UNICEF turning to shock tactics at game convention, WTF?!

[Purple]

Why the fuck do gamers deserve empathy anyways?

Because they are people too.

Please make a case why they deserve it any more than any normal person which gets "guilt-tripped".

They don't. But in this day and age frankly there is not enough empathy for victims of guilt tripping.

[Gaidin]

Why the fuck do gamers deserve empathy anyways? Please make a case why they deserve it any more than any normal person which gets "guilt-tripped".

Why the fuck is a cause so strapped for money it has to resort to functionally conning people into a room and then guilt tripping for funding if they're supposedly the right people to donate to?

[Jub]

Why the fuck do gamers deserve empathy anyways? Please make a case why they deserve it any more than any normal person which gets "guilt-tripped".

Why the fuck is a cause so strapped for money it has to resort to functionally conning people into a room and then guilt tripping for funding if they're supposedly the right people to donate to?

If they're that broke then obviously their tactics aren't working very well or they're doing a piss poor job budgeting what they have, neither inspire me to want to give them my money.

[Thanas]

Why the fuck do gamers deserve empathy anyways? Please make a case why they deserve it any more than any normal person which gets "guilt-tripped".

Why the fuck is a cause so strapped for money it has to resort to functionally conning people into a room and then guilt tripping for funding if they're supposedly the right people to donate to?

OMFG. You still don't get it, do you? IT IS A PUBLICITY STUNT. The intended audience were not and still are not the people in the video. The intended audience is us.

Because they are people too.

Oh yeah. And that makes them special how...?

Really, the only way you can do this if you somehow manage to show that Gamers somehow have it worse than ordinary people. Which I personally find hard to believe.

[Purple]

OMFG. You still don't get it, do you? IT IS A PUBLICITY STUNT. The intended audience were not and still are not the people in the video. The intended audience is us.

So what you are saying is that the people in the video are innocent victims of a scam whose only purpose is to market something toward a third party? Well here is your reason right there. These gamers are special because usually when someone tries to guilt trip you they at least don't go the extra mile to spit in your face like this.

[Gaidin]

OMFG. You still don't get it, do you? IT IS A PUBLICITY STUNT. The intended audience were not and still are not the people in the video. The intended audience is us.

Hey thanks for another reason UNICEF can take a long walk off a short cliff.

[madd0ct0r]

good derail there sidewinder, nice of you to counter my actual points. also mildy amused by how Jub and Gaidan managed to get themselves into a self-righteously reinforcing loop based on no facts whatsoever

Sidey, This will be my last post until you actually counter the points raised as opposed to playing pigeon chess.

[Gaidin]

good derail there sidewinder, nice of you to counter my actual points. also mildy amused by how Jub and Gaidan managed to get themselves into a self-righteously reinforcing loop based on no facts whatsoever

Sidey, This will be my last post until you actually counter the points raised as opposed to playing pigeon chess.

Sorry but 'because I'm an asshole' is not a good enough reason for me to donate. I already knew I'm an asshole. Usually you gotta do better than that. I have a small enough amount of money as it is. Especially if they want me to donate to them of all causes. See Jub's post about what they actually do with the money. Using it for publicity stunts isn't my style.

[Jub]

good derail there sidewinder, nice of you to counter my actual points. also mildy amused by how Jub and Gaidan managed to get themselves into a self-righteously reinforcing loop based on no facts whatsoever

Sidey, This will be my last post until you actually counter the points raised as opposed to playing pigeon chess.

Hey mad, read all my posts and you might get the I have a more nuanced stance than uuurgh UNICEF bad, gamers good.

[Thanas]

Sorry but 'because I'm an asshole' is not a good enough reason for me to donate. I already knew I'm an asshole. Usually you gotta do better than that. I have a small enough amount of money as it is. Especially if they want me to donate to them of all causes. See Jub's post about what they actually do with the money. Using it for publicity stunts isn't my style.

[

You do realize how advertising works, right?


quote="Purple"]So what you are saying is that the people in the video are innocent victims of a scam whose only purpose is to market something toward a third party? [/quote]

Oh yes, HOW DARE UNICEF? How dare they use images of disgusted gamer. Surely they owe those poor gamers an apology.

Get off your huge horse named indignity and enter the real world please. There are people starving there who UNICEF is trying to help. They help them by getting people to talk and donate. Guess what? People are talking about the video and thus about the issues.

