X-COM Enemy Within: MECs and Gene Mods

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Wasn't sure which forum I should post this in given the subject matter. For those unfamiliar with the premise, this is the gist of it:

Threatened by an unknown enemy, the Earth’s governments unite to form an elite paramilitary organization, known as XCOM, to combat this extraterrestrial attack. As the commander of XCOM, you control the global defense team in a battle against a terrifying alien invasion by creating a fully operational base, researching alien technologies, planning combat missions, and controlling soldier movement in battle.

Anyway, what I'm wondering about is the ethical issues raised in the creation of MECs and Gene Mods. Since this is set in the present day, would the modifications that MEC troopers (and to a lesser extent Gene Modded soldiers) raise ethical objections, or would such questions be swept aside given all of this is happening during an alien invasion?

• MECs
  
  Gene Mods

[Dominus Atheos]

Why do you think MEC soldiers would be more ethically objectionable then gene mods? Right now, genetic modification is considered way more controversial than cybernetics.

Anyway, humanity has shown it is willing to tolerate some pretty objectionable things during wartime or to fight a perceived enemy, torture as an interrogation method being the first one that comes to mind.

[Grumman]

Why do you think MEC soldiers would be more ethically objectionable then gene mods? Right now, genetic modification is considered way more controversial than cybernetics.

The gene mods in XCOM are changes of the "strictly better" sort. You give someone the ability to jump two stories, and the only obvious downside is that they can't also have a bone marrow gene mod to make themselves even more awesome. As such, unless you are forcing your troops to be subjected to this medical procedure and not just asking for volunteers (and when you're basically offering to turn them into superheroes, finding volunteers isn't going to be difficult) or there is some kind of side effect which is not mentioned in the game, gene mods are not an ethical problem.

MEC soldiers are more problematic because the soldiers actually lose something: their limbs. You're not just talking about finding a soldier who had their leg blown off and giving them a new bionic leg, but removing healthy limbs so that they can use the MEC. They also receive ordinary bionics for use while not piloting the mecha, but there's a variety of reasons why those artificial limbs might not be as good as the originals. If nothing else, it would be necessary to work much harder to obtain informed consent for the procedure.

[Simon_Jester]

Full public knowledge of the genetic modifications might make people uncomfortable because the DNA is being derived from aliens- we don't really know everything it does. We think it's good for you, but it might cause carcinogenic effects or something weird like that over the long run. And by introducing it to our soldiers in the war on the aliens, we may be risking introducing it to the entire human gene pool.

Whereas with the MEC troopers, at least we know what we (and they) are getting into.

[Zixinus]

And to an extent, they are justifiable, especially if you made no real ethical commitment to not do the horrible acts you are to do. If the aliens refuse to stop attacking humanity for anything less than a total surrender, you are not obligated to be nice to them.

Now I have the DLC but I haven't played it yet (I want to finish Xenonauts first). One big question: do the soldiers volunteer for it? Were they told of the insane risks involved?

Because if they do (and they likely could be persuaded to if not jump at the chance), then there is no inherent ethical issue. What happened to the soldier was done by his consent. If it legitimately raises his chances in combat then he gained these things, whether given cybernetic or biological augmentations, with legitimate use.

If you want to look for possible arguments: is XCOM making a fund so the the veterans of this war are cared for, complete with their augmentations? Will the soldier be allowed to keep his augmentation or will he get a nerfed one that would put him on par with unaugmented humans? If the latter is impossible, what then?

The real ethics of the issue comes once the emergency is over. The reason why different ethics apply to an emergency is that your choices are limited and finite in scope.

[Nephtys]

XCOM is nominally asking for volunteers to go through any of their processes, as briefly covered by voice-over when this tech becomes available.

The question of MECs is pretty straightforward: Get a voluntary quadruple amputation, robot arms and legs so you can walk, and the option to remove those prothesis to strap into a killer robot powersuit. It's a bit sketchy ethically only on the grounds of horribly mutilating a person, then injecting them with alien nanomachines to build the neural interfaces.
Since you can put critically injured soldiers through the MEC process, it could be seen a bit more positively that way. You could concievably put a paraplegic or a guy with no legs through the chopper, then he gets the best prosthetics ever made (you see MEC soldiers running on treadmills), and continuing to fight against the aliens. Post-War, life would be weird but they can go home with their Adam Jensen legs and arms.

