In other news: Israel to recieve $10bn economic bailout

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-20 01:08pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2867619.stm

$1 billion in military aid, $9 billion in loan guarantees.

Smells like Israel is getting paid not to behave badly while this war is on.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-20 01:14pm

Shit! What the fuck are we doing giving them money?

It probably is a bride for the to behave. Instead we should just tell them to cool it or they'll be in big trouble.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-20 01:15pm

More subsidized socialism...*groan*

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-20 01:59pm

No, no, no. Its only socialism when money is given to the poor. Giving money to the rich--or anyone with substantial political capital--is making an investment in the future.

This particular bribe was likely offered in response to earlier Israeli leaks to the effect that they intended to use the Iraq conquest as news cover to ethnically clense all non-Jews from the occupied territories.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-20 02:01pm

Enlightenment wrote:No, no, no. Its only socialism when money is given to the poor. Giving money to the rich--or anyone with substantial political capital--is making an investment in the future.

This particular bribe was likely offered in response to earlier Israeli leaks to the effect that they intended to use the Iraq conquest as news cover to ethnically clense all non-Jews from the occupied territories.

The Israeli economy is socialist. It is subsidized by the United States. Therefore, it is socialism subsidized by the United States.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-03-20 02:10pm

Enlightenment wrote:This particular bribe was likely offered in response to earlier Israeli leaks to the effect that they intended to use the Iraq conquest as news cover to ethnically clense all non-Jews from the occupied territories.

Ya better heil when ya say that, Pilgrim. You seem to know precious little about the internal workings of Israel and how the parties act there. Believe it or not, much of that money actually will float into the economy at large, especially in the forms of things like: free homeless shelters, a complete socialized medical system, heavily subsidized University level educations (it costs an Israeli student the equivilent of $2,500.00 to go to an MIT-level university for a year), and welfare programs to support many poor minorities.

Also bear in mind that Israel gives free medical care to the Beduoin (those would be Arabs, btw) that live within their borders.

Yes, some of it will also go to weapons.

And, yes, some of it will also go to Settler's movements like Yesha, which I think is land theft and immoral. But as so many people are fond of pointing out, it is never just a black-n-white issue.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-20 02:30pm

Where the fuck is all this money coming from? Every fiscal estimate I've seen on this war in Iraq indicates that it will cost a goddamned fortune: tens of billions of dollars at the very least, with a budget that could potentially skyrocket from peacekeeping costs. Does Shrubby think it's wise to send another ten fucking billion dollars to Israel?

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-03-20 02:35pm

Darth Wong wrote:Where the fuck is all this money coming from? ... Does Shrubby think it's wise to send another ten fucking billion dollars to Israel?

Actually, it may be money well spent. Think about what would happen if Israel engages in fighting during this-- a massive regional war could erupt, costing far, far more than the 10bil. outlay will cause. Not to mention thelives, the economic repercussions elsewhere, etc...

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-20 02:35pm

Durran Korr wrote:The Israeli economy is socialist. It is subsidized by the United States. Therefore, it is socialism subsidized by the United States.

Your sarcasm detector is broken.

Coyote wrote:Believe it or not, much of that money actually will float into the economy at large, especially in the forms of things like: free homeless shelters, a complete socialized medical system, heavily subsidized University level educations (it costs an Israeli student the equivilent of $2,500.00 to go to an MIT-level university for a year), and welfare programs to support many poor minorities.

Relevance?

Israel was given a bribe to behave itself while the reduction of Iraq is in progress. How Israel spends the bribe is not in contention.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-03-20 02:37pm

Darth Wong wrote:Does Shrubby think it's wise to send another ten fucking billion dollars to Israel?

Does Shrubby think at all?

Seriously though, anything to ensure the RAPTURE*

*Copyright Genocial Diety Industries, made with new blinding ignorance.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-20 02:42pm

Darth Wong wrote:Where the fuck is all this money coming from? Every fiscal estimate I've seen on this war in Iraq indicates that it will cost a goddamned fortune: tens of billions of dollars at the very least, with a budget that could potentially skyrocket from peacekeeping costs. Does Shrubby think it's wise to send another ten fucking billion dollars to Israel?

Perhaps he thinks he can make up for it from money made from oil contracts after the war in Iraq.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-03-20 02:45pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Coyote wrote:Believe it or not, much of that money actually will float into the economy at large...
Relevance?

Israel was given a bribe to behave itself while the reduction of Iraq is in progress. How Israel spends the bribe is not in contention.

