Legend of Korra Book 4 Talkback - "Balance" (Spoilers)

[Lord Relvenous]

I think its fine. This is episode nine-- they don't have much more episodes to go, so her recovery needs to get moving. I know of some people who were wanting more action from this season four episodes ago (although I don't necessarily agree with their opinions on pacing). Her inability to feel Raava within herself and flashbacks to battling Zaheer needed to be dealt with at some point, and having Zaheer himself help her come to terms was a brilliant move. When she asks him where the prisoners are and he says "no, but you do", I think "you" was directed at Raava, not Korra, considering how spiritual Zaheer is. And Korra realized this, because that's literally the second question she asks the spirit. I think there is a reason he emphasized that he thinks Korra has all the power in the world (which is a nice parallel to what Ozai said about Aang, btw). That power comes from somewhere, her connection to the Light Deity, but that connection rests on her self confidence. Raava herself bolstered that during her fight with the Dark Avatar/Unalock (before getting ripped out and beaten up). So it makes sense that having it bolstered again by someone important to Korra would help her reconnect.

Also, I like how Korra told Mako she could never forget what Zaheer did to her and her father, even if she was ready to move on. Again, nice parallel to Katara before her saying she could never forgive the death of her mother.

Besides, there are still a couple problems caused by Korra's trauma that she hasn't dealt with yet. We still don't know what the Dark Korra Specter is, or whether or not it was just a hallucination. She still hasn't dealt with the other three villains she faced in her memories, although doing that will be tougher since two of them are dead. And we don't know whether or not Korra can actually fight people like Kuvira without being crippled by her own self image (am I the only one who has noticed Korra use evasion more and more this season?). That gives them plenty of material for the next four episodes. Not to mention the other three or four plotlines they have going.

I'm not saying the developments they picked were bad. Zaheer helping her and her interconnecting to Ravaa are both good choices. They just felt like hurried developments, as if they were supposed to be handled with 2 episodes' time but only had 1. Episode 8 wasn't originally drawn up as a clip show, so the material intended for it had to be moved elsewhere.

[mr friendly guy]

Well Toph still kicks arse. Afterwards her back starts killing her. Awesome and funny both at once.

[Lord Revan]

Well Toph still kicks arse. Afterwards her back starts killing her. Awesome and funny both at once.

also explains while the old gaang (well members who are still alive) won't get involved that much, I mean only Zuko has been shown to gotten himself involved in recent events intentionally and even then he did stay mostly in the backround getting involved in fights rarely.

btw is it just me or does the new fire lord look quite like Ursa.

[Zor]

Can anyone get the calcs on this?

Zor

[Koolaidkirby]

I'm going to say it was at least 7 kilo-Varricks

[Murazor]

Can anyone get the calcs on this?

Zor

My best guess, which isn't really very good at all.

[mr friendly guy]

Ok Earth Kingdom tech is pretty badass if they can build a giant robot "25 storeys high." Now granted all things being equal they were better off making a giant tank, or several tanks. However the material science must be pretty good if they can create a robot that tall and not that wide, which can support its weight and not fall over.

[Mr Bean]

Ok Earth Kingdom tech is pretty badass if they can build a giant robot "25 storeys high." Now granted all things being equal they were better off making a giant tank, or several tanks. However the material science must be pretty good if they can create a robot that tall and not that wide, which can support its weight and not fall over.

Why not build a giant mech to carry you doom cannon? Heck why not use metal bending to control all the levers yourself instead of having a control crew do it? Because Kuvira that's why! You can't be The Great Uniter without some Wunderwaffe.

[Formless]

Yeah, if practicality were the most important thing to Kuvira and Bataar, they would have gone the same rout as Varrick and made a bomb type weapon instead. In fact, given the energy it delivers it probably would have been more destructive all around. City leveling destructive, rather than over-penetrating. But Kuvira clearly prefers intimidation over action any day, and a cannon that can snipe battleships from over a mile away, a 25 story robot made from the domes that once protected another conquered city, and a death ray that emulates the one a literal god of chaos and destruction used is pretty terrifying even if it is impractical.

Also, Bataar's acknowledgement that Korra's death threats no longer have the sincerity they had when Korra threatened to feed a corrupt judge to Naga makes me wonder if the same is also true of Kuvira-- her armies have never actually been seen fighting in battle, which makes me wonder if in fact they don't suck. It would make sense then that all the terrorism tactics she uses is to compensate for poor discipline or morale among the conscripted troops. Exactly like Su-Yin believed.

