Star Wars: Rebels

[NecronLord]

Anyone remember that Clone Wars episode where another cloaked ship was evading a bigger warship? There the commander of the latter first ordered to blanket the area with fire and then quickly devised a counter-measure by adjusting torpedoes to lock onto the cloaked ship's magnetic signature. Too bad the Empire doesn't employ those Spider people, huh?

General Tranch is a literal hero of the clone wars on the seperatist side. (He is even perhaps the only seperatist hero we know of who didn't personally order warcrimes) I don't expect the commanders of random star destroyers to be anything like as tactically astute as he was; nor should they be in universe. Note, after all, the republic expected their stealth ship to work, only Tranch's orders and instincts prevented it.

[Borgholio]

Yes, which is why the main films, set when the Empire has consolitated its rule to the point it can blow planets away, are obviously far too dark and scary for kids.

One word. Ewok.

[Metahive]

General Tranch is a literal hero of the clone wars on the seperatist side. (He is even perhaps the only seperatist hero we know of who didn't personally order warcrimes) I don't expect the commanders of random star destroyers to be anything like as tactically astute as he was; nor should they be in universe. Note, after all, the republic expected their stealth ship to work, only Tranch's orders and instincts prevented it.

I' know that there are possible Watsonian justifications for this but I just think the heroes having to overcome a dangerous and competent foe is more gratifying and suspenseful than them besting a bumbling buffoon.

[NecronLord]

I agree, but as I said way back, that's setting the expectations rather high.

[Adam Reynolds]

Yes, which is why the main films, set when the Empire has consolitated its rule to the point it can blow planets away, are obviously far too dark and scary for kids.

But the point was that thematically this was supposed to be an era in which the light was beginning to return to the galaxy. It wasn't called A New Hope for nothing. And regardless, the Empire was somewhat threatening in the movies. Even with the comedy during the escape from the Death Star, there was still something of a sense of danger despite the adventure. There also wasn't a little kid with a slingshot shooting at stormtroopers.

[Mange]

I can only echo Rogue 9. Even with the never previously mentioned scanner scrambler (it would have come pretty handy on the Falcon), I think the opening movie (which I stumbled across on pure chance) was pretty dumb. And Kessel? Isn't that supposed to be a heavily fortified prison planet? Yet it seemed as if it was manned by a single squad and no defenses of any kind. Are TIE-fighters spitting on their targets? The character art looked awful, the locations didn't look alive and the animation wasn't very smooth.

The ISD and Kessel issues took me out of the story completely. On the plus side, some of the characters were pretty likeable (though I couldn't stand the kid with the slingshot, another awful idea).

[NecronLord]

And Kessel? Isn't that supposed to be a heavily fortified prison planet? Yet it seemed as if it was manned by a single squad and no defenses of any kind.

I never got the idea it was heavily fortified. And FWIW, I would expect Kessel's guards to be literally the Empire's worst soldiers. In the real world, an entire concentration camp full of SS guards surrendered when they saw two Americans in a Jeep, one driving, one firing pistols, after all. Guarding prisoners is often done by the lest able soldiers.

[AndroAsc]

So, why did C-3PO called the empire for help? It doesn't make sense. At first I thought maybe he got memory wiped, but at the end we see the droids returned to a Blockade Runner (rebel sympathizers?)

[RogueIce]

Well...
Spoiler

Bail Organa is an Imperial Senator still, and C-3PO reacts somewhat surprised when R2 mentioned the 'secret mission' bit just before they boarded the Ghost. Which means he was probably in the dark and did think he was on legitimate Imperial business, from an Imperial Senator, to assist an Imperial Minister. So of course he'd call the Empire for help.

I wonder what Organa's original plan was for those disruptors now.

[Darth Tanner]

Pretty meh... I'll see how it goes but you can tell it has gone back to the early clone wars season with writing and content aimed at getting in the kids. It is a cartoon after all so can't really complain if its not adult enough... but its pretty idiotic at the minute.