For the Gene-mod troopers, it's a bit shadier. Since you're literally doing gene therapy with alien tissues that get stitched into the volunteers by the meld nano-bots. Who knows what kind of side effects come with that in the long term? Likewise, unlike MECs, after the war you can't 'disarm' the guy who can bound two stories, or has adaptive skin. A few are probably not dangerous (improved bone marrow, secondary heart), but would be weird and require them to be under constant monitoring. They'd also likely be prohibited from having kids..

The real ethically difficult thing is actually Psionic trained troops. They can literally cause hallucinations, mind control, and fatal brain damage /at any time/. After the war, they're extremely dangerous individuals who cannot be 'disarmed'. While this is apparently a latent human ability which only requires very special training/techniques to bring out, it stands to change a lot more in society than the others.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

That's the thing, the base augments are exactly that. While it's assumed they'll allow MEC troopers to resume normal lives after the war, it's going to be pretty damn hard to fit into the rest of society unless they at least look and function like normal limbs. It could be assumed the base augments are only worn on the base, and when off-base they have a more 'normal' set.

Unlike the MEC process, it seems that Gene Mods can actually be reversed since a modded trooper that gets augmented loses all their mods, and that Gene mods can be swapped between the two available options.

Re: Psionics, that would potentially be a problem since it's technically revealing a hiterto unknown innate ability, it seems the psionic labs somehow unlocks these capabilities and makes you wonder how long it will be before random civilians start manifesting them. You would hope that those who join X-com are psychologically screened so that any who are likely to abuse their abilities will not be allowed to join.

Of course since many join before the discovery of Psionics and Meld this isn't always guaranteed.

[Simon_Jester]

If I were X-COM and I found one of my soldiers that was likely to abuse their psychic abilities, I'd be sorely tempted to have them quietly removed. Say, sent to apprehend a roid-raging Muton with a cattle prod.

[Ahriman238]

I'm not terribly familiar with the X-Com universe but I suspect both would happen. People who think about it will raise ethical questions and consider long-term ramifications like reproduction and civilian life after the crisis, and will then be told to shut up because we're in a war for our very survival.

[Irbis]

The gene mods in XCOM are changes of the "strictly better" sort. You give someone the ability to jump two stories, and the only obvious downside is that they can't also have a bone marrow gene mod to make themselves even more awesome. As such, unless you are forcing your troops to be subjected to this medical procedure and not just asking for volunteers (and when you're basically offering to turn them into superheroes, finding volunteers isn't going to be difficult) or there is some kind of side effect which is not mentioned in the game, gene mods are not an ethical problem.

MEC soldiers are more problematic because the soldiers actually lose something: their limbs. You're not just talking about finding a soldier who had their leg blown off and giving them a new bionic leg, but removing healthy limbs so that they can use the MEC. They also receive ordinary bionics for use while not piloting the mecha, but there's a variety of reasons why those artificial limbs might not be as good as the originals. If nothing else, it would be necessary to work much harder to obtain informed consent for the procedure.

Um, pardon? How is MEC problematic? There are literally millions of people on Earth that would beg for a chance of trying one. Military trained, experienced veterans of relatively young age? Trivial, just call nearest Iraq/Afghan IED survivors support centre. Who sane would pick wheelchair over limbs better than natural ones, especially people who were once fit enough to get into elite expeditionary units?

Even if the process had to be done on someone who has intact limbs, the research video plainly shows that makeshift, jury-rigged Xcom tech limbs work exactly the same as natural ones. You can see these people walk around the base doing the exact same stuff as unaugumented soldiers.

