Q vs. Han Solo and Chewbacca

[SirNitram]

No, dumbass, here's what I'm saying:

A member of this species manifested the species' known abilities before she ever encountered her ancestral society. Thus, no technology ever changed hands. She never had access to any "technology", only to the species biology through her parents. How many different ways to I have to explain this very basic concept before you understand it?

Or the technology reacted to her presense(Thus explaining why it didn't manifest before that time in her life). When dealing with tech so high as to be magic, this falls like a deck of cards.

Wait, let me see if I've got this right -- you're saying that this Q girl, who never met another of her own species, never saw her native Continuum, probably didn't even know what the Q were, knew right away how to use Q "technology" as it was in her presence -- still without having any idea it was there? Or are you saying that the technology did these things for her without her knowing it? Wouldn't that make the technology clairvoyant? Sentient machines aren't new in sci-fi, Nitram, but I think you've just suggested psychic machines... that's new.

Not at all. A device of sufficient power can easily scan someone's genetic makeup, conclude they are a Q, and interperate brain waves(Which are just electromagnetic waves anyway) to produce results. The technology most likely is non-sentient(Or else Q's equipment would likely be annoyed at all the rules he breaks), so it will simply obey it's master, or anyone matching the species of it's master.

My theory gives a mechanism, clearly explaining how something like this can happen. Yours is handwaving and insisting Occam's Razor should be ignored because it inconveniences your wishes that Q was some sort of minor mage. I'll tell you what.. Once you stop squawking here, I'll get out the Netherese Empire, and prove they can beat the Q, in the Other Sci-Fi forum.

As I said, in the episode we learn that Amanda Rogers has been dealing with these abilities all her life. Nothing "reacted to her presence". Stop the wishful thinking, already.

Accusing me of wishful thinking while you claim your unknowns are perfectly valid is pretty funny.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

[quote="SirNitram]
Wow, you are stupid, aren't you? I never claimed they were real muskets. I claimed they were technology, which they clearly are.[/quote] Okay, conceded; they are some kind of technology. Probably not physical in nature, but I will grant then that they may be some kind of device.

Of course, yes, Han Solo needs access to that amount of energy output to deal with a Q(Editor's Note: Here, Raoul will prove he is stupid by claiming an energy increase of some magnitude can induce supernovae.). It may be within the limits of a blaster. It cannot be too much higher, due to U/c and recoil issues...

And you have just proven yourself stupid, Nitram, or inattentive, I'm not sure which. Sending stars supernova was a by-product of the Q weaponry, not its primary effect. So, indeed, if Solo has a weapon sufficient that the aftereffects are supernovae or comparable phenomena, he might be in the right neighborhood. Of course, with a weapon like that, you probably only get one shot.

It helps to read threads with your eyes, not your ass. I have never said they aren't powerful. I just said they use technology.

Which we have never seen. Another burden of proof.

Claiming innate natural (not supernatural) abilities which have been demonstrated time and time again is not an unknown.

It is if you can't provide a mechanism. Is your uneducated brain unaware that this is exactly the sort of thing Occam was talking about?[/quote]

A mechanism is provided; biology. Granted, Q biology is unknown, but in the case of Amanda Rogers, it is the only explanation that works.

Again I remind you of the following analogy: Human technology can duplicate the natural color-change ability of the chameleon. This does not prove that chameleons use advanced versions of human technology to achieve color-change.

And a sufficiently big transporters will move a ship 40,000 LY in the blink of an eye, and you'll claim it's magic.[/quote]

BoP/Strawman. I claim biology as the cause, for which there is evidence, and you claim Q transporters, for which there is none.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

[quote="SirNitram]
Wow, you are stupid, aren't you? I never claimed they were real muskets. I claimed they were technology, which they clearly are.[/quote] Okay, conceded; they are some kind of technology. Probably not physical in nature, but I will grant then that they may be some kind of device.

Of course, yes, Han Solo needs access to that amount of energy output to deal with a Q(Editor's Note: Here, Raoul will prove he is stupid by claiming an energy increase of some magnitude can induce supernovae.). It may be within the limits of a blaster. It cannot be too much higher, due to U/c and recoil issues...

And you have just proven yourself stupid, Nitram, or inattentive, I'm not sure which. Sending stars supernova was a by-product of the Q weaponry, not its primary effect. So, indeed, if Solo has a weapon sufficient that the aftereffects are supernovae or comparable phenomena, he might be in the right neighborhood. Of course, with a weapon like that, you probably only get one shot.

It helps to read threads with your eyes, not your ass. I have never said they aren't powerful. I just said they use technology.

Which we have never seen. Another burden of proof.

Claiming innate natural (not supernatural) abilities which have been demonstrated time and time again is not an unknown.

It is if you can't provide a mechanism. Is your uneducated brain unaware that this is exactly the sort of thing Occam was talking about?[/quote]

A mechanism is provided; biology. Granted, Q biology is unknown, but in the case of Amanda Rogers, it is the only explanation that works.