In the real world, an entire concentration camp full of SS guards surrendered when they saw two Americans in a Jeep, one driving, one firing pistols, after all. Guarding prisoners is often done by the lest able soldiers.

By the time the allies were getting to concentration camps though the war was pretty much over... this is a galaxy famous spice mine full of prisoners condemned to work to death and its got maybe a dozen guards and three ties... and the ties might well have been there with the ISB.

I'd agree, it sucked indeed, I was particularly mindfucked by the bit with Ezra hiding underneath the stairs in the cell.

Yes that was a bit out there is how stupid it was... I don't remember even the battle droids being that out there comical stupid or a lack of a threat... but then they had plenty of nameless clones to kill to at least do something other than miss. When an entire platoon of troopers can be taken out by picking up two of those troopers and throwing them at you in full view its a bit difficult to care if their shooting at you or not.

[Rogue 9]

What kind of TV schedule are they playing the series on, anyway? All I've seen so far just says it starts next Monday, but is it a five night a week schedule?

[Metahive]

And Kessel? Isn't that supposed to be a heavily fortified prison planet? Yet it seemed as if it was manned by a single squad and no defenses of any kind.

I never got the idea it was heavily fortified. And FWIW, I would expect Kessel's guards to be literally the Empire's worst soldiers. In the real world, an entire concentration camp full of SS guards surrendered when they saw two Americans in a Jeep, one driving, one firing pistols, after all. Guarding prisoners is often done by the lest able soldiers.

Remember the jailbreak episode of Clone Wars where rescuing a prisoner from the facility was a fairly major operation and the enemy dangerously competent to the point of killing an important character?

Did anyone have problems with that?

[Darth Tanner]

Just out of random I thought I'd make a quick list of stupidity so far...

Kid has a sling shot more damaging than the soldiers weapons - it hits a panel and causes an explosion taking out an entire storm trooper squad!
Stormtroopers are idiots, they literally can not hit people stood directly in front of them at point blank range, they stand out in the open or even form firing lines ignoring all targets except the ones directly in front of them, they make no effort to use any cover, they run into prison cells and then just look stumped while their prisoner taunts them directly in front of them while they are holding rifles.
Searching a prisoner means taking his arm band computer and backpack but making no other effort to search him.
Starving people kicked off their land still have wrist computers but can not afford food.
Stormtroopers do not have magnetic boots... or at least can not activate them without notice.
All trade must be Imperial sanctioned... essentially you have to get a licence from the galactic Federal government/UN level to sell fruit on the street.... the admin burden must be horrendous!
Tarkin is apparently kicking dozens of people off their land... when we see that the planet is barely populated outside of the main city... its all barren grassland.
Star Destroyer prison cells have a convenient hiding place directly under the stairs that the guards don't check when running headlong into an empty room.
There are only 2 storm troopers in the entire prison block as well as an armoury to really get a prison riot going!
Star Destroyer comms are open to everyone with a helmet with no encryption or restrictions on a simple soldier hearing shipping plans for slaves from the captain.
Imperial comms are so open and lacking authentication that a child can make up instructions and be obeyed by officers and senior ISB officers with no question.
Star Destroyers can not detect a freighter until its actually landing inside its main bay... which is also left completely unmanned.
Star Destroyers can have their tractor beams jammed.
Major prison/death camps have around a dozen guards and no means by which to stop random freighters just dropping by.
Even small freighters, let alone Star Destroyers are riddled with man sized air shafts for prisoners to escape through.
The Empire sends a senior ambassador on a civilian passenger shuttle that anyone can apparently walk onto to negotiate collection of secret prototype weapons. It also relies on an alien to build these prototypes after apparently already having enough of these weapons to destroy an entire species with them years before.
There is a rifle capable of taking down armoured walkers in one shot... but we won't see that again because maybe a dozen of them were destroyed one time.