True, game says they can't be sent into battle as infantry, but never precises why. Even if it's caused by purely motorical reasons, all it means augmented human isn't up to the level of 99 best special forces soldiers on Earth, hardly a worthwhile mark to aspire to. And even then, it's true now. With tech advances Xcom is making all the time, for all we know in 2-3 years augmented soldiers will have Luke Skywalker level unnoticeable prostheses, or cloned limbs if they fancy them. It's not like limb transplant is unknown tech even in far off future of 2010

What there would be real problem with is gene mods. You're basically making people into half-aliens, using their genetic research and special anti-immune system nanomachines stopping both parts of resulting organism from killing each other. And it's far more serious than limb amputation - we're talking about eye and skin replacement, complete rearranging of internal organs, host of changes that give us something that can barely be called human anymore. Hell, brain surgery. How is that acceptable to people when above isn't?

When you say that people with metal arms will have problems fitting into society despite being able to use such advanced tech as clothes to hide them, what can you say about people with completely alien eyes and color changing skin? EXALT soldiers are said to be final destination of gene modded human and even Xcom troopers dealing with aliens and MECs on daily basis see them as extremely disturbing. How would civil society react? Ebola scares have nothing on what you can smear a half alien with.

Now I have the DLC but I haven't played it yet (I want to finish Xenonauts first). One big question: do the soldiers volunteer for it? Were they told of the insane risks involved?

In theory, yes, but in game, everything is done at the whim of Xcom leader. For example, MEC interferes with psionics so most players feed talent-less rejects of the psionic search into MEC suits.

[Grumman]

Um, pardon? How is MEC problematic? There are literally millions of people on Earth that would beg for a chance of trying one.

One. Not four. The technology behind MEC troopers is obviously a huge step forwards for people who need prosthetics, but the extent of the prosthesis required to actually become a MEC trooper comes at a cost to all but the most severely injured.

Even if the process had to be done on someone who has intact limbs, the research video plainly shows that makeshift, jury-rigged Xcom tech limbs work exactly the same as natural ones. You can see these people walk around the base doing the exact same stuff as unaugumented soldiers.

Does the prosthetic limb provide the same feedback as a natural limb? Does it draw power from the user by some kind of blood sugar fuel cell or from a nigh-inexhaustible reactor, or does the soldier become dependent on plug-in chargers for the rest of their life? There are ways that possessing prosthetics rather than your natural limbs may adversely affect your quality of life without being obvious just by watching someone run on a treadmill. That is what I'd be concerned about.

[Broomstick]

That's the thing, the base augments are exactly that. While it's assumed they'll allow MEC troopers to resume normal lives after the war, it's going to be pretty damn hard to fit into the rest of society unless they at least look and function like normal limbs.

Are you sure about that? Have you seen some of the artificial legs and arms we're actually using right now? Well, OK, the functionality needs to be at a certain level but current prosthetics while more functional actually look less realistic than a generation or two ago, yet if anything are more accepted by the public. Obvious metal and plastic, wild colors, flags, various designs...

Apparently our society (well, current US society at least) doesn't have much problem with war veterans and visibly artificial limbs. In fact, the more functional they are the less problem people seem to have with an artificial appearance.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

That's the thing, the base augments are exactly that. While it's assumed they'll allow MEC troopers to resume normal lives after the war, it's going to be pretty damn hard to fit into the rest of society unless they at least look and function like normal limbs.

Are you sure about that? Have you seen some of the artificial legs and arms we're actually using right now? Well, OK, the functionality needs to be at a certain level but current prosthetics while more functional actually look less realistic than a generation or two ago, yet if anything are more accepted by the public. Obvious metal and plastic, wild colors, flags, various designs...

Apparently our society (well, current US society at least) doesn't have much problem with war veterans and visibly artificial limbs. In fact, the more functional they are the less problem people seem to have with an artificial appearance.

Thing is, being based on alien tech and materials the base augments look and function very differently to their current real-world counterparts. It's also more than just having all 4 limbs replaced (augmenting injured combat veterans is far less of a moral grey area than doing the same with someone who has four otherwise healthy limbs), other changes are made too. From the web page:

MEC Troopers use a different set of voices (2 per gender), all emotionless, deeper, filtered ("robotic") and using more formal lexicon; except for special characters (such as Zhang), who keep their original voices.