If the feelings of poor gamers are hurt, tough break. I think even you would agree that those feeling of a few well-off predominantly white males who suffered less than an hour of a mildly uncomfortable slideshow are very, very small cakes compared to even one live saved by this campaign. And if you don't get that, then you better check your privilege.

Are you also of the opinion that when UNICEF makes a TV ad they are not allowed to show starving people? Because those images are a lot harder than anything of this crap.

Well here is your reason right there. These gamers are special because usually when someone tries to guilt trip you they at least don't go the extra mile to spit in your face like this.

Oh, being forced to sit through less than twenty minutes of a mildly boring/uncomfortable presentation is now spitting in your face? Shit, I better bring a bucket to my next conference then. Just last weekend, a dozen people apparently spit in my face.

Now, listen up, there is this thing called the real world. Hi. Sometimes in the real world, there will be uncomfortable things. You will see ugly images when you switch this box on that has the moving pictures. Part of being an ADULT is dealing with those things in a mature manner.

"Special" gamers my ass. "Oh no, how will I ever cope with this tremendous violation." Tell me, are these the same people who can't function in the real world? Have they ever had a job? Because every boss who yells at you for messing up is a lot harder than anything in this video. Fucking whiners. They should grow up and actually act like one of those tough men they portray in videogames. Last I checked, those heroes don't spend several days whining about a fucking slideshow.

[Purple]

Oh, being forced to sit through less than twenty minutes of a mildly boring/uncomfortable presentation is now spitting in your face? Shit, I better bring a bucket to my next conference then. Just last weekend, a dozen people apparently spit in my face.

No, but being used as an unwilling prop by someone else to market something to a third party is. How would you feel if someone took footage from what ever you did last weekend and used it to promote a cause in a way that portrays you negatively whilst doing so?

Now, listen up, there is this thing called the real world. Hi. Sometimes in the real world, there will be uncomfortable things. You will see ugly images when you switch this box on that has the moving pictures. Part of being an ADULT is dealing with those things in a mature manner.

And the "mature" manner in this case is to tell the lying, cheating scum of the earth who tricked you into watching this to go stick his propaganda and his cause up where the sun don't shine.

Fucking whiners. They should grow up and actually act like one of those tough men they portray in videogames. Last I checked, those heroes don't spend several days whining about a fucking slideshow.

No, they take a big sword or gun and slaughter whom ever is in their way. But I take it that's not what you want people to do now is it?

[Sidewinder]

The main problem with helping UNICEF help South Sudanese children, is the fact UNICEF can't handle the CAUSE of the children's suffering, i.e., the South Sudanese CIVIL WAR. Until the war ends- and this is something the South Sudanese must do themselves, as we remember how badly foreign intervention was greeted during the Somali Civil War- I don't see how foreign aid will be of help. It might even prolong the war and cause more suffering, if the warring factions seize aid intended to help the South Sudanese children, and use it to continue their fight. You might argue it might not, but that just emphasizes how unpredictable the consequences of foreign intervention (which includes aid) are.

In short, you're asking me to help a child whose parents are trying to kill each other, even setting their own house on fire, to burn the other side. The way I see it, the best way to help will be to take the child out of that environment- meaning the child will be adopted by foreigners, NOT left in refugee camps within the war-torn nation; but that's apparently something UNICEF is unwilling to do.

[Sidewinder]

Another problem: If refugee camps are really as bad as described in UNICEF's video, then I have ZERO confidence in the people responsible for the camps' setup, and in the prospect of aiding these people. If I donate to UNICEF, will UNICEF hire more competent managers for the refugee camps, ensuring they have proper sanitation, that people are fed, and that children are protected and not forced into prostitution (as specifically mentioned in the video)? Or will the organization continue to throw good money down that hole?

[madd0ct0r]

sidewinder, you're still avoiding the argument.

It dosen't matter wether or not UNICEF is a good charity to donate to, the crux of the argument is wether it is ok for a charity to give a presentation to a bunch of people at a games conference, and use their reactions to reality to jolt other viewers out of complacency. The name of the charity is immaterial.

Now, are you going to answer my points?

[Thanas]

No, but being used as an unwilling prop by someone else to market something to a third party is. How would you feel if someone took footage from what ever you did last weekend and used it to promote a cause in a way that portrays you negatively whilst doing so?

