Michael Brown Case

[Havok]

There will come a point in time when it won't just be black men rioting and it is coming a lot sooner than people think. And I'm not talking about the idiot douchebags trying to get in on some tennis shoes or TVs.

[Borgholio]

Sure but what if the evidence in this specific instance points out that the officer was charged by Michael Brown and they got into a scuffle which resulted in the shooting? That's not the same as the Zimmerman case where he definitely fit your categorization of "jumpy asshole"...with a helping of vigilante mixed in for good measure. What I'm trying to say is that if everything goes through impartially (plenty of evidence, reasonable consideration by the Grand Jury, and a decision based on facts and not emotion), and they decide not to indict because there's just not enough evidence...well that's justice plain and simple. But the protestors are not likely to accept that since justice delivered a decision they did not want to hear.

[JLTucker]

Everything I've read shows the evidence is somewhat in favor of the cop. He reached for the cop's gun. It wasn't as innocent as we think it is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/2 ... 32494.html

[Havok]

Even IF he reached for the cop's gun, it is 100% certain he never obtained it.

If this was a home invasion and you had the burglar running away or on his knees even after he may have gotten your gun, and may even have gotten a shot off, you would not be allowed to execute him. This is NOT Mega City Fucking One.

Or maybe that is exactly what is happening, because cops sure seem to be making the decisions judges and juries are supposed to be making.

[Kamakazie Sith]

That's true Michael Brown didn't obtain the firearm. If someone decides to fight a police officer and then decides to try and disarm him or remove his firearm then that act does raise the bar to deadly force only as long as that struggle is on going. Once this hypothetical person disengages then the justification for deadly force is gone. If this person decides to re-engage then the officer doesn't have to wait for their to be another struggle over the firearm.

[Patroklos]

That's not quite true for police as they have a duty to protect the people from demonstrated violent murderous assholes. Once (if) Brown demonstrated himself to be so depraved that he would violently assault an armed police officer, and we know now Wilson had received the report of the shop robbery that Brown matched to a T, he had every reason and duty to apprehend Brown even if he is running away because those types of people don't stop hurting others.

Does that mean stop by shooting him? No not in this case in my opinion, at least if he had kept running away, but there are plenty of circumstances where police are expected to shoot such as certain escaping prisoners for instance regardless whether they are armed or not.

[Dalton]

Decision expected at 8pm CENTRAL, 9pm Eastern.

[Lost Soal]

1am. Guess I'll find out in the morning

[Flagg]

Decision expected at 8pm CENTRAL, 9pm Eastern.

Bring the kids!

[Lonestar]

My phone woke me up because my police scanner App sent a notification helpfully informing me that 9000 people were listening to the Missouri Highway Patrol feeds. By the time I got to work it had hit 15000 people.

America loves a trainwreck, I guess.

[Borgholio]

Watching it live on CNN. So far the prosecutor's statements are not good for Michael Brown.

Edit - aw shit....here it goes. Took exactly three minutes for the riot to start.

[Agent Fisher]

Wilson is cleared.

[Thanas]

Not even a trial to find out the truth?

Yeah, I'd riot too.

[Borgholio]

Not even a trial to find out the truth?

Yeah, I'd riot too.

Well the idea is to determine if there is enough reasonable doubt for a trial. In this instance, the Grand Jury investigation was very unusual...it was more like a normal trial due to the sensitivity of the case, and they determined Wilson was attacked by Brown so there was no need for a full trial.

[Patroklos]

Apparently all evidence with the exception of whatever will allow identification of witnesses will be available shorty.

[Thanas]

They better have an excellent explanation ready for how they arrived at that position.

[Agent Fisher]

Wilson spotted Brown, matching the subject description from the strong-arm robbery, holding cigarollos in his hand, matching what was stolen. Wilson stopped to contact Brown, Brown reached into Wilson's SUV, tried to get his gun, Wilson fired, blood was on the inside of the car door, and on Wilson's gun. Brown took off running, Wilson pursued on foot, Brown turned and came towards Wilson. Wilson fired and killed Brown. That's sounds legit to me, but I'm sure since I'm an armed security guard and pro-police, my opinion is probably tilted in that way.