This implies that other, unseen things have been done in addition, and raises the question of whether they can still have children. In many ways they're one step short of what they did with Robocop in the remake.

Does it draw power from the user by some kind of blood sugar fuel cell or from a nigh-inexhaustible reactor, or does the soldier become dependent on plug-in chargers for the rest of their life? There are ways that possessing prosthetics rather than your natural limbs may adversely affect your quality of life without being obvious just by watching someone run on a treadmill. That is what I'd be concerned about.

The power source problem could be hand-waved as using the same Elerium that is consumed when building other alien-inspired tech, however neither the creation of MEC suits nor the augmentation process actually consumes the material, unlike other projects.

The fact that gene-mod abilities can be swapped at any time (as opposed to being permanent like with rank-based abilities), and are in fact lost when such a soldier is augmented means that they must be reversible. The problem is that not all soldiers are going to be happy with giving up their GM abilities after the war ends.

[Grumman]

It's also more than just having all 4 limbs replaced (augmenting injured combat veterans is far less of a moral grey area than doing the same with someone who has four otherwise healthy limbs), other changes are made too. From the web page:

MEC Troopers use a different set of voices (2 per gender), all emotionless, deeper, filtered ("robotic") and using more formal lexicon; except for special characters (such as Zhang), who keep their original voices.

This implies that other, unseen things have been done in addition, and raises the question of whether they can still have children. In many ways they're one step short of what they did with Robocop in the remake.

Personally, I write that off as one of a number of stupid design decisions made by the game designers. New voices for MEC troopers, sleeveless uniforms for gene-modded troopers and new armour for female troopers should all have been options, instead of being forced on the player. I realise that just declaring things uncanon isn't for everyone, but there you go.

The problem is that not all soldiers are going to be happy with giving up their GM abilities after the war ends.

Really, there's no issue with letting the soldier keep most of the gene mods. The brain augments are defensive in nature and protect you against psionic attack. The eye augments just improve your sight. Secondary Heart and Adaptive Bone Marrow are again purely defensive, and letting the soldiers keep augments designed to keep them healthy would be good form. Adrenal Neurosympathy, Bioelectric Skin, Muscle Fiber Density and Mimetic Skin are the only ones where this should even be a question.

[Irbis]

One. Not four. The technology behind MEC troopers is obviously a huge step forwards for people who need prosthetics, but the extent of the prosthesis required to actually become a MEC trooper comes at a cost to all but the most severely injured.

IED survivors often lose 2-4 limbs, not just one. But still, even if you had to cut off one or two remaining limbs to regain all four, I suspect a lot of people would take that deal. Robotic arm sure as hell beats staring at impassable barrier of 40 cm three stair climb and wondering if you should beg someone to push you or just turn around.

You may take your walking ability for granted, but after I took 10 min trial in wheelchair in local minority viewpoint fair I wonder how these people are coping with it. Even walking down/up the curb is torture, one giving you powerful kick, the other being horrible load on your arms and spine. I like to think I am relatively fit person, yet I was only able to do one jump. Cobblestone sidewalk? No thanks. Everything beats it.

Does the prosthetic limb provide the same feedback as a natural limb? Does it draw power from the user by some kind of blood sugar fuel cell or from a nigh-inexhaustible reactor, or does the soldier become dependent on plug-in chargers for the rest of their life? There are ways that possessing prosthetics rather than your natural limbs may adversely affect your quality of life without being obvious just by watching someone run on a treadmill. That is what I'd be concerned about.

These are much better points for the viability of the procedure, but still, most of them are counterable to big degree. Even if you had to charge robotic limb every few days, we still have a lot of people today who have to do that too (hearing aids, pacemakers, lightwriters) and would never go back.

Thing is, being based on alien tech and materials the base augments look and function very differently to their current real-world counterparts. It's also more than just having all 4 limbs replaced (augmenting injured combat veterans is far less of a moral grey area than doing the same with someone who has four otherwise healthy limbs), other changes are made too. From the web page:

MEC Troopers use a different set of voices (2 per gender), all emotionless, deeper, filtered ("robotic") and using more formal lexicon; except for special characters (such as Zhang), who keep their original voices.

