Overwatch

[Irbis]

So, apparently Blizzard works on new DotA/TF mix called Overwatch with rather fancy intro:



More videos, including planned gameplay, available here. Opinion?

[Grumman]

Looks pretty, character designs are nice, don't care for the 6v6, two objective maps.

[Mr Bean]

Looks pretty, character designs are nice, don't care for the 6v6.

It's Team Moba 2 as some have called it. Take Team Fortress, add moba elements add a touch of Blizzard then begin printing money.

Something like this will depend entirely on how the gameplay works. You already got me with character designs, who doesn't love gorillas? And I've often said when playing medic.. gee I wish I had a jetpack.

Well I often say, I wish I had a jetpack but the point stands

[Irbis]

Gorilla and time skipping girl are nice. Not a fan of all other female designs though. And I absolutely hate the "dwarf" (or whatever he is) down to about every last detail.

As for game, a lot of it looks suspiciously similar to TF2 and Portal. I wonder if Blizzard takes revenge for DotA 2 with this game?

[Lord Revan]

I wonder how much Project:Titan assests were put into this game after Titan was cancelled, as this looks rather finished even though we really didn't hear about it until recently.

[White Haven]

Gorilla and time skipping girl are nice. Not a fan of all other female designs though. And I absolutely hate the "dwarf" (or whatever he is) down to about every last detail.

As for game, a lot of it looks suspiciously similar to TF2 and Portal. I wonder if Blizzard takes revenge for DotA 2 with this game?

In that case, I'm already predisposed to liking the dwarf; I'll have to go hunt up some screenshots.

I don't know if I'll end up playing it or not, but that's not a strike against the game. I just find myself a bit burned out on shooters these past few years, and I never really got into the whole MOBA craze. Here's hoping they at least avoid the whole 'map diversity is a sin' trope.

[TheFeniX]

Orange and Blue. Know it. Love it.

Here's the actual gameplay footage:

I instantly got the feeling I had seen this before.

Totally not channeling the original TF2 trailer, even opening with characters running about and a builder class placing a turret, then showcasing the rock, paper, scissor (or nuke depending on class) nature of the game:


Game looks pretty slick, nothing special from Blizzard there. I do like the Stalker voice for Mr. dual-guns assassin guy. There's a few additions to the dynamic I think are interesting. A turret style character is cool, but mostly the idea that certain classes are designed to be airborne for most of their gametime, which adds an element I find missing in a lot of FPS lately. I don't really get where the MOBA comments are coming from, except with the addition of what looks like Ultimate Attacks. Knowing Blizzard's balancing mentality, I figure those will be the emphasis of a lot of patch-notes.

[Terralthra]

Blizzard shows how easy it is to have multiple female characters in your game as long as they all have basically the exact same (skinny/sexy) body type. And some have clothing that is literally impossible (skintight spandex doesn't conform to breasts separately, as anyone who has so much as seen a sports bra knows). Interestingly, they aren't even consistent about that much, since some of them, the skintight clothing at least looks like skintight clothing would look. But hey, at least there are some women...?

[Irbis]

Blizzard shows how easy it is to have multiple female characters in your game as long as they all have basically the exact same (skinny/sexy) body type. And some have clothing that is literally impossible (skintight spandex doesn't conform to breasts separately, as anyone who has so much as seen a sports bra knows). Interestingly, they aren't even consistent about that much, since some of them, the skintight clothing at least looks like skintight clothing would look. But hey, at least there are some women...?

It's not even spandex that are the problem - look at the legs. Either half characters are below knee amputees, or have pencil thin legs [example] to fit in the armour. It looks extremely jarring, especially seeing some characters do sport semi-realistic look [Reaper for one].

And yeah, I like Tracer because she is about the only non-skin showing Ms Fanservice so far, by the game standards at least. Everywhere else, she would be one of the most sexualized characters.

Totally not channeling the original TF2 trailer, even opening with characters running about and a builder class placing a turret, then showcasing the rock, paper, scissor (or nuke depending on class) nature of the game

Yeah, a lot of that is so carbon copied from TF2 you can name the lifted classes, not just weapons/concepts. Giant, minigun armed, slow character that can repair himself while defenceless for a few seconds, utilizing much weaker gun while on the move - 100% fit in both games.

My problem with Overwatch trailers is that they are obviously meant to be skill demonstrations, as everyone in them dies after one hit despite trailer protagonists having thousands of HP. Releasing these before more gameplay videos was mistake IMHO - they are not supposed to be demonstrating real game but leave bad first impression.