Again I remind you of the following analogy: Human technology can duplicate the natural color-change ability of the chameleon. This does not prove that chameleons use advanced versions of human technology to achieve color-change.

And a sufficiently big transporters will move a ship 40,000 LY in the blink of an eye, and you'll claim it's magic.[/quote]

BoP/Strawman. I claim biology as the cause, for which there is evidence, and you claim Q transporters, for which there is none.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Someone kill this that duplicate post, please.

[SirNitram]

And you have just proven yourself stupid, Nitram, or inattentive, I'm not sure which. Sending stars supernova was a by-product of the Q weaponry, not its primary effect. So, indeed, if Solo has a weapon sufficient that the aftereffects are supernovae or comparable phenomena, he might be in the right neighborhood. Of course, with a weapon like that, you probably only get one shot.

And he takes the bait! He thinks enough energy input will make a supernova go off! Thank you, Raoul, you never cease to amuse me. No amount of energy input will cause a supernova. I suggest you learn more before you claim such. Therefore this aftereffect must be technobabble, and we must then instead study the firepower of the weapons primary effects.

It helps to read threads with your eyes, not your ass. I have never said they aren't powerful. I just said they use technology.

Which we have never seen. Another burden of proof.

Clearly seen in Q and the Grey. Do you regularly lie so much and so obviously? It's quite obnoxious.

Claiming innate natural (not supernatural) abilities which have been demonstrated time and time again is not an unknown.

It is if you can't provide a mechanism. Is your uneducated brain unaware that this is exactly the sort of thing Occam was talking about?

A mechanism is provided; biology. Granted, Q biology is unknown, but in the case of Amanda Rogers, it is the only explanation that works.[/quote]

You have no mechanism for how that biology works, you even admit it. I have a mechanism for how the technology works. Is this too complicated for you?

Again I remind you of the following analogy: Human technology can duplicate the natural color-change ability of the chameleon. This does not prove that chameleons use advanced versions of human technology to achieve color-change.

And a sufficiently big transporters will move a ship 40,000 LY in the blink of an eye, and you'll claim it's magic.

BoP/Strawman. I claim biology as the cause, for which there is evidence, and you claim Q transporters, for which there is none.[/quote]

You have no proof it is biology, and you have no mechanism for how biology can create the effects. I suggest you start satisfying your own burden of proof before you start lying about me not satisfying it.

[SirNitram]

Someone kill this that duplicate post, please.

Cleanup, Forum 1.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Okay, fuck it. Sure, it's technology. We've never seen Q technology, we've seen Q who could never even have known about the technology use it like they wrote the fucking manual for it, this technology can permit huge leaps through time and space, raise the dead, etc.

What if I agree? So fucking what.

Han Solo and Chewbacca would still not have a fucking chance unless Q let them.

[SirNitram]

Okay, fuck it. Sure, it's technology. We've never seen Q technology, we've seen Q who could never even have known about the technology use it like they wrote the fucking manual for it, this technology can permit huge leaps through time and space, raise the dead, etc.

What if I agree? So fucking what.

Han Solo and Chewbacca would still not have a fucking chance unless Q let them.

This is just your inability to understand a post made for humourous reasons. Of course, whether a blaster is within the parameters to harm a Q is a topic that comes up Insufficient Data, since we haven't observed the actual energy output of a Q weapon. But it's nice to know you're finally not screaming you are right despite all the inconvenient things like logic.

[Zoink]

If something or some combination of technology on the show (that we know exists), can duplicate the powers of Q, then Occam's Razor requires that one first consider the possibility that Q's powers are derived from similar devices. Attributing Q's powers to some unknown biology is an assumption.

By first considering that Q's powers are technology; you are making the assumption that these devices are causing this particular effect. If you consider that Q's biology is causing it; then you must first assume that such biology even exists, then assume that this biology is the cause. The second case has the greater assumption.

The only example I can think of on TNG of Picard applying this rule is the episode with "Ardra the Devil", where she claims to have supernatural powers, and demonstrates them. Picard realizes that her powers can be duplicated through known technology and first investigates this angle. The same rational analysis *should* be applied to the Q.

[Kurgan]

Now I know Sisko punched Q (after Q rigged up a mock boxing ring and goaded him into taking a swing), but in TNG when they first meet Q, he pops up on their bridge, a crewman draws a phaser and is instantly "frozen" before he can fire.

Not saying he was Quick Draw McGraw or anything, but couldn't Q do this to Han Solo? ; )

[Zoink]

Now I know Sisko punched Q (after Q rigged up a mock boxing ring and goaded him into taking a swing), but in TNG when they first meet Q, he pops up on their bridge, a crewman draws a phaser and is instantly "frozen" before he can fire.

Not saying he was Quick Draw McGraw or anything, but couldn't Q do this to Han Solo? ; )

Being frozen has never stopped Solo, maybe just slowed him down for a bit.