I loved the shot of former Equalist mech-tanks lined up behind barbed wire and Czech hedgehogs. It really goes to show how different war has become in this show. And I like how Korra saw Bataar's real weakness. She may have lost her killer instinct, but she hasn't lost her menace. She just has people skills now. I do wonder, though, why she hasn't brought up her real trump card-- that her next reincarnation will be in Kuvira's own Empire, and will almost certainly live the tyranny up close. Kuvira clearly hasn't learned the lessons of history.

[Steve]

Actually, I figure Kuvira wants Korra captive so she can execute her and guarantee the next Avatar in her territory, undoubtedly believing she can control said Avatar to solidify her rule.

[Mr Bean]

Actually, I figure Kuvira wants Korra captive so she can execute her and guarantee the next Avatar in her territory, undoubtedly believing she can control said Avatar to solidify her rule.

No question Kuvira thinks she can find the Avatar and brainwash the new one into a loyal follower of the Great Uniter.

[Formless]

Actually, I figure Kuvira wants Korra captive so she can execute her and guarantee the next Avatar in her territory, undoubtedly believing she can control said Avatar to solidify her rule.

I highly doubt that. First, Kuvira isn't that stupid-- its already been tried twice on Korra, once by her own extended family, and the next Avatar will have Korra's spirit to advise and inform him or her; so the next avatar will know that Kuvira murdered their predecessor and gained power through force of arms. This is recent history, not something that happened fifty or one hundred years ago. The Avatar Spirit is too stubborn and has a strong memory. Strong enough Korra practically treats Aangs family as her own-- and that family is the de-facto leadership of the Air Nation. Aang's predecessors appear to have personalities that were each a reaction to their predecessors: Kurruk was laid back whereas Yangchen overstretched herself (at least according to the comics). Kyoshi was then more serious and active even while living over 200 years... somehow (plot hole!). Roku was then more personable, but retained the serious attitude. Aang himself was the very stereotype of an Air nomad, always looking for a third option to problems so that he wouldn't be pigeonholed into a mercy-no mercy dilemma like Roku. And Korra herself is a reaction to Aang's one tragic flaw-- his reluctance to accept his role as Avatar. What kind of Avatar do you think would succeed Korra if Kuvira actually killed her?

Moreover, the Avatar isn't easy to identify at birth-- even Korra took four years to find and distinguish out of the huge crowd of Water Tribe hopefuls (and likely many deliberate frauds as well), and she was the youngest Avatar to ever learn her status. The fact that Korra was born to the royal/chief family of the Water Tribes at a time when that family was divided and corrupt so soon before Harmonic Convergence makes me suspect that the Avatar's reincarnations are not random, but happen wherever the Avatar will do the most good. Say, for instance, if the next Avatar was born into a poor Earth Empire family, a multi-cultural Republic family, or even orphaned like Mako and Bolin (remember, Fate is a reality of their world) so that he or she will see Kuvira's oppression up close and will be even harder to pick out in a nation that huge. We are, after all, talking about a population of millions now, and industrialization means it will grow even further from there. The Avatar's first influence is their family, and its clear that Kuvira's citizens hate her with good reason-- I doubt people will be eager to announce to the "Great Uniter" that their kid is The One.

Third problem: even if the next Avatar starts training as early in life as Korra did, it still took eighteen years before she was remotely ready to be the Avatar. Its a lot of training in physical, spiritual, and interpersonal/political skills, and even if Kuvira left out the last two... well, just look at Korra. She only learned those last two skillsets when she went out on her own and had to pick them up while dealing with crises. It took her fourteen years just to learn bending. Besides, the Earth Empire has been rounding up non-earthbenders, where would Kuvira find the Avatar instructors? If she lets the White Lotus society in, there goes the brainwashing. She can't go to the Red Lotus either, that's for damn sure. And if she lets the next Avatar travel the world as was traditionally done, the other world leaders will never let the Avatar return to the Empire without an army to go with them. That's the price you pay for murdering a living, breathing god who everyone looks up to as their savior.