Game looks pretty slick, nothing special from Blizzard there. I do like the Stalker voice for Mr. dual-guns assassin guy. There's a few additions to the dynamic I think are interesting. A turret style character is cool, but mostly the idea that certain classes are designed to be airborne for most of their gametime, which adds an element I find missing in a lot of FPS lately.

Actually, flying can be a problem - Phera/Mercy combo can fly and boost each other firepower. Meanwhile, OW webpage states that tanks like Rheinhardt are mostly melee/short range characters - how they would deal with fliers? Even non fliers, like Widowmaker and Tracer have mobility skills unmatched by tank charges we saw so far...

I don't really get where the MOBA comments are coming from, except with the addition of what looks like Ultimate Attacks. Knowing Blizzard's balancing mentality, I figure those will be the emphasis of a lot of patch-notes.

Ultimate attacks, character roles, 5 vs 5, and what looks like 1 class per game. I really hope they will change last two things or it might end up like SMBC.

[TheFeniX]

Blizzard shows how easy it is to have multiple female characters in your game as long as they all have basically the exact same (skinny/sexy) body type. And some have clothing that is literally impossible (skintight spandex doesn't conform to breasts separately, as anyone who has so much as seen a sports bra knows). Interestingly, they aren't even consistent about that much, since some of them, the skintight clothing at least looks like skintight clothing would look. But hey, at least there are some women...?

This is Blizzard we're talking about, where being an old witch in Diablo means you just take the daughter's portrait and add some gray hairs. Still, considering the lack of unique female characters in FPS, I wouldn't call it all bad.

My problem with Overwatch trailers is that they are obviously meant to be skill demonstrations, as everyone in them dies after one hit despite trailer protagonists having thousands of HP. Releasing these before more gameplay videos was mistake IMHO - they are not supposed to be demonstrating real game but leave bad first impression.

The TF2 trailer did the same thing what with a single heavy just mowing down loads of soldiers. I have to ask: is this game going to end up with PCs as bullet-sponges and kills are going to be a major influence like they are in mobas? Sounds dumb. The whole slow build-up culminating in 1-3 actual team engagements in MOBAs is what turned me off to them.

Actually, flying can be a problem - Phera/Mercy combo can fly and boost each other firepower. Meanwhile, OW webpage states that tanks like Rheinhardt are mostly melee/short range characters - how they would deal with fliers? Even non fliers, like Widowmaker and Tracer have mobility skills unmatched by tank charges we saw so far...

I don't really mind rock, paper, scissors gameplay. Some characters should trump others. My problem is that this is Blizzard's first real foray into FPS and they are already notoriously bad at balancing.

[Irbis]

This is Blizzard we're talking about, where being an old witch in Diablo means you just take the daughter's portrait and add some gray hairs. Still, considering the lack of unique female characters in FPS, I wouldn't call it all bad.

I don't know, outside of Tracer none of OW designs (IMHO) was on the level of Skye Autumn, Sweet Autumn, or Tsygan from Sanctum 2. Dissimilar ages, abilities, body types and looks despite all of them wearing same (though customized) armour - they all look vastly different despite having much more in common in all areas than OW girls.

The TF2 trailer did the same thing what with a single heavy just mowing down loads of soldiers. I have to ask: is this game going to end up with PCs as bullet-sponges and kills are going to be a major influence like they are in mobas? Sounds dumb. The whole slow build-up culminating in 1-3 actual team engagements in MOBAs is what turned me off to them.

The difference, though, is that Heavy really can kill that quick from point blank range - that's his whole point. OW demonstration videos have even light scout class kill heavy tank in 2 shots.

And yes, the 3000+ HP on Rheinhardt video left me worried. Yes, I suppose he is tank with shield but that sounds excessive, especially seeing at least 4 other characters can boost it even further.

I also wonder if the game has MOBA approach of ultimates simply happening in area without aiming (like Reaper's seem to do) or if you need to aim precisely FPS like - Widowmaker seems to do more damage on headshot. If both is true, aimed characters might be at big disadvantage...

I don't really mind rock, paper, scissors gameplay. Some characters should trump others. My problem is that this is Blizzard's first real foray into FPS and they are already notoriously bad at balancing.

I don't know, TF2 team balanced the game 7 years now and still mobility >>> everything else. Professional players use 3-4 classes out of 9, not because they deal more damage, far from it, but because they can get to objective faster or instantly mount assault on next point before enemy regroups. And yet, they don't even have flight or teleports. I can hardly imagine the explosion of rage that would have happened on TF2 forums if Soldier could now fly or Sniper gained grappling hook. It's a massive advantage even in game where everyone has guns, much less is forced to melee.