[Darth Servo]

Now I know Sisko punched Q (after Q rigged up a mock boxing ring and goaded him into taking a swing), but in TNG when they first meet Q, he pops up on their bridge, a crewman draws a phaser and is instantly "frozen" before he can fire.

Not saying he was Quick Draw McGraw or anything, but couldn't Q do this to Han Solo? ; )

It was a nameless ensign. To quote Lord Poe's website, "No-name Star Trek ensigns can get their asses kicked by tribbles."

[Darth Servo]

Now I know Sisko punched Q (after Q rigged up a mock boxing ring and goaded him into taking a swing), but in TNG when they first meet Q, he pops up on their bridge, a crewman draws a phaser and is instantly "frozen" before he can fire.

Not saying he was Quick Draw McGraw or anything, but couldn't Q do this to Han Solo? ; )

It was a nameless ensign. To quote Lord Poe's website, "No-name Star Trek ensigns can get their asses kicked by tribbles."

[LadyTevar]

Okay, fuck it. Sure, it's technology. We've never seen Q technology, we've seen Q who could never even have known about the technology use it like they wrote the fucking manual for it, this technology can permit huge leaps through time and space, raise the dead, etc.

What if I agree? So fucking what.

Han Solo and Chewbacca would still not have a fucking chance unless Q let them.

This is just your inability to understand a post made for humourous reasons. Of course, whether a blaster is within the parameters to harm a Q is a topic that comes up Insufficient Data, since we haven't observed the actual energy output of a Q weapon. But it's nice to know you're finally not screaming you are right despite all the inconvenient things like logic.

Nitram? SIT BOY!

I think that's quite enough for now out of you, especially since neither of you are going to convince each other, but are only two men having a pissing contest.

To be truthful, Nitram m'dear.... Raoul's right. It's NOT technology.

[Slartibartfast]

Ok, I guess I'll have to step in and stop the fight. You both aren't really going to prove anything and you're just flaming each other. This needs to stop now.

and so you know, Q uses holograms and other tricks to fool people into thinking he has powers. 'nuff said

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Ok, I guess I'll have to step in and stop the fight. You both aren't really going to prove anything and you're just flaming each other. This needs to stop now.

and so you know, Q uses holograms and other tricks to fool people into thinking he has powers. 'nuff said

Right you are. Done.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

It should be noted that Ben Sisko, whom punched Q(Q was surprised Sisko had the AUDACITY to strike him, nothing more, especially since Q can stand outside the Enterprise when its in Warp, I doubt a punch from a normal human would hurt the being, but I digress) has partial heredaty from a race of energy beings that can wipe out a fleet of thousands of ships with a gesture.

So... *Snap* Han and Chewie are drinking vaccum. Or hell, Q can go creative and make them go extra frosty like Q did in the TNG pilot.

[Xon]

A human can kill themself by jumping off a bridge. If Quinn is vulnerable to normal violence, he could easily do the same. Or throw himself in a black hole.

Precisely. A human needs something external to himself in order to kill himself. This means the Q continuum can keep Quinn from killing himself.

I thought a human could comit suicide by biting their tongh off and bleeding to death?

[Darth Negation]

Quinn probably didn't think of that.

[neoolong]

A human can kill themself by jumping off a bridge. If Quinn is vulnerable to normal violence, he could easily do the same. Or throw himself in a black hole.

Precisely. A human needs something external to himself in order to kill himself. This means the Q continuum can keep Quinn from killing himself.

I thought a human could comit suicide by biting their tongh off and bleeding to death?

There are a number of ways a human can kill himself without external help. They are unpleasant to say the least.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Quinn could have killed himself in any number of ways that could not immediately be classified as suicide.

He could have simply joined Voyager's crew as a security crewman and volunteered for every away mission. Some alien critter would have eaten him within three episodes of his joining up.

He could have had double servings of everything Neelix cooked, and then also laid in a personal stash of fat-rich alien junk food picked up at every opportunity. Within months, at most, he would have weighed in at 200 kilograms or more, and shortly thereafter would have clutched his chest and died quietly, albeit painfully, while alone in his cabin.

He could have forced himself to drink a quarter-liter glass of water every five minutes. An evening's drinking would have killed him so long as no medical aid was forthcoming from the doctor.

He could have opted to become a connoisseur of rotgut of the galaxy. In short order he would be suffering from severe liver damage, and within a few years he'd be ready to die. Since it should be his right to refuse medical care except in cases in which he poses a danger to others (as in being infectious), liver failure would leave him dying soon enough just so long as he tries hard enough to drink, and drink, and drink.

He could drop the Borg a line. The opportunity to assimilate someone containing the knowledge of the Q would be impossible to resist, and that would have the added benefit of leading to the inevitable termination of Janeway and associates. Even the Q could not fault Quinn for killing himself just before assimilation, especially as otherwise the Q continuum could be expecting some lurching, blankly staring visitors (besides Janeway).

And the list goes on.