You seemed to be implying that the money would be spent on "ethnic cleansing" activities using the Iraq war as a news cover.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-20 02:47pm

Darth Wong wrote:Where the fuck is all this money coming from? Every fiscal estimate I've seen on this war in Iraq indicates that it will cost a goddamned fortune: tens of billions of dollars at the very least, with a budget that could potentially skyrocket from peacekeeping costs. Does Shrubby think it's wise to send another ten fucking billion dollars to Israel?

One billion actually. The other nine billion will only cost the US if Israel's economy gets so bad they cant make payments. One billion dollars is less then a single two thousandth of the US government budget.

Hell the 80 billion that Bush wants for Iraq is only about a third of the estimated amount of pork in the US budget.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-03-20 02:48pm

Enlightenment wrote:This particular bribe was likely offered in response to earlier Israeli leaks to the effect that they intended to use the Iraq conquest as news cover to ethnically clense all non-Jews from the occupied territories.

Clarify: that the Israelis are going to use the money for ethnic cleansing, or that the Israelis were threatening ethnic cleansing and the US administration gave then a bribe not to do it?

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-20 02:55pm

Darth Wong wrote: Where the fuck is all this money coming from?

$9 of the $10 billion is in loan guarantees. They won't cost the US a cent (except for administrative overhead) unless Israel defaults.

The remaining $1 billion is in military aid, all of which will come back to the US defense industry in the form of procurement contracts. It's basically yet more corporate welfare for the Friends of Shrub.

Does Shrubby think it's wise to send another ten fucking billion dollars to Israel?

Arguably it's better to pay them off than to leave Sharon to stir the regional shit even more while everyone is distracted by the Iraqi conquest.

Coyote wrote:You seemed to be implying that the money would be spent on "ethnic cleansing" activities using the Iraq war as a news cover.

I said nothing of the sort. I said that they were bribed not to engage in ethnic clensing. Think before you leap.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-20 03:55pm

What do people mean when they refer to this 'pork'?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-20 03:59pm

HemlockGrey wrote:What do people mean when they refer to this 'pork'?

Pork is just an all-inclusive term for wasteful government spending. Robert Byrd is the King of it.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-20 04:04pm

HemlockGrey wrote:What do people mean when they refer to this 'pork'?

Government waste and unnecessary projects. Generally any spending bill with only one sponsor is consider pork, as there almost always crap that benefits that Representative or Senators district but does little of importance. The last Federal budget had something like 1200 of them, with a total cost running into the hundreds of billions.

However it will always exist because it pork that helps get people reelected. If you're in power you can point to the pork you grabbed your district the last time around, while a challenger has nothing but promises.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-20 04:10pm

Coyote wrote: Yes, some of it will also go to weapons.

I'd rather it ALL go to weapons. We have
our own problems here without having to prop up another
country's socialistic economy

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-03-20 04:11pm

While I'm not so sure about the amount, I'm not necessarily opposed to this idea. Not taking steps to keep Israel out of this conflict could potentially turn into a disaster.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-20 04:27pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:While I'm not so sure about the amount, I'm not necessarily opposed to this idea. Not taking steps to keep Israel out of this conflict could potentially turn into a disaster.

Agreed. However paying what amounts to an extortion fee to a petty little thug like Sharon isn't perhaps the best way to do it. The problem with giving in blackmailers is that they always come back and demand more; see North Korea for an example of this.

Using the stick might have been a better idea. Reading Sharon the riot act and tell him to forget about all economic aid and security assistance in the event of Israel taking advantage of the situation would have sent a better message not just to Israel but also to the rest of the Arabs.

Lord of the Lurkers · Post by **Lord of the Lurkers** » 2003-03-20 04:29pm

Actually it is even more than what you have here. We have been giving Isreal $3 Billion annually since 1979, I don't know if the $1 Billion mentioned here is on top of that. Also for every 3 dollars we give Isreal we give 2 dollars to Egypt. That was one of the agrements of the Camp David (Pres. Carter) deal. So Egypt has been getting $2 billion per year.

The loan guarentees are new however.

Just heard on the radio today that we are not yet giving Turkey the $6 Billion cash and $20 Billion loan guarentees. Although they have permitted overflight, the money was contigent on troop transmit overland & positioning in Turkey, which they are still saying no to.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-20 04:39pm

So we're basically paying Israel and Egypt to pretend not to hate each other. I do love the Middle East.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-20 05:26pm

Durran Korr wrote:So we're basically paying Israel and Egypt to pretend not to hate each other. I do love the Middle East.

Anyone ever think we ought to just give them all guns and bombs and let them kill each to their hearts content and then take the oil from the one guy left alive?

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-20 05:42pm

Stormy, this shit has been going on for 2 many years for guns and bombs.. What they need is a huge fence drop in a plane load or to of knives and clubs and run a suvivor type tv show and see which country comes out on top.. Nothing worse than religous zelots..