I wasn't at a convention last week. But there is footage of me at conventions on the web. Do I care? No, I knew that that was one of the dangers of going to conventions. Do you see the word convention in there? Because being at a convention matters.

And the "mature" manner in this case is to tell the lying, cheating scum of the earth who tricked you into watching this to go stick his propaganda and his cause up where the sun don't shine.

Scum of the earth, eh? Propaganda, eh?

Are you using words again with no knowledge of what they mean? Or are you that special kind of retard that thinks the UN feeding poor people is bad? Because the only way you get to scum of the earth and propaganda is if you think that UNICEF is somehow a criminal organization which takes your money and go party.

No, they take a big sword or gun and slaughter whom ever is in their way. But I take it that's not what you want people to do now is it?

I see you haven't graduated past ego shooters in your gaming yet. Don't worry, you'll get there once you pass the age of 14. You are younger than 14, right? If not, go see a doctor.

Another problem: If refugee camps are really as bad as described in UNICEF's video, then I have ZERO confidence in the people responsible for the camps' setup, and in the prospect of aiding these people. If I donate to UNICEF, will UNICEF hire more competent managers for the refugee camps, ensuring they have proper sanitation, that people are fed, and that children are protected and not forced into prostitution (as specifically mentioned in the video)? Or will the organization continue to throw good money down that hole?

Oh, that is one special brand of ignorance. One probably has to be a fat white murican to even come up with that one.
You know why there are probelm in refugee camps? (Which, btw, are not always set up by UNICEF. UNICEF is mainly the guy who comes in after the camps have been established and then deals with the worst effects).
Because of a lack of money and resources.

So....because there is a lack of money, I refuse to give them money due to them not having any.

Great logic.

[Purple]

I wasn't at a convention last week. But there is footage of me at conventions on the web. Do I care? No, I knew that that was one of the dangers of going to conventions. Do you see the word convention in there? Because being at a convention matters.

There is a difference of footage existing and footage existing and being used for propaganda.

Scum of the earth, eh? Propaganda, eh?

Are you using words again with no knowledge of what they mean? Or are you that special kind of retard that thinks the UN feeding poor people is bad? Because the only way you get to scum of the earth and propaganda is if you think that UNICEF is somehow a criminal organization which takes your money and go party.

Anyone who engages in guilt tripping is scum. And given what the others here have said about their "success" in this endeavor I frankly agree that they might as well be using the money to go party. It'd produce about as much result for the people they are supposedly helping in the long term.

I see you haven't graduated past ego shooters in your gaming yet. Don't worry, you'll get there once you pass the age of 14. You are younger than 14, right? If not, go see a doctor.

I will have you know that millions of people of all ages, genders and professions engage daily in video game activities based around murder in order to alleviate their frustrations and anger. And that as a human being I find your dismissal of such things to be frankly insulting. But than again, you have overall in this thread shown very little respect for your fellow human beings.

So....because there is a lack of money, I refuse to give them money due to them not having any.

Great logic.

It is great logic. You don't throw good money after bad. If we refuse to give them any money until they provide a sensible and concise plan that we feel will work than by god that's what they will eventually have to do. And when they do that we can donate money and help them make a good plan a reality as opposed to throwing good money after a bad plan.

[Flagg]

Poor little BO smelling neckbeards. Next thing you know girls might wanna play too, -ICK- !

[Thanas]

There is a difference of footage existing and footage existing and being used for propaganda.

You don't know what that word means, do you?

Anyone who engages in guilt tripping is scum. And given what the others here have said about their "success" in this endeavor I frankly agree that they might as well be using the money to go party. It'd produce about as much result for the people they are supposedly helping in the long term.

Inform yourself about UNICEF.

I will have you know that millions of people of all ages, genders and professions engage daily in video game activities based around murder in order to alleviate their frustrations and anger. And that as a human being I find your dismissal of such things to be frankly insulting. But than again, you have overall in this thread shown very little respect for your fellow human beings.

I have no respect for those who think that being tricked into 30 minutes for a good cause is a huge violation and that this makes one of the most good-doing organizations on this earth the scum of the earth. I wouldn't call them my fellows and hesitate to even call them humans. For humans usually have a moral compass who those seem to be lacking.

It is great logic.

I don't think you know what that word means.

You don't throw good money after bad. If we refuse to give them any money until they provide a sensible and concise plan that we feel will work than by god that's what they will eventually have to do. And when they do that we can donate money and help them make a good plan a reality as opposed to throwing good money after a bad plan.

