US attacks Iraqi leadership?

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-20 08:27am

RE: U.S. attacks Iraqi leadership (CNN says Hussein)

Serious response to a "target of opertunity"?

*or*

Planned attack with no real chance of getting Saddam, just a propaganda tool for both the world and Iraqi citizens (ie. "see we're attacking the leadership, this proves it")

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-20 08:30am

NOTE: I'm not saying that attacking a real target vs propaganda target is any better/worse.... propaganda is a weapon in any war, just need to be aware of it so that you're not a sheep. Just looking for opinions on this attack.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-03-20 08:31am

i think it was a shot at the leadership. If you eliminate Saddam and his assclown sons, the whole regime collapses. That's the thing with governments like Saddam's, once you kill the figurehead, the whole ball of yarn unravels. Therefore, instead of an invasion we would most likely be dealing with a peacekeeping/police action type situation. it's good strategy.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-20 08:32am

Zoink wrote:NOTE: I'm not saying that attacking a real target vs propaganda target is any better/worse.... propaganda is a weapon in any war, just need to be aware of it so that you're not a sheep. Just looking for opinions on this attack.

Hello Deimos fucking Anomaly

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-20 08:35am

MKSheppard wrote: Hello Deimos fucking Anomaly

Don't understand your lingo.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-20 09:20am

MKSheppard wrote:Hello Deimos fucking Anomaly

Shep, Zoink isn't Demios Anomaly. I've checked his IP. Next time try verify it before shooting your mouth off.

Zoink wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: Hello Deimos fucking Anomaly
Don't understand your lingo.

He think's you're a sock puppetting troll.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-20 10:04am

Stormbringer wrote:
He think's you're a sock puppetting troll.

Ah, thanks.

Seems CNN is a sock puppeting troll for asking similar questions. Can't please everyone *shrug*.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-20 10:11am

Zoink wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
He think's you're a sock puppetting troll.
Ah, thanks.

Seems CNN is a sock puppeting troll for asking similar questions. Can't please everyone *shrug*.

No, you jut called people sheep. Demios did that all of the time. So Shep as usual went off half cocked.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-20 10:17am

Just to be clear:

propaganda
n : information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause

If the primary purpose of the attack was to show the world/arab world that the U.S. was targeting the leadership, then the attack was for propaganda.

If the primary purpose of the attack was in response to real evidence on Saddam where-abouts, its not.

People have a tendancy to think propaganda=bad, that's not always true.

If I were Bush (..neglecting that this war wouldn't have happened if that were true) then I would have told my commanders to start the war with an attack on the Iraqi leadership even if that attack has 0% chance of success. The purpose being, to make it clear to the world the intentions of the war.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-20 10:18am

Its not propaganda. The US wouldn't waste 42 Tomahawks for such a job, that a big chunk of what's in theater. A few F-117 sorties could supply all the Propaganda needed as far less cost.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-20 10:19am

Stormbringer wrote: Shep, Zoink isn't Demios Anomaly. I've checked his IP. Next time try verify it before shooting your mouth off.

Stormy, Deimos' primary account at SB.com has the nickname
"super sheep", because he LOVES to go around talking about
the majority of the populace as sheep, and when I see some moron
talking about sheep....well, you know...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-20 10:21am

MKSheppard wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: Shep, Zoink isn't Demios Anomaly. I've checked his IP. Next time try verify it before shooting your mouth off.
Stormy, Deimos' primary account at SB.com has the nickname
"super sheep", because he LOVES to go around talking about
the majority of the populace as sheep, and when I see some moron
talking about sheep....well, you know...

you just shoot your mouth off without any evidence?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-20 10:22am

Stormbringer wrote: you just shoot your mouth off without any evidence?

Me not a mod = Me cannot do IP checks.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-20 10:24am

Stormbringer wrote: you just shoot your mouth off without any evidence?

I don't really care, I was just confused over what he meant, as I didn't know this Diemos story.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-20 10:27am

MKSheppard wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: you just shoot your mouth off without any evidence?
Me not a mod = Me cannot do IP checks.

Duh. Which is a good reason to mention it to a mod before shooting your mouth off like an idiot.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-20 10:30am

Stormbringer wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: you just shoot your mouth off without any evidence?
Me not a mod = Me cannot do IP checks.
Duh. Which is a good reason to mention it to a mod before shooting your mouth off like an idiot.

Or we could just make him a mod. I've always wanted to see what happens when the Universe implodes.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-20 12:53pm

Zoink wrote: Serious response to a "target of opertunity"?

