I could use some debating pointers

[Battlegrinder]

Ok, so long story short, I decided to try joining spacebattles and see how it goes, and have had some issues in some debates there ( This one, for example). I could use some feedback as to whether or not I'm doing something wrong, or if this is just an unavoidable personality conflict that won't easily be solved.

I think my comments start on page 10 or 12, and most of the issues I had were with another named Mith.

I'm not sure if this is the right page for this thread, I'll happily move it or request that it be moved if it is.

[Borgholio]

When dealing with VS debates, I've found that it helps to always stay on the offensive. Ask your opponent for proof, ask them for links, ask them to propose ideas that may be better than yours. If they come up with an argument that has holes in, then rip it apart. Have your own stats, links, and proof ready to throw at them if they make a BS claim. Try to stay away from being too defensive because it will give them the idea that they're winning and only give them more momentum.

[Battlegrinder]

When dealing with VS debates, I've found that it helps to always stay on the offensive. Ask your opponent for proof, ask them for links, ask them to propose ideas that may be better than yours. If they come up with an argument that has holes in, then rip it apart. Have your own stats, links, and proof ready to throw at them if they make a BS claim. Try to stay away from being too defensive because it will give them the idea that they're winning and only give them more momentum.

That's one of the things I was doing.

The big issue that kept coming up was the issue of canon. I felt that the shows were the main canon and should be favored over the TM in case of a disagreement, my opponent was of the opposite mindset, and stated that the shows visuals where just created for dramatic purposes and shouldn't be trusted, while the TM could. We've gone back and forth on this point forever, and neither of us seem to be making any headway.

[Borgholio]

What you see and hear on screen always trumps what is in the books, even the TM. Unless it is stated by the producers that they used the TM as a basis for what they see in the show, then the TM was nothing more than an addendum meant to expand on what's in the show. In the case of Star Trek, the TM has several notable chronology and scientific errors that don't match up at all with what is seen and heard in more than one ST series or movie. So if he quoted something from the TM, then you'll have to contradict it with something seen on screen and force him to explain the inconsistency.

[Batman]

So how does he explain the giant Porsche 911 in the main shuttle bay, the giant duck 2 decks below the bridge, the cargo plane two compartments forward of that, the apparent presence of Nomad a deck below that, and what very much looks like a giant motorboat immediate forward of the Captain's Yacht? Oh, and the giant mouse?

[Alyrium Denryle]

What you see and hear on screen always trumps what is in the books, even the TM. Unless it is stated by the producers that they used the TM as a basis for what they see in the show, then the TM was nothing more than an addendum meant to expand on what's in the show. In the case of Star Trek, the TM has several notable chronology and scientific errors that don't match up at all with what is seen and heard in more than one ST series or movie. So if he quoted something from the TM, then you'll have to contradict it with something seen on screen and force him to explain the inconsistency.

The problem is that the show contradicts itself. Repeatedly and often. Finding a contadiction with the TM is easy, but that same contradiction will itself be contradicted readily later.

I find that generally, it is a bad idea to try to prove your side will win. Instead, try to determine what side WILL win, without preconception. From there, use the source of information that is the most reliable/makes the most sense. For example, if the TM states that X amount of antimatter is in a photon torp, use that number, because the visuals in the show are not at all going to comport with anything that even looks like reality, and that is a perfectly reasonable figure. On the other hand, the TM gives shield, phaser, torpedo velocity/acceleration, and power generation figures that make absolutely no fucking sense given what we observe the ship doing. The shields cannot simultaneously shrug off multiple double-digit megaton M/AM torpedoes AND have an output measured in single digit terawatts.