[RogueIce]

What kind of TV schedule are they playing the series on, anyway? All I've seen so far just says it starts next Monday, but is it a five night a week schedule?

AFAIK it's only Monday nights. It's just that the second episode was released early (and for free!) on iTunes and presumably available on WatchDisneyXD.com as well.

EDIT: As of this post it's still Free, so if you've got an iTunes account go grab it while you can. Though the usual caveats about it probably being region-dependent probably applies, so don't get mad at me if you can't get it outside the US.

[Burak Gazan]

Kid has a sling shot more damaging than the soldiers weapons - it hits a panel and causes an explosion taking out an entire storm trooper squad!

The cute kid with a freaking slingshot alone likely can kill this thing. Didn't these retards learn anything from TNG S1 Krush Wesley??

[NecronLord]

And Kessel? Isn't that supposed to be a heavily fortified prison planet? Yet it seemed as if it was manned by a single squad and no defenses of any kind.

I never got the idea it was heavily fortified. And FWIW, I would expect Kessel's guards to be literally the Empire's worst soldiers. In the real world, an entire concentration camp full of SS guards surrendered when they saw two Americans in a Jeep, one driving, one firing pistols, after all. Guarding prisoners is often done by the lest able soldiers.

Remember the jailbreak episode of Clone Wars where rescuing a prisoner from the facility was a fairly major operation and the enemy dangerously competent to the point of killing an important character?

Did anyone have problems with that?

Here's the thing.

The Citadel is renowned for being escape proof, built to hold jedi, and so on. It is said to be heavily fortified. Kessel is said to be a hell-hole.

Please, do find me a canon source talking about the fearsome defenses of Kessel? Because being brutal is not the same as being fortified. In the Gulag, at some points, there were sufficient runaways for there to be local bounties posted to round up escapees. Brutality does not equal security. Kessel is hellish, that doesn't mean it is badass or secure.

[Lord Revan]

also the guy they had to rescue from the Citadel was senior member of the Jedi Order (aka a high value prisoner) while the prisoners saved from Kessel were as far as we know just some random wookiees aka low value prisoners, you're gonna invest alot more to hold a high value prisoner (even 1) then you're gonna invest on holding a bunch of low value prisoners.

[NecronLord]

All trade must be Imperial sanctioned... essentially you have to get a licence from the galactic Federal government/UN level to sell fruit on the street.... the admin burden must be horrendous!

This is the case for the United Kingdom IRL. I have, in my professional life IRL, been one of the civil servants involved in this. Yes, it is horrendous. It is also an activity that pays for itself, if you are levying a sales tax. Surprisingly, grabbing money off people, while it imposes a cost, also raises revenue. Who knew.

Tarkin is apparently kicking dozens of people off their land... when we see that the planet is barely populated outside of the main city... its all barren grassland.

Just like, Soviet Russia, where the state did exactly that? You'll find the policies of oppressive governments (such as the 'evil Galactic Empire') do not always match up with their PR about being efficient.

The Empire sends a senior ambassador on a civilian passenger shuttle that anyone can apparently walk onto to negotiate collection of secret prototype weapons. It also relies on an alien to build these prototypes after apparently already having enough of these weapons to destroy an entire species with them years before.

Did you miss that the senate had banned the weapons, and she was trying to keep her illegal arms deal on the downlow? Don't get me wrong, it seems wonky for a minister to talk about this on a bus, but if you want to set up an illegal manufacture operation, you have to go where your criminal contact feels safe, not just you, that might just be... a public place, eh?

There is a rifle capable of taking down armoured walkers in one shot... but we won't see that again because maybe a dozen of them were destroyed one time.

Because the Imperial Senate has banned them. If the Senate makes their manufacture legal again, then no doubt they could arrange legitimate manufacture.

[NecronLord]

Ga. police shut down girls' lemonade stand

Clearly the US is a stupid, empire-esque state, for requiring peddler's permits and business licenses.