And lastly... well, Kuvira is really the pathetic type who wants everyone to believe that she is the strongest, most powerful person in the world. She has to, since as a fascist tyrant that image is the single most powerful propaganda she has. It tells people that resistance is futile and that the most important thing is to be on the winning side. Just as the Vaatu-energy slinging robot is a symbol as much or more than it is a weapon of mass destruction. Clearly, to her Korra is competition and a symbol of resistance and rebellion, a threat to the stability of her rule, a threat to her personally, and the only person in the world with the same destructive potential as her new superweapon. Kuvira hasn't said it yet, but I think that she believes as much as the other villains that the Avatar is obsolete, and believes that she can fulfill the role as well or better than the Avatar can. That, most of all, is why I don't think she would ever bother to brainwash the next Avatar-- just get rid of them swiftly and efficiently, or leave them be like an arrogant dumbass.

[Steve]

A decent counter-argument. Another possibility is that she would be ruthless enough to try the Red Lotus approach again with any Avatar born in the Earth Empire.

Although, as you noted.. it's probably just as likely a new Avatar would be born among, say, exiles who fled to the Fire Nation after the fall of Republic City.

[Lord Revan]

and then there's the issue that if Korra feels threatend enough she might give full control to the Avatar spirit and from what we've seen "mass destruction" is an understatement that even a "feral" Avatar can do, I mean Aang was even bigger pacifist then Korra is atm due to his Air Nation upbringing but when he went full on "wrath of god" mode you'd better "be somewhere else" if you valued your life (like those fire nation invaders noticed after Aang and ocean spirit filed their warships or when Ozai got his ass handed to him and nearly got killed at the end of ATLAB)

[mr friendly guy]

Nice battle with the giant mecha, and I guessed a satisfactory end to the battle.

The epilogue felt like there should be more, which unfortunately there is not. There are things I would really like to know, like does Korra ever regain the connection to her past lives. I suppose Nick will have some spin offs like comics to show what happens next.

[Mr Bean]

Yes, the ending could have done with a bit of trimming and Kuvira's surrender is surprising considering no an hour ago she was blowing up her husband to be. There very weird parts that feel rushed which we can blame on the clips show I'm guessing. But still I liked how most things ended and a new spirit portal? Interesting...

But the fact this is the end of Avatar? I mean, it's like ending a WWII documentary just as they test the first A-bomb. It does not feel like the end so much as the part where we stopped watching.

Last note... Korrasami is real.

*Edit from reddit

So one of the Legend of Korra storyboard artists had THIS to say regarding the ending with Korra & Asami:

"They didn’t hold hands in the early animatic that I saw. OR look at each other like that. So I had thought the ending was more up in the air romance-wise for Korra.

It just took me off guard was all."

So Bryke literally wanted to keep Korrasami so secret, they didn't even let certain storyboard artists know about the ending.

That is insane. That means Bryke, yes, Bryke wanted Korrasami to become clearly canon and they changed/hid the ending to make it even more obvious!

I...am...crying tears of joy.

[Guardsman Bass]

Definitely felt like they were showing as much as they could get away with on the Korrasami front. The hand-holding, that last shot in the portal - should make for some interesting spin-off comics if they go down that route.

[Joun_Lord]

I don't watch this show as I'm the very definition of a slow-poke (I'll watch Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones before the end of the decade, maybe) and not even caught up on the original Avatar. I got friends who watch it and thus have absorbed the gist of it through nerd osmosis. The pals of mine are freaking out about the ending, with some comparing it to the ME3 ending.

Apparently there was no build-up to the Korra/Asami relationship at all. As one of my friends put it, "Its like if at the end of Return of the Jedi Han and Luke decided to get together."

They aren't complaining that Korra is gay (which is debatable, I'll get to that later) but the fact according to them it came out of nowhere. It feels like a PC check-box was checked or done to titillate fans. Much of the same arguments put forth against it were similar to the arguments here against a out of nowhere gay Captain America.

However just some chicas holding hands doesn't mean they are gay. While big strong men who gotta hold in their feelings bro and the only physical contact they get with their friends is very homo-erotic full contact football or wrasslin', women seem to be more touchy. I've had several female friends in high school who would hold other girls hands and not because they were dating or gay but because I guess they liked being closer to their sisters, female power, nature goddess stuff, I don't know, women be confusing and strange creatures, they just did and still dated guys. What I guess might be considered irony is they only stopped when popular preppy chicks started accusing them of being gay (strangely guys didn't seem to mind them holding hands, I have no idea why) and bullying them for it.

Is that correct, there was no build up to some hot animated girl on girl action? Did they seem more like besties rather then something more? If I watch Korra by atleast 2025 will I still be hip?