Quick, let me check on how much you know about UNICEF. Please produce and then criticize their last plans for africa.

[Sidewinder]

sidewinder, you're still avoiding the argument.

It dosen't matter wether or not UNICEF is a good charity to donate to, the crux of the argument is wether it is ok for a charity to give a presentation to a bunch of people at a games conference, and use their reactions to reality to jolt other viewers out of complacency. The name of the charity is immaterial.

Now, are you going to answer my points?

That was your question? It was lost amid your "Gamers SUCK!!!" ranting.

As for whether it was right for UNICEF to give presentations the way they did, any plan to "jolt [potential supporters] out of complacency" can have unpredictable consequences, and may harm the program instead of helping it. After all, the Japanese thought to "jolt America out of complacency" by attacking Pearl Harbor- did they foresee the full consequences?

Raising awareness for South Sudanese children is great and all, but I can't help but compare their situation to that of Somali children during the Somali Civil War. Will the South Sudanese actually accept our help, instead of rejecting it as "foreign intervention in internal affairs"? Can we actually help, instead of making things worse by tipping the "balance of power" between the warring factions?

[Purple]

You don't know what that word means, do you?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda

the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person.

In other words, just a sinister sounding synonym for advertisement.

Inform yourself about UNICEF.

I needn't. Not any more. By stooping to guilt trip tactics they have permanently and in perpetuity made them self unworthy of any support on my part. And nothing they do or say ever is going to change that.

I have no respect for those who think that being tricked into 30 minutes for a good cause is a huge violation and that this makes one of the most good-doing organizations on this earth the scum of the earth.

That is because you do not understand the principal. Being tricked into 30 seconds or even 1 1/30th of a second is a violation. Because it is a breach of trust. Time or other factors do not factor into this. If you can not understand that than I can not explain it to you.

As for guilt tripping that in it self is a violation as well. A violation and an insult. And anyone who tries to guilt trip you is in no uncertain terms spitting in your face.

I wouldn't call them my fellows and hesitate to even call them humans. For humans usually have a moral compass who those seem to be lacking.

You are the one who lacks a moral compass here. Your own words betray you. You basically think that UNICEF is a good doing organization and that thus anything they do is excusable. And that thus anyone who complains about them must be wrong.

Well sorry to burst your bubble old man. But good people some times do bad things.

I don't think you know what that word means.

I am so glad that we can talk this out like responsible adults and not stoop to childish insults.

Quick, let me check on how much you know about UNICEF. Please produce and then criticize their last plans for africa.

The others in this thread have done quite an adequate job of doing that for me. I do not feel like there is anything I can add to them.

[madd0ct0r]

sidewinder, you're still avoiding the argument.

It dosen't matter wether or not UNICEF is a good charity to donate to, the crux of the argument is wether it is ok for a charity to give a presentation to a bunch of people at a games conference, and use their reactions to reality to jolt other viewers out of complacency. The name of the charity is immaterial.

Now, are you going to answer my points?

That was your question? It was lost amid your "Gamers SUCK!!!" ranting.

As for whether it was right for UNICEF to give presentations the way they did, any plan to "jolt [potential supporters] out of complacency" can have unpredictable consequences, and may harm the program instead of helping it. After all, the Japanese thought to "jolt America out of complacency" by attacking Pearl Harbor- did they foresee the full consequences?

Raising awareness for South Sudanese children is great and all, but I can't help but compare their situation to that of Somali children during the Somali Civil War. Will the South Sudanese actually accept our help, instead of rejecting it as "foreign intervention in internal affairs"? Can we actually help, instead of making things worse by tipping the "balance of power" between the warring factions?

generally I try and indicate a question by using a piece of punctuation known as a question mark. Your lack of attention span is hardly my fault. Would you like me to reiterate the questions for you?

[Sidewinder]

UNICEF- and its supporters on this board- are trying to promote the cause of South Sudanese children, the way those responsible for No Pressure tried to promote the cause of environmentalism. Instead of emphasizing, "The children need help!" they resort to shouting, "Gamers suck!" When intelligent people ask, "Can we actually help, instead of making things worse?"- a valid concern, considering South Sudan is fighting a CIVIL WAR, and we remember what happened when the UN tried to help starving people in the Somali Civil War (the massacre of Pakistani peacekeepers, followed by an attempt to arrest the one responsible for the massacre, followed by "Black Hawk Down")- they just shout, "Gamers suck! You suck!" louder, instead of proposing solutions and alternatives. They are hurting their own cause, instead of helping it.