This implies that other, unseen things have been done in addition, and raises the question of whether they can still have children. In many ways they're one step short of what they did with Robocop in the remake.

Except, the effect is purely cosmetic and the game states that the soldiers will be able to return to civilian life even with makeshift limbs Xcom quickly jury rigged for them, much less post war versions. It states no such thing for augmented soldiers.

Also, take a look at gallery at the bottom in the gene mods page. You raise maintenance issues with MECs, what about mods? Not only these Xcom soldiers look unnatural (and uncanny valley effect is much stronger with something looking like human hybrid than robotic arms), they are full of implants and need to spend time attached to tubes - presumably pumping meld nanobots into them to not, you know, have them be torn from inside by their immune system. Which I imagine can't be too friendly to alien cells.

Imagine someone having both incurable AIDS and heavy flu only kept in check by medicine and it might still be better than being augmented unless the soldier in question is so deeply modified he is no longer human.

As for children, well, even if for some reason you had to cut relevant bits, which we don't know is the case at all, you can always keep frozen sperm or eggs. I'd be much more worried about alien cells in blood of augmented soldiers when it comes to reproduction.

The fact that gene-mod abilities can be swapped at any time (as opposed to being permanent like with rank-based abilities), and are in fact lost when such a soldier is augmented means that they must be reversible. The problem is that not all soldiers are going to be happy with giving up their GM abilities after the war ends.

Why are you guys taking game balance mechanism in one case and treat it like solving all problems while not allowing it for the other?

Yes, MECs remove augments, but it's done so that the player doesn't create PsiAugMEC soldiers demolishing everything in sight. MEC conversion removes other things, too, like MEC snipers suddenly losing ability to headshot (though interestingly they keep their higher accuracy stat) or fire long distances without accuracy loss - despite having unerring limb precision and sensors.

Arguing augments are removable because MEC don't have them is thus silly, doubly so because you guys are taking second, much further leap stating "then they of course are perfectly removable without MEC conversion, too!". What if converting soldier to MEC and replacing augments with implants is the only way to remove them? Requiring "disarming" process being forced on perfectly (even beyond perfectly) healthy human? And correct me if I am wrong, IIRC you can swap augments but you always need an augment in that spot making them as removable as artificial heart - we can swap these around, too.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

From what we can see, the augmented soldiers are only attached to tubes when initially receiving meld/gene mod treatments. The issue of rejection goes both ways- both the MEC implants and the Gene Mod ones will have the same problem.

What isn't known is whether the soldiers that receive them need further infusions of Meld after the actual conversion or once is enough; there's no mention of the meld nanites themselves being self-replicating/repairing to replace those that are lost through wear-and-tear or injury; on the other hand it's stated the troops can resume normal lives afterward. However if they still need periodic injections of the substance it's going to become a serious problem since currently, much like Elerium and Alien Alloys, the only way to obtain more is recovering it from the aliens.

[Lord of the Abyss]

That's the thing, the base augments are exactly that. While it's assumed they'll allow MEC troopers to resume normal lives after the war, it's going to be pretty damn hard to fit into the rest of society unless they at least look and function like normal limbs.

Are you sure about that? Have you seen some of the artificial legs and arms we're actually using right now? Well, OK, the functionality needs to be at a certain level but current prosthetics while more functional actually look less realistic than a generation or two ago, yet if anything are more accepted by the public. Obvious metal and plastic, wild colors, flags, various designs...

Apparently our society (well, current US society at least) doesn't have much problem with war veterans and visibly artificial limbs. In fact, the more functional they are the less problem people seem to have with an artificial appearance.

I recall a discussion on this matter (on another forum I think) where a doctor commented on the "Terminator effect". People who grew up having watched Terminator tended to be enthusiastic about having obviously mechanical prostheses, the more obviously nonhuman the better. Pre-Terminator people wanted a prosthesis that looked as close to human as possible.