Ditto in DotA 2, everyone and their brother picks mobility characters or buys Blink Dagger or any other mobility thing in first 2-3 items. Again, these are short range abilities that don't give total invulnerability like flight or high building does.

[Grumman]

Actually, flying can be a problem - Phera/Mercy combo can fly and boost each other firepower. Meanwhile, OW webpage states that tanks like Rheinhardt are mostly melee/short range characters - how they would deal with fliers? Even non fliers, like Widowmaker and Tracer have mobility skills unmatched by tank charges we saw so far...

Rewatching the trailer Rheinhardt has three times as much life as most characters, thirteen times more whenever he's not hitting someone. Since neither of the fliers are capable of sustained flight (Pharah has a multi-jump, Mercy can glide) it might be as simple as shrugging off anything they can throw at you until it's time to smash.

[Lord Revan]

Actually, flying can be a problem - Phera/Mercy combo can fly and boost each other firepower. Meanwhile, OW webpage states that tanks like Rheinhardt are mostly melee/short range characters - how they would deal with fliers? Even non fliers, like Widowmaker and Tracer have mobility skills unmatched by tank charges we saw so far...

Rewatching the trailer Rheinhardt has three times as much life as most characters, thirteen times more whenever he's not hitting someone. Since neither of the fliers are capable of sustained flight (Pharah has a multi-jump, Mercy can glide) it might be as simple as shrugging off anything they can throw at you until it's time to smash.

also both tank characters seem to have ranged attack of sorts, so they're not totally useless if they can't get in melee

[Covenant]

The Pixar Trailer of this made me excited, then the actual gameplay stuff made me weep bitter tears of disappointment. Each quirk is so limited as to be laughable, the levels are narrow, and it does not seem like characters bound around nearly as much as I was lead to believe. Not "the worst thing ever" by any stretch but I am sad they took such a minimalistic approach with their source material.

[Irbis]

Rewatching the trailer Rheinhardt has three times as much life as most characters, thirteen times more whenever he's not hitting someone. Since neither of the fliers are capable of sustained flight (Pharah has a multi-jump, Mercy can glide) it might be as simple as shrugging off anything they can throw at you until it's time to smash.

That's why I said character demonstrations left me worried - because he died with full shield in dwarf demonstration in about 3 seconds. If that wasn't rigged, you can expect light classes dying before they can even react. Then, there is the fact his shield projects forward, is it going to be of any use against fliers?

As for flight, TF2 equivalent isn't even flight, it's big jumps, and it still leaves slow classes defenceless. Character demonstrations for both snipers seem to suggest most maps will have plenty of high, difficult to access places too.

also both tank characters seem to have ranged attack of sorts, so they're not totally useless if they can't get in melee

These seem to be projectile, not hit scan attacks. Unless they are really fast, you will have huge problems hitting anything that can dodge. Good scout in TF2 has little problems dodging soldier or demoman, and they can repeat such attack in rapid succession instead of firing once.

In that case, I'm already predisposed to liking the dwarf; I'll have to go hunt up some screenshots.

Jelly much?

Of of curiosity, what exactly is appealing in him: plagiarised gameplay (seriously, other classes at least try to put some spin on mechanics from other games, dwarf is 200% copy of engineer from TF2, down to making level 3 sentry from 200 scrap and weapon set)? Ill-fit for setting (dwarf from Azeroth in near future Earth? What? And why he doesn't sound like Scandinavian, but again, copies US deep south mannerisms of TF2 engineer)? Badly done animations (more jerky and sudden than two robots in the game, granted, alpha stage though), or overall completely ridiculous design (spoon hand pouring orange juice to water soaker gun... )?

It really IMHO takes something special to look idiotic and out of place in setting with talking gorillas, hippie battle robots, forced religious paraphernalia, emo brooding armours complete with knee faces, and medieval-inspired knights with rocket hammers...

[Sinewmire]

And why he doesn't sound like Scandinavian, but again, copies US deep south mannerisms of TF2 engineer)?

Sounded more like Blizzard's usual attempt at a Scottish accent to me.

[Irbis]

Sounded more like Blizzard's usual attempt at a Scottish accent to me.

Accent, maybe, but contractions and overall way of speaking are very similar to Texan engineer from TF2. I just can't find anything original or relatable in that character, it's caricature of WoW race combined with TF2.

Speaking of relatable characters, IMHO biggest shortfall of the game so far is how it seems to include only post WWII Western countries. No one from Eastern Europe, Asia or Africa outside of two best known UK colonies (and even then one of two Asians is just insane robot).

