Ultimate Retaliation

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Will the US retaliate with nuclear weapons if attacked with chemical weapons?

Poll ended at 2003-03-24 03:11pm

Yes.
19
41%
No.
27
59%
 
Total votes: 46

User avatar
jegs2
Imperial Spook
Posts: 4782
Joined: 2002-08-22 06:23pm
Location: Alabama

Ultimate Retaliation

Post by jegs2 »

“It would be a hugely bad choice on the part of any Iraqi leader or commander to employ chemical weapons,” [LTG] McKiernan said.
Asked what the response would be to such an attack, McKiernan simply replied “dramatic.”

from this article: http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CA01
John 3:16-18
Warwolves G2
The University of North Alabama Lions!
User avatar
Stravo
Official SD.Net Teller of Tales
Posts: 12806
Joined: 2002-07-08 12:06pm
Location: NYC

Post by Stravo »

Considering that the only real targets for our neuclear weapons would be population centers I have to regrettably say no. Its one thing if back in the first gulf war he used them, then we could have launched a tactical nuke strike on the massed Republican guards in the desert, quite another to make Baghdad go up in nuclear fire.

I would say no, simply repsond with massive force, unlrelenting bombing and a take no prisoners attitude. Punishment must be taken out on the MILITARY if such an action occurs and NOT the civilian population.

And of course, any and all officers must be executed as war cirminals when they lose and lose they will.
Wherever you go, there you are.

Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Image
User avatar
theski
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4327
Joined: 2003-01-28 03:20pm
Location: Hurricane Watching

Post by theski »

MOABs baby lots and lots of MOABs :twisted:
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
User avatar
Zoink
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2170
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:15pm
Location: Fluidic Space

Post by Zoink »

Yes to tactical nukes against military targets, if there was an actual benefit to using them (ie. reduce US casualties from chemical weapons).
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

I wouldn't think so. Say what you will about the U.S., but the War on Terror so far has been pretty restrained.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
Zoink
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2170
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:15pm
Location: Fluidic Space

Post by Zoink »

Tactical nukes might almost be a necessity, because you must show the world (read: Bin Laden, Pakistan/India, NK) that WMD use will not be tolerated.
User avatar
Lord Sander
Padawan Learner
Posts: 353
Joined: 2002-09-09 04:04pm
Location: Netherlands, the
Contact:

Post by Lord Sander »

I believe by UN law, a country can only use nukes on a country that also possesses nukes. But I could be wrong. And then there's the question how much attention the US still has for the UN.
Lord Sander,
"Oderint dum metuant"
Glory to the Empire and Emperor Palpatine!
Image
User avatar
Cpt_Frank
Official SD.Net Evil Warsie Asshole
Posts: 3652
Joined: 2002-07-03 03:05am
Location: the black void
Contact:

Post by Cpt_Frank »

Hopefully not or otherwise there will be probably be many civillian casualties and all chances of getting the Iraqi population on the side of the US are ruined.
Image
Supermod
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Post by phongn »

Lord Sander wrote:I believe by UN law, a country can only use nukes on a country that also possesses nukes. But I could be wrong. And then there's the question how much attention the US still has for the UN.
I'd like to see a cite for that.

Anyways, the United State has expressedly reserved the right to nuclear retaliation for a CBW attack; that much is clear. We may not do so (instead opting for an enormous MOAB/Daisy Cutter strike)
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Post by phongn »

Cpt_Frank wrote:Hopefully not or otherwise there will be probably be many civillian casualties and all chances of getting the Iraqi population on the side of the US are ruined.
Depends on where they initiate the device. If they're doing an airburst over a troop concentration in the middle of the desert, I doubt there would be many, if any, civilian casualties.
User avatar
Zoink
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2170
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:15pm
Location: Fluidic Space

Post by Zoink »

Lord Sander wrote:I believe by UN law, a country can only use nukes on a country that also possesses nukes. But I could be wrong. And then there's the question how much attention the US still has for the UN.
I *think* nukes are allowed in response to any WMD attack. Somebody might be able to provide a quote or something which could help...

I know its been stated that WMD attacks by Saddam are allowed if the US nukes first.
User avatar
Faram
Bastard Operator from Hell
Posts: 5271
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:39am
Location: Fighting Polarbears

Post by Faram »

Nuke = Sure way to get the USA really hated.
[img=right]http://hem.bredband.net/b217293/warsaban.gif[/img]

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus


Fear is the mother of all gods.

Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius
User avatar
Cpt_Frank
Official SD.Net Evil Warsie Asshole
Posts: 3652
Joined: 2002-07-03 03:05am
Location: the black void
Contact:

Post by Cpt_Frank »

phongn wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:Hopefully not or otherwise there will be probably be many civillian casualties and all chances of getting the Iraqi population on the side of the US are ruined.
Depends on where they initiate the device. If they're doing an airburst over a troop concentration in the middle of the desert, I doubt there would be many, if any, civilian casualties.
I was more thinking of cities (where most of Iraq's troops currently are stationed)
Image
Supermod
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Post by phongn »