[applejack]

Kid has a sling shot more damaging than the soldiers weapons - it hits a panel and causes an explosion taking out an entire storm trooper squad!

IIRC, Kanan or Zeb had placed a small detonator to blow out the control panel. That's what Ezra hit with his sling shot, which blew up and knocked down the stormies.

[Metahive]

Here's the thing.

The Citadel is renowned for being escape proof, built to hold jedi, and so on. It is said to be heavily fortified. Kessel is said to be a hell-hole.

Please, do find me a canon source talking about the fearsome defenses of Kessel? Because being brutal is not the same as being fortified. In the Gulag, at some points, there were sufficient runaways for there to be local bounties posted to round up escapees. Brutality does not equal security. Kessel is hellish, that doesn't mean it is badass or secure.

You're still not understanding me. I'm not concerned with canonicity, they could easily work in an explanation like "security was strongly increased in and around Kessel recently" or something for that, I'm concerned about getting a good story and there a suspenseful prison break beats effortless, chidlish bullshit any day.

[Darth Tanner]

That's what Ezra hit with his sling shot, which blew up and knocked down the stormies.

Ah I missed that - makes more sense.

Clearly the US is a stupid, empire-esque state, for requiring peddler's permits and business licenses.

Licences issued by the local council/state - the comparative here is having to get a licence from the UN... or the level above that if we had such a thing. This is before the senate has been dissolved and the Empire has taken direct military rule of its planets - the civilian governments are still in power at this time. But as you say totalitarian governments are not exactly know for efficiency and reasonable limits on power so fair point.

Did you miss that the senate had banned the weapons

They don't seem to care enough that using them to wipe out an entire species that would inevitably get out to the senate would matter (it was common knowledge they were used against that species). Also there must be a manufacturing of sufficient of them that they could be issued on a scale to be used planet wide.

How is sending one of your military shuttles with a crew you can rely on to keep quiet to do the ferrying any more risky than using the bus. The supplier already knows he is working for the empire... being on a bus or an imperial shuttle makes little difference when he is greeted by a squad of troopers anyway.

They would also have been useful in the OT where the senate no longer exists.

[NecronLord]

They don't seem to care enough that using them to wipe out an entire species that would inevitably get out to the senate would matter (it was common knowledge they were used against that species). Also there must be a manufacturing of sufficient of them that they could be issued on a scale to be used planet wide.

How is sending one of your military shuttles with a crew you can rely on to keep quiet to do the ferrying any more risky than using the bus. The supplier already knows he is working for the empire... being on a bus or an imperial shuttle makes little difference when he is greeted by a squad of troopers anyway.

They would also have been useful in the OT where the senate no longer exists.

The impression I got was that they were used to destroy the Lesat homeworld and then they were banned by the senate, and that the Imperial Minister (I didn't catch her name) wanted to restart production illegally for her own reasons.

Therefore, the bare minimum of escort; some droids that can't be traced to her, and some local stormtroopers who don't really know what's going on with the sealed crates, the stormtroopers don't immediately arrest her or anything, but there's no reason they'd believe a random suspected thief anyway, is there? All they know is they're escorting an Imperial official to collect some crates.

[NecronLord]

It's worth noting that the actual disruptor model seems to come from one of the old Legacy games, SW Galaxies, and old fluff also said that the Empire kept them banned but issued permission for imperial security agents (like, say, Kallus) to use them.

Another incidence of them taking from the old EU, I assume.

Another thing I like, is the appearance that the rebels are not (yet?) part of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. I assume a future episode might feature that.


I do like that when we see petty cruelty from the Empire, people object.
And when we see diplomatic wrangling in the prequels, people also object!

[Rogue 9]

The petty cruelty I can stand (though Kallus [STILL CAN'T BELIEVE THEY NAMED HIM THAT!] in the first episode was a bit over the top cartoonishly evil). It's the incompetence. Why can't the stormtroopers hit anything? Why does the Star Destroyer still not shoot?