[Borgholio]

In a nutshell, forensics. It was determined based on ballistics that Brown had charged at Wilson, reached into the car, and struggled for the officer's handgun. They found bullets lodged in the inside of the car door as well as blood splatter and gunoowder residue showing very close range gunfire. All of the witnesses to the idea that Brown was fleeing were discounted based on the evidence.

[Joun_Lord]

Wilson spotted Brown, matching the subject description from the strong-arm robbery, holding cigarollos in his hand, matching what was stolen. Wilson stopped to contact Brown, Brown reached into Wilson's SUV, tried to get his gun, Wilson fired, blood was on the inside of the car door, and on Wilson's gun. Brown took off running, Wilson pursued on foot, Brown turned and came towards Wilson. Wilson fired and killed Brown. That's sounds legit to me, but I'm sure since I'm an armed security guard and pro-police, my opinion is probably tilted in that way.

I thought they determined Wilson was unaware Brown was a suspect in the robbery and stopped Brown and his friend because they were acting funny, walking in the middle of the road or something equally odd.

[Agent Fisher]

No, he got the info, acknowledged the description while on another call, got back in his cruiser and was going along. He wasn't actively searching for the subject, but did receive the BOLO. What people were saying was he wasn't out looking for the robbery subject, not that he wasn't aware of it.

[Patroklos]

They better have an excellent explanation ready for how they arrived at that position.

I am not sure if you are listening to the ongoing prosecutor announcement and questions but if the witness statements released are consistent with what he is saying its slam dunk. The damning witness statements are apparently all from African Americans.

The yellow socks makes the suspect identification from the earlier reported robbery pretty specific. It's hard to claim Brown was targeted because he was black with that criteria to link him to strong arm robbery (white t-shirt, yellow socks, red hat).

[Joun_Lord]

No, he got the info, acknowledged the description while on another call, got back in his cruiser and was going along. He wasn't actively searching for the subject, but did receive the BOLO. What people were saying was he wasn't out looking for the robbery subject, not that he wasn't aware of it.

Okay, that makes sense.

The problem with these cases is there is way WAY too much disinformation and half truths floating aboot to know whats goin' on.

[Thanas]

They better have an excellent explanation ready for how they arrived at that position.

I am not sure if you are listening to the ongoing prosecutor announcement and questions but if the witness statements released are consistent with what he is saying its slam dunk. The damning witness statements are apparently all from African Americans.

No I am not watching that.

[Broomstick]

If this was a home invasion and you had the burglar running away or on his knees even after he may have gotten your gun, and may even have gotten a shot off, you would not be allowed to execute him. This is NOT Mega City Fucking One.

While it is true that in my state you would not be able to legally shoot someone running away, if he's got a weapon and he's in your home you can, in fact, use lethal force. You don't have to, and if you do there will be a police investigation (which could potentially go against you and result in a trial), but even if he's "on his knees" that's a threat.

Now, outside on the street? Not so much.

In any case, we haven't seen the evidence that the Grand Jury did (at least not yet). From what the talking heads said the kid was NOT shot in the back. In other words, neither running nor walking away.

I am eager to see what evidence is released for the public to see.

[Broomstick]

Not even a trial to find out the truth?

The purpose of a Grand Jury is to determine if there is enough evidence for a criminal trial. If the evidence isn't there then there is no trial.

It's been stated the proceedings will be made available to the public in full in this case. That may be enlightening (I certainly hope it is).

IF the evidence is such that it backs the police story then the Grand Jury did the legally correct thing - or would you prefer to sacrifice an innocent man? On the other hand, if the evidence backs the kid's side, even weakly, tonight will not be the first night of rioting.

Actually, Ferguson tonight reminds me of the fucking 1960's all over again.