*or*

Planned attack with no real chance of getting Saddam, just a propaganda tool for both the world and Iraqi citizens (ie. "see we're attacking the leadership, this proves it")

Chances are its the latter. It would be a remarkable 'target of opportunity' that hung around for the 4-8 hours it takes to generate an F-117 mission or for the time it takes to generate and load a TLAM flight path.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-20 12:57pm

Enlightenment wrote:Chances are its the latter. It would be a remarkable 'target of opportunity' that hung around for the 4-8 hours it takes to generate an F-117 mission or for the time it takes to generate and load a TLAM flight path.

Probably. It'd depend on whether we had any planes standing by. Either why it was probably a longshot thing.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-03-20 10:41pm

There's no way in hell it was propaganda. Coupled with the facts, it's almost political suicide to try it. First off, they're popping off at the mouth and keep reporting 'regret any civilian casualties' everytime you hear them. Plus they have the media reporting about thier targets being speciifically at the government. So they're jump of the gun last night was almost clearly going to be on a true target they could NOT pass up. Not to mention thier proper unloading of many of my fellow Americans tax dollars. If the tomahawks weren't enough, the MOAB should have got the job done. Propoganda also I believe if found out, that they were just tooting thier own horn would bring a lot of people, not foreigners on them.

Regardless, propoganda or not, the objective is to take down Hussein, and his sons. There's no point at all, to botch up a victory, simply because they think a missile might endanger a life. While they should try and maintain a low loss of casualties on Iraqi civilians, it's not something you just throw the war over.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-20 10:47pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Zoink wrote: Serious response to a "target of opertunity"?

*or*

Planned attack with no real chance of getting Saddam, just a propaganda tool for both the world and Iraqi citizens (ie. "see we're attacking the leadership, this proves it")
Chances are its the latter. It would be a remarkable 'target of opportunity' that hung around for the 4-8 hours it takes to generate an F-117 mission or for the time it takes to generate and load a TLAM flight path.

4-8 hour meetings are not an unusual thing in politics or business. Anyway, this really would have taken human Intel in which case planners might have known before it started.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-20 10:51pm

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:There's no way in hell it was propaganda. Coupled with the facts, it's almost political suicide to try it. First off, they're popping off at the mouth and keep reporting 'regret any civilian casualties' everytime you hear them. Plus they have the media reporting about thier targets being speciifically at the government. So they're jump of the gun last night was almost clearly going to be on a true target they could NOT pass up. Not to mention thier proper unloading of many of my fellow Americans tax dollars. If the tomahawks weren't enough, the MOAB should have got the job done. Propoganda also I believe if found out, that they were just tooting thier own horn would bring a lot of people, not foreigners on them.

Great idea, lets fly a C-130 over Baghdad in daylight! Even better, lets drop a blast weapon, when a big part of the target is bunkers and overbuilt structures, which wouldn't even be scratched. And on top of all that, we get a huge blast and fragments lethal a mile away in the middle of a heavily populated civilian area. My what great planning.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-03-20 11:24pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
DG_Cal_Wright wrote:There's no way in hell it was propaganda. Coupled with the facts, it's almost political suicide to try it. First off, they're popping off at the mouth and keep reporting 'regret any civilian casualties' everytime you hear them. Plus they have the media reporting about thier targets being speciifically at the government. So they're jump of the gun last night was almost clearly going to be on a true target they could NOT pass up. Not to mention thier proper unloading of many of my fellow Americans tax dollars. If the tomahawks weren't enough, the MOAB should have got the job done. Propoganda also I believe if found out, that they were just tooting thier own horn would bring a lot of people, not foreigners on them.
Great idea, lets fly a C-130 over Baghdad in daylight! Even better, lets drop a blast weapon, when a big part of the target is bunkers and overbuilt structures, which wouldn't even be scratched. And on top of all that, we get a huge blast and fragments lethal a mile away in the middle of a heavily populated civilian area. My what great planning.

I don't think either one of us were very coherent in our posts. Mine was distracted due to news watching in between words.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-03-20 11:32pm

Pure propaganda is a bit expensive... At a million a pop for those tomahawks, especially when you consider the fact that IIRC the line to make them has shut down, it's not very likely. (Then again, Clinton did it...)

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-21 12:04am

Beowulf wrote:Pure propaganda is a bit expensive... At a million a pop for those tomahawks, especially when you consider the fact that IIRC the line to make them has shut down, it's not very likely. (Then again, Clinton did it...)

There's a program fairly well underway to develop a replacement missile for the now venerable Tomahawk. TLAM production is AFIAK halted but the general capability of ship-to-land strike will simply be handed to the TLAM replacement when the existing stocks have been used.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-03-21 12:09am

My sources are telling me that it was, indeed, an attempt to kill Saddam Hussein. One of them said something to the effect of "We had a chance to get him. Even if that was a miniscule chance... we had to take it in the interests of ending the war quickly."

StarDestroyer.Net BBS