[Grumman]

Speaking of relatable characters, IMHO biggest shortfall of the game so far is how it seems to include only post WWII Western countries. No one from Eastern Europe, Asia or Africa outside of two best known UK colonies (and even then one of two Asians is just insane robot).

That is a ridiculous complaint. Only five of the twelve characters are from Western countries (Tracer, Widowmaker, Reinhardt, Torbjorn, Mercy), the others are all from non-Western countries (Pharah, Symmetra, Hanzo, Zenyetta) or unaffiliated (Reaper, Winston, Bastion).

[Irbis]

So, someone clandestinely recorded some gameplay here. Bad quality, bad players, but at least it shows OW will be conceptually much closer to TF2 than LOL or DotA, what with there being no class limits as of now. Also, I guess partially addressed my concerns about Rheinhardt, he can indeed lift shield up and map crampedness partially stops excessive mobility (though, that's bad news, too). Looks like I was correct about flying/jumping classes being able to reach impassable cliffs from which they can fire with impunity.

Hmm. I don't know if I can see no limits working. There is nothing stopping 6 Bastions from turtling up on last point with interlocking shields stopping any push cold. There is also no differentiating system in place, allowing enemies to recognize players at a glance. In TF2, a lot of this task is done by cosmetics worn by each players, but seeing Blizzard's idea of good cosmetic is RAINBOW PONY and their general hostility to mods, well...

That is a ridiculous complaint. Only five of the twelve characters are from Western countries (Tracer, Widowmaker, Reinhardt, Torbjorn, Mercy), the others are all from non-Western countries (Pharah, Symmetra, Hanzo, Zenyetta) or unaffiliated (Reaper, Winston, Bastion).

Um, read what I wrote again. Western world directly post WW2 with occupied Japan - with token addition of two famous British colonies. No one is black, Slavic, Asian, Latino, vast majority of Earth landmass is skipped, only West is mostly represented*. Do you really not see why making 'global peacekeeping force' just early Cold War NATO 2.0 looks kinda... unfortunate?

*even Germany has both representatives from southwest, old BRD, no one from Berlin or DDR as you might have expected...

Why I say token? Just look at them - Pharah in both name and graphical design references ancient Egypt. Zenyatta is robot who accidentally adopted Asian religion. They have nothing whatsoever in common with current inhabitants of either country, hell, continent, being more of distilled aged popculture stereotypes than realistic people. Granted, you can say that of a lot more OW characters, but at least they don't reference cultural concepts that are 3000 years old

As for unaligned, they speak English and have about nothing on them even hinting on origin outside Anglosphere. Frankly, the count should look more like 10 from West/Western stereotype of a country, 2 unknown. Ok, 9, if we try to be really generous about Symmetra.

[Grumman]

That is a ridiculous complaint. Only five of the twelve characters are from Western countries (Tracer, Widowmaker, Reinhardt, Torbjorn, Mercy), the others are all from non-Western countries (Pharah, Symmetra, Hanzo, Zenyetta) or unaffiliated (Reaper, Winston, Bastion).

Um, read what I wrote again. Western world directly post WW2 with occupied Japan - with token addition of two famous British colonies. No one is black, Slavic, Asian, Latino, vast majority of Earth landmass is skipped, only West is mostly represented*. Do you really not see why making 'global peacekeeping force' just early Cold War NATO 2.0 looks kinda... unfortunate?

Of course it's going to look like Cold War NATO 2.0 if you claim that all examples to the contrary don't count. Pretty much the entire planet is one former European colony or another - even the handful of countries that were not invaded by Britain itself were still French or Spanish colonies. Apart from putting in a Chinese character because Indians and the Japanese apparently aren't real Asians, what exactly is Blizzard supposed to have done?

Why I say token? Just look at them - Pharah in both name and graphical design references ancient Egypt. Zenyatta is robot who accidentally adopted Asian religion. They have nothing whatsoever in common with current inhabitants of either country, hell, continent, being more of distilled aged popculture stereotypes than realistic people. Granted, you can say that of a lot more OW characters, but at least they don't reference cultural concepts that are 3000 years old

I agree with you about Zenyatta, or if you'd used Hanzo as an example, but Pharah? She's an Egyptian soldier-turned-private military contractor, guarding an Egyptian AI research facility, wearing a flight-capable suit of power armour and wielding a rocket launcher. Your complaints are that her callsign is the Arabic name "Farah" spelt with a "Ph", and that a flight suit has a few visual references to a bird of prey. It's not like Blizzard posted some bullshit about her being chosen by Horus, she's just a soldier whose callsign is a pun.