[bilateralrope]

I've been holding off making this post until I finished Enemy Within.

I'm pretty sure that EXALT would still exist after the aliens are dealt with. While XCOM did raid their base and hit them pretty hard, I saw nothing to suggest that it ended EXALT. Or even touched their leaders and/or whoever was backing them. At most XCOM hit them hard enough to leave XCOM alone and reconsider their tactics.

Which makes me wonder how many XCOM soldiers will be fighting EXALT after the aliens are gone. Even if they don't want to, because someone decided that pressuring them into fighting is a worthwhile sacrifice for the War on Terror.

Were they told of the insane risks involved?

Think of the risks that baseline soldiers are exposed to. How many unknown substances are the soldiers likely to inhale at a UFO crash site ?

Mind control is an ability of the aliens that was shown in the very first mission. Being forced to kill squadmates can't be good for their mental health. But that's one of the risks each soldier faces. They might get mind controlled, or forced to kill a mind controlled squadmate.

Meld might be one of the less insane risks because at least it got studied a bit before soldiers got exposed to it. Though I do wonder if it was tested on other humans before it was given to XCOM soldiers. Would it be more moral if the first human testing was on the XCOM solders or on a volunteer who is not expected to see combat ?

If you want to look for possible arguments: is XCOM making a fund so the the veterans of this war are cared for, complete with their augmentations? Will the soldier be allowed to keep his augmentation or will he get a nerfed one that would put him on par with unaugmented humans? If the latter is impossible, what then?

The real ethics of the issue comes once the emergency is over. The reason why different ethics apply to an emergency is that your choices are limited and finite in scope.

I don't think anyone at XCOM put much thought into what happens to them after the war. They were all too focused on dealing with the aliens.

That's the thing, the base augments are exactly that. While it's assumed they'll allow MEC troopers to resume normal lives after the war, it's going to be pretty damn hard to fit into the rest of society unless they at least look and function like normal limbs. It could be assumed the base augments are only worn on the base, and when off-base they have a more 'normal' set.

There is another option. The limbs remain obviously artificial, but something special is done with their limbs to make the person as having lost their flesh limbs during the fight against the aliens.

Re: Psionics, that would potentially be a problem since it's technically revealing a hiterto unknown innate ability, it seems the psionic labs somehow unlocks these capabilities and makes you wonder how long it will be before random civilians start manifesting them.

Since nobody has spontaneously manifested psionic abilities before the invasion, I doubt it's something humans can spontaneously manifest. But someone building their own Psi labs to test people is a concern.

Exalt knew enough about psionics that they were willing to fight the aliens over 4 humans known to be psionics, even if they didn't know enough to cause someone to manifest their abilities. Or maybe they didn't trust anyone enough to test them.

You would hope that those who join X-com are psychologically screened so that any who are likely to abuse their abilities will not be allowed to join.

Comparing the cost of a new soldier to things like the cost of a new interceptor and I'd hope that some psychological screening is included in the cost.

On the other hand, we do have Zhang and Durand. Zhang is described as a "high-ranking Triad enforcer" and, after giving you a bit of help fighting aliens in one mission, he gets recruited as an XCOM soldier. Durand gets recruited as a soldier when all you know about her is that the aliens really wanted her and her friends for use as a weapon, plus she has something unusual with her brain. Both get recruited as XCOM soldiers without any complaint from NPCs.

When you say that people with metal arms will have problems fitting into society despite being able to use such advanced tech as clothes to hide them, what can you say about people with completely alien eyes and color changing skin? EXALT soldiers are said to be final destination of gene modded human and even Xcom troopers dealing with aliens and MECs on daily basis see them as extremely disturbing. How would civil society react? Ebola scares have nothing on what you can smear a half alien with.

Are EXALT soldiers really the final destination of gene modding, or are they just the results of low cost gene modding ?

Or just a side effect of specific gene mods ?

The elite heavies have blotches over their skin and clothes. The elite medics have a green tinge to their skin. The elite operative and sniper look like healthy humans.