Cpt_Frank wrote:
phongn wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:Hopefully not or otherwise there will be probably be many civillian casualties and all chances of getting the Iraqi population on the side of the US are ruined.
Depends on where they initiate the device. If they're doing an airburst over a troop concentration in the middle of the desert, I doubt there would be many, if any, civilian casualties.
I was more thinking of cities (where most of Iraq's troops currently are stationed)
I somehow doubt that we'll be airbursting over cities unless truly extraordinary events occur.
User avatar
Montcalm
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7879
Joined: 2003-01-15 10:50am
Location: Montreal Canada North America

Post by Montcalm »

Zoink wrote:Yes to tactical nukes against military targets
Knowing Saddam all military instalation are located near cities and villages. :shock:
Image
Jerry Orbach 1935 2004
Admiral Valdemar~You know you've fucked up when Wacky Races has more realistic looking vehicles than your own.
User avatar
Lonestar
Keeper of the Schwartz
Posts: 13321
Joined: 2003-02-13 03:21pm
Location: The Bay Area

Post by Lonestar »

EVERY country that has/had nukes (S. Africa included) has stated they consider use of chemical weapons = use of nukes.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
User avatar
Coyote
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 12464
Joined: 2002-08-23 01:20am
Location: The glorious Sun-Barge! Isis, Isis, Ra,Ra,Ra!
Contact:

Post by Coyote »

I doubt it. The US administration is quite awre that the world opinion now is a delicate thing that has already showed signs of cracking. Nukes would be a nail in the coffin of any US relations.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi
What Kind of Username is That?
Posts: 9254
Joined: 2002-07-10 08:53pm
Location: Back in PA

Post by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi »

I'd say no. Chemical weapons used against America would be a pure act of terror, and although it would justify a war, it would not be an excuse to launch nukes, since that would lead to massive civilian casualties, and ruin the world's view on America. Smarrt bombs aimed at military targets would be a better idea.
BotM: Just another monkey|HAB
User avatar
Darth Garden Gnome
Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
Posts: 6029
Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
Location: Some where near a mailbox

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

Probably not.

Either way, lets hope that no acts of terror ever come to pass to make such a scenario neccesary. WMD attacks are the last fucking thing we need.
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

At most I think America would use a single B-61 against a Republican guard unit, some are a fair distance from the cities. Beyond that, some bunkers or bases might be worth a nuke or just be hit because the balance of lunacy demands it.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Axis Kast
Vympel's Bitch
Posts: 3893
Joined: 2003-03-02 10:45am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Contact:

Post by Axis Kast »

The likelihood of Hussein’s deploying chemical weapons at all – let alone effectively – against Coalition targets is slim. More probable would be an assault on Israel – via his few remaining SCUDs – or a series of detonations in Basra and Baghdad that could then be blamed – falsely, of course – on American bombers.

Although the United States would take action to annihilate the unit actively responsible for any attempted non-conventional attack – we’re talking no quarter here -, it would almost certainly not respond with a tactical nuclear weapon unless Hussein’s first-strikes were successful. In that case, we’d attempt to locate a strategic military target distant from key population centers on which to exact our atomic revenge. If unable to do so, conventional bombs – potentially of the 21,000lb type – if available – would be used to utterly erase a given Iraqi position.

Interestingly enough, Israel – even if hit – is not as likely to respond to any provocation. At best, Sharon will authorize a handful of conventional missiles on Baghdad as a token response. There is no clear need for the State of Israel to uphold a policy of retaliation against a dictator now being actively removed from power. Not to mention that the Israeli government isn’t stupid enough to launch a nuclear war with American troops in the theater.
User avatar
Enlightenment
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2404
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:38pm
Location: Annoying nationalist twits since 1990

Post by Enlightenment »

There should be absolutely no doubt that the Texas junta will retaliate with nuclear weapons should Iraq use gas. The only question is how large the warheads will be and where they will be targetted.

Note however that the most likely target for an Iraqi gas attack would be Israel rather than US troops. In this event, Israel would not hesitate to destroy the entire Iraqi civilian population.
It's not my place in life to make people happy. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to watch me slaughter cows you hold sacred. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to have your basic assumptions challenged. If you want bunnies in light, talk to someone else.
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by Edi »

Probably not, I think the US would settle for total annihilation of the offending units and large portions of the rest of the Iraqi military. Like Stravo said, the nukes don't have any viable targets. The PR damage would be too great.

Edi
User avatar
Enlightenment
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2404
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:38pm
Location: Annoying nationalist twits since 1990

Post by Enlightenment »

Edi wrote:The PR damage would be too great.
Given that the US is more or less acting unilaterally with only the UK token allies for support I'm afraid that there might be an administration mentality of simply not caring if any fewer people support the US' actions. Certainly the rabid right wing here on sd.net believes that the US has very little if anything left to lose by alienating the rest of the international community.
It's not my place in life to make people happy. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to watch me slaughter cows you hold sacred. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to have your basic assumptions challenged. If you want bunnies in light, talk to someone else.
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

Enlightenment wrote:
Edi wrote:The PR damage would be too great.
Given that the US is more or less acting unilaterally with only the UK token allies for support I'm afraid that there might be an administration mentality of simply not caring if any fewer people support the US' actions. Certainly the rabid right wing here on sd.net believes that the US has very little if anything left to lose by alienating the rest of the international community.
I think there is quite a bit of difference between merely going to war without world approval and using nukes. The war will just strain relations; using nuclear weaponry without adequate justification would destroy them. There are still limits to what the U.S. can do.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Post Reply