[TheFeniX]

Blizzard shows how easy it is to have multiple female characters in your game as long as they all have basically the exact same (skinny/sexy) body type. And some have clothing that is literally impossible (skintight spandex doesn't conform to breasts separately, as anyone who has so much as seen a sports bra knows). Interestingly, they aren't even consistent about that much, since some of them, the skintight clothing at least looks like skintight clothing would look. But hey, at least there are some women...?

Blizzard addresses concerns

Last year during BlizzCon 2014, Blizzard unveiled a new game called Overwatch. This is a first-person game and what made it interesting was how Blizzard demonstrated their awareness of the gaming industry’s landscape by not developing oversexualized female characters. However it seems that despite their attempts, there were still some who felt it wasn’t good enough.

Well Blizzard has since introduced a new character to the game in the form of Zarya. As you can see in the gameplay preview above, Zarya does not look like your typical female character. Her proportions can hardly be called slim and her outfit is not overly revealing, something that Blizzard is hoping will appease the critics.

In an interview with Kotaku, Blizzard was quoted as saying, “There is also talk about diversity in different body types in that not everybody wants to have the exact same body type always represented. And we just want you to know that we’re listening and we’re trying hard and we hope Zarya is a step in the right direction.”

This addresses one of the issues critics had with the characters in the game where the male characters had a variety of body types and shapes, ranging from tall and lean to short and stocky, versus the female characters who had pretty much one look to them – “long legged, slender, mostly sexualized armour, high heels, lack of pants,” according to Anita Sarkeesian.

What's the deal with the pink hair? Though as a kid growing up with a huge crush on Brigitte Nielsen in Red Sonya, the biceps and the boob-plate is kind of doing it for me.

But I do find this kind of pandering insulting. It's basically saying "Our character design is uninspired? Here's a buff chick with short hair, please shut up" rather than "hey, this is a cool character we thought up." Even among conventionally attractive women, if that's the route they wanted to go, there exists a huge difference in body-types, noticeable at a glance. Do Blizzard modellers ever leave the office and just look around? You can make characters unique without jumping to ridiculous proportions. valve showed how to go both ways with TF2 and L4Dead.

[Grumman]

I like Zarya. She's a good looking woman of a different sort and she fits into the more serious sci-fi half of the roster, both of which are points in her favour.

[Nephtys]

Someone rule 63'ed the Heavy.
Stereotype A is gone of thin busty anime waifu, and replaced with stronk russian stereotype B, yay!

[Nephtys]

Joking aside, I don't understand quite yet what they're trying to do with the feel of the game. The characters have an overblown sort of style which is cool, but what's the deal with making it some sort of 'budget cut SHIELD' thing, when the actual gameplay will have nothing to do with that? Why make evil sith lord shotgun guys and superheroes, when you're trying to capture flags?

TF2 at it's core, was just about absurdism anyway. This is trying to have some sort of theme it seems... so I'm disappointed that they aren't 'class limiting' characters, so that a game only has 1-of like a moba.

[TheFeniX]

Joking aside, I don't understand quite yet what they're trying to do with the feel of the game. The characters have an overblown sort of style which is cool, but what's the deal with making it some sort of 'budget cut SHIELD' thing, when the actual gameplay will have nothing to do with that? Why make evil sith lord shotgun guys and superheroes, when you're trying to capture flags?

It's easier to create trailers about OUTRAGEOUS characters than it is to showcase gameplay. Get people to say "I want to play as that guy/girl" rather then "I want to capture control points in a reskinned team-based objective shooter."

It seems Actiblizz is trying to cram the LoL/DotA and TF2 players into a single gamer base and get them playing their game. Nothing more really.

TF2 at it's core, was just about absurdism anyway. This is trying to have some sort of theme it seems... so I'm disappointed that they aren't 'class limiting' characters, so that a game only has 1-of like a moba.

Underneath TF2 absurd characters was a competitive game. The hilarious hype videos and the subsequent "Meet the X" videos helped sell the game, but that didn't keep people playing it for years so valve could push it into the F2P direction they finally went.

Compare Killer Instinct/Mortal Kombat vs Street Fighter. The former were built off a lot of hype and lacked longevity but Street Fighter hasn't changed in an essential way for 20 years and is still pushing units. That's the difference between absurdity being at the core and heaping some absurdity on top of a polished game.

TF2 could have easily had the TFC aesthetics and still would have been a great game. But there also wouldn't have been the opportunity for stuff like this and the world would have been poorer for it.