[General Zod]

I think if a charity wants to make a presentation at a gaming conference they can do it without the deceptive bait and switch tactics.

[madd0ct0r]

UNICEF- and its supporters on this board- are trying to promote the cause of South Sudanese children, the way those responsible for No Pressure tried to promote the cause of environmentalism. Instead of emphasizing, "The children need help!" they resort to shouting, "Gamers suck!" When intelligent people ask, "Can we actually help, instead of making things worse?"- a valid concern, considering South Sudan is fighting a CIVIL WAR, and we remember what happened when the UN tried to help starving people in the Somali Civil War (the massacre of Pakistani peacekeepers, followed by an attempt to arrest the one responsible for the massacre, followed by "Black Hawk Down")- they just shout, "Gamers suck! You suck!" louder, instead of proposing solutions and alternatives. They are hurting their own cause, instead of helping it.

LOL.

What I'm seeing is
1) a presentation is made at a gamer's conference which is used to make a youtube clip. Tagline being - real life is so horrible that even extreme gamers think it's too horrible.
2) bunch of people on the internet get defensive over the presented idea that 'gamers' like to do and enact horrible things
3) When the quicksand their argument is built on is point out, these people on the internet quickly switch to UNICEF YOU SUCK! and keep shouting in louder hoping people will forget about how they were originally arguing 2.



It's pathetic.

First questions I asked Sidewinder:

sidewinder:

1) Dosen't that point apply to all videos/images taken of people in video game conferences? Can you point to a single instance of a non-female gamer being identified online for being present at a video-game conference?
Counter-hypothesis: it's not a valid concern. 'Gamers' are not being singled out.
1A) do you have any evidence for part 1 or part 2 of this statement?
3) How is this relevant to the question of wehter gamers are whiny hypocrites?

He answered:
1) The people are specifically being used as a negative example. (which I think is a terrible answer as a human being but at least it's chorent.)
1A) misunderstood my question, I repeated it later, so we'll have a look at it there.
3) How is the fact some gamers are whiny hypocrites, relevant to the fact UNICEF advocates are self-righteous assholes?
So he either ducks the question or seeks to redirect it,, the line of argument seeming to be that UNICEF are bad and everything they do is bad and therefore the presentation was a bad thing that shouldn't have been allowed to happen.


I repeat the question 1A)

sidewinder: 1A) was

Addendum to that, those who attend video game conventions, are likely older and wealthier than the kind of people who play 'Hatred'- people who likely have their own families, and thus, more sympathetic to the plights of South Sudanese children. These people could've changed their minds, and offered support for UNICEF's programs; but after being compared to those who play 'Hatred', and crucified on this bulletin board...

I repeat, do you have any evidence for this statement?

He does not address it for another two posts, instead whining about his 5 minute google results of "Unicef bad"
In the third post he writes: "That was your question? It was lost amid your "Gamers SUCK!!!" ranting." AND THEN CONTINUES TO IGNORE THE QUESTION check it = http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 0#p3879933

Fucks sake, at this point I'm tempted to ask for a mod ruling. Sidewinder is clearly ignoring claims he made in his earlier argument, and is just moving on to topics he feels he has a chance at winning at, despite they fact they are irrelevant to the question of "whether it is ok for a charity to give a presentation to a bunch of people at a games conference, and use their reactions to reality to jolt other viewers out of complacency."

As for what makes for effective NGO work, I'm happy to see any of you in the Colosseum* on that. It's been a major part of my life for a while now, and I'd be happy to bet I know more about effective intervention as a NGO then any active member of this thread.

*assuming it's still there. If not, start a new, general, thread. It'll be fun.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Good lord, people. A little fuckin' perspective is in order. It's an objection to a charitable organization employing sleazy tactics. I bowed out of the debate because that perspective was being lost amidst an increasingly ridiculous drain-circling bitch-fit of an SDN argument where emotion trumps reason.

Sidewinder, Purple; Jesus you're making me look bad by association here. If Thanas and madd0ct0r want to ride off into the sunset atop their morally righteous steeds, let 'em. All sense of perspective on the issue has long since been beaten to death.