[Steve]

Your friends have a particular view of context. Because, honestly, it did have build-up. They've been building up the Korra-Asami relationship since the start of Book 3. If it wasn't as visible in Book 4 (and believe me, it still had moments), it was only because the plot didn't even have Korra meet Asami again until the seventh episode... of thirteen. And with one of the following episodes being a clip episode (in which they still had time together with Asami nurturing Korra as she considered things and ruminated about her life). Even then in the second episode we find out that during her two and a half years living in the Southern Water Tribe recuperating from her poisoning, the only member of her group that she wrote letters to was Asami.

A lot of things are subjective, so I don't necessarily find fault with people who didn't consider these things signs of a growing relationship, but to categorically state there was no build-up is pretty limited in viewpoint in my opinion.

[Mr Bean]

Is that correct, there was no build up to some hot animated girl on girl action? Did they seem more like besties rather then something more? If I watch Korra by atleast 2025 will I still be hip?

Have to disagree. Watch Season 1 and 2 of Legend of Korra and you'll get hints only that they like each other but the focus is much more on the Korra-Mako-Asami love triangle with both Korra and Asami going after Mako. However by the end of season 2 it's all over for Mako as in the end neither girl really likes him. By the end of season 3 you see Korra and Asami hanging out more and more leading to season 4 where everything becomes much more clear with lots of quiet talks about how much each of them misses the other, about how sorry Korra has been she's not sent more letters with both sides really opening up on their feelings and lots of hand holding and hugging. And some compilation posts points to the fact that what was Mako and Korra became Asami and Korra.

More over Season 3 really put a point on it. Whever Korra is there also goes Asami who replaced Mako in this role.

[Lord Revan]

that said the build up was sudtle enough that you could kind of argue for most of the series that they were just really close friends, but it was still there, so if for example the network censor had vetoed that relationship it wouldn't have seemed that wierd for Korra to hook up with someone else but it would felt that there was wasted potential there.

[Guardsman Bass]

There were a few scenes in particular that really cinched it for me, even before the ending. There was a bit in Season 4 where Korra and Asami are at a table, and Mako walks up and starts talking to them . . . and he felt like such an outsider to what was going on between Korra and Asami. I remember thinking, "Yep, I think the Korrasami folks are on to something".

So, yeah, bisexual or gay. I'm inclined to think "bisexual", since both Korra and Asami did seem genuinely attracted to Mako while the relationships were still on-going in seasons 1 and 2.

[Joun_Lord]

From how you guis describe it I guess one could interpret it as a very close friendship rather then any actual attraction, thus explaining my pallies thought of no attraction between the two. Though one can interpret it the other way too and even some close friendships can be interpreted as two people like liking each other even when there is no attraction.

Girl friends with their cooties and sleep-overs tend to be close to each other compared to guys (even physically close), and would naturally stay in touch with each other compared to staying in touch with some douchebag guy pal (which seems to be the implication of Mako from these posts) especially if doucheguy was a former flame of the two, shit would be awkward between them maybe. They would also be more likely to open up to each other then compared to their guys friends, talk about "girly" things like feels.

With nothing overt about their relationship being dropped (even the ending bit can still be interpreted as BFFs holding hands) compared to actual kissing in boy/girl relationships as a quick google search shows (assuming they aren't shooped as I see a few pics of Korra kissing Korra which I doubt was in the show but hell if I know). Of course being a kids show and being beholden to whiny parents who don't want their kids "warped" by seeing two ladies love each other, not to mention the fucknozzles who would send death threats to a 5 year old over a gay couple, they probably couldn't show an overt display of PDA for a lesbian couple even if they actually are.

[Guardsman Bass]

It was shopped. The Korrasami kiss gif was made by a fan.

[bilateralrope]

Korrasami was subtle enough that I don't see it as the only interpretation of what we saw on screen. On that note, do we know anything about how homosexuality is viewed in the Avatarverse ?

But the fact this is the end of Avatar? I mean, it's like ending a WWII documentary just as they test the first A-bomb. It does not feel like the end so much as the part where we stopped watching.

It feels like a good end point for Korra's story. The Earth Kingdom transitioning to democracy isn't likely to be interesting to watch and the spirits just hang around for the most part. There is a lot of potential for stories involving the next Avatar. Though the biggest hurdle there is Nickelodeon. Them not promoting season three then shifting it to online only says it was a series they didn't know what to do with. The short break between season 3 and 4, along with the budget reduction, doesn't make sense unless Nickelodeon was having some financial problems.