How will the universe end?
Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
How will the universe end?
How will it happen, after every star burns out, goes supernova or nova, and what will happen to the planets flying through space? I've heard also the "big crunch" theory, which the opposite of the big bang, where it will all come back together, that the universe expands and contracts.
There's a big rip theory floating around now, which holds that in billions of years, phantom energy will rip apart every atom in this universe.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
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ArmorPierce
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Yeah, the end sucks.
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To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Commander_Arvel_Crynyd
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Phantom menace rips up forecast for universe
BY TOM SIEGFRIED
The Dallas Morning News
(KRT) - Scientists have identified a new potential menace to the future of the universe, a mysterious force they refer to as "phantom energy."
It's the latest wrinkle in the never-ending debate over the universe's fate.
For decades astronomers have wondered whether the expanding universe would grow bigger forever, or someday collapse. About five years ago new evidence indicated that the universe grows at an accelerating rate, suggesting that the expansion would never stop.
More recently, Andrei Linde of Stanford University and colleagues have proposed that the universe might die young - collapsing in tens of billions of years - despite today's accelerating expansion.
In either scenario, the end wouldn't be so bad. An ever-expanding universe would cool down and anybody still around would slowly freeze. A collapsing universe heats up and everybody would slowly cook (before getting crushed).
But now comes another scenario, based on the dreaded phantom energy possibility. The universe could come to an end in a new way. You wouldn't be gently cooked and then crushed - you'd be torn to shreds. The end of the universe might turn out to be most aptly described as the "Big Rip."
In a paper appearing last week on the Internet, three cosmologists propose that phantom energy might offer the best solution to the mystery of the universe's accelerated expansion. Presumably the acceleration is powered by some form of "dark energy" exerting a repulsive force on space itself. Physicists have their ideas, but nobody really knows exactly what that dark energy is.
Various measurements do, however, reveal some of the dark energy's properties, providing clues to its nature. And those clues raise the specter of phantom energy, say Robert Caldwell, of Dartmouth College, and Marc Kamionkowski and Nevin Weinberg, of Caltech.
Understanding phantom energy does require learning some pretty advanced physics. Fortunately, that will take only a few paragraphs.
The key idea is what physicists call the dark energy's "equation of state." It's a measure of the energy's density (how much of it occupies each unit of space) and the pressure that the energy exerts. In fact, the equation of state is simply the pressure divided by the energy density. See, that's really pretty simple.
Of course, you have to believe that pressure can be negative (it can be). And actually, astronomers say, dark energy must have negative pressure – that's why the universe is accelerating. (Positive pressure acts just like matter or energy, increasing the force of gravity and therefore slowing the expansion. Negative pressure does the opposite, propelling space outward, causing the universe to accelerate.)
Measuring the equation of state would give scientists a way to choose from among various proposals for the dark energy's identity. If the dark energy's pressure and density are always equal (and the pressure is negative), the equation of state would be 1. That would correspond to dark energy that is constant through space and time, what Einstein called a "cosmological constant."
If the dark energy is some other force field that changes over time (popularly known as quintessence), the equation of state would be not quite so negative - maybe something like 1/3.
The latest observations indicate an equation of state more like 1, though - bad news for quintessence fans, and supporting the case for Einstein's cosmological constant idea.
But wait a minute, say the Dartmouth and Caltech physicists. The evidence does not guarantee that the equation of state is precisely 1. In fact, the evidence hints that the true value may be even more negative - something like 1.5 perhaps. In that case, space is full of phantom energy.
If so, "then the fate of the universe is quite fantastic and completely different than the possibilities previously discussed," the physicists write in their paper, available at xxx.lanl.gov/abs/astro-ph/0302506. "The phantom energy rips apart the Milky Way, solar system, Earth, and ultimately the molecules, atoms, nuclei, and nucleons of which we are composed, before the death of the universe in a 'Big Rip.' "
Furthermore, the death of the universe would arrive fairly soon in cosmic time – in one scenario, the dark energy becomes infinitely dense in a mere 22 billion years. Basically, that means space as we know it would cease to exist.
But all those bad things would happen even before the ultimate end. About a billion years before time runs out on space, galaxy clusters would be pulled apart by the strengthening phantom energy. With 60 million years to go, the Milky Way gets shredded.
"A few months before the end of time," the physicists write, "the Earth will be ripped from the sun."
With half an hour left on the cosmic clock, the Earth itself falls apart. With a fraction of a second remaining, atoms and molecules get torn to pieces as well.
All this sounds pretty grim. But there's hope. Forecasts of the future of the universe are about as reliable as predictions of next week's weather.
And besides, a Big Rip 22 billion years from now doesn't sound much more depressing than what's going on around the world right now.
BY TOM SIEGFRIED
The Dallas Morning News
(KRT) - Scientists have identified a new potential menace to the future of the universe, a mysterious force they refer to as "phantom energy."
It's the latest wrinkle in the never-ending debate over the universe's fate.
For decades astronomers have wondered whether the expanding universe would grow bigger forever, or someday collapse. About five years ago new evidence indicated that the universe grows at an accelerating rate, suggesting that the expansion would never stop.
More recently, Andrei Linde of Stanford University and colleagues have proposed that the universe might die young - collapsing in tens of billions of years - despite today's accelerating expansion.
In either scenario, the end wouldn't be so bad. An ever-expanding universe would cool down and anybody still around would slowly freeze. A collapsing universe heats up and everybody would slowly cook (before getting crushed).
But now comes another scenario, based on the dreaded phantom energy possibility. The universe could come to an end in a new way. You wouldn't be gently cooked and then crushed - you'd be torn to shreds. The end of the universe might turn out to be most aptly described as the "Big Rip."
In a paper appearing last week on the Internet, three cosmologists propose that phantom energy might offer the best solution to the mystery of the universe's accelerated expansion. Presumably the acceleration is powered by some form of "dark energy" exerting a repulsive force on space itself. Physicists have their ideas, but nobody really knows exactly what that dark energy is.
Various measurements do, however, reveal some of the dark energy's properties, providing clues to its nature. And those clues raise the specter of phantom energy, say Robert Caldwell, of Dartmouth College, and Marc Kamionkowski and Nevin Weinberg, of Caltech.
Understanding phantom energy does require learning some pretty advanced physics. Fortunately, that will take only a few paragraphs.
The key idea is what physicists call the dark energy's "equation of state." It's a measure of the energy's density (how much of it occupies each unit of space) and the pressure that the energy exerts. In fact, the equation of state is simply the pressure divided by the energy density. See, that's really pretty simple.
Of course, you have to believe that pressure can be negative (it can be). And actually, astronomers say, dark energy must have negative pressure – that's why the universe is accelerating. (Positive pressure acts just like matter or energy, increasing the force of gravity and therefore slowing the expansion. Negative pressure does the opposite, propelling space outward, causing the universe to accelerate.)
Measuring the equation of state would give scientists a way to choose from among various proposals for the dark energy's identity. If the dark energy's pressure and density are always equal (and the pressure is negative), the equation of state would be 1. That would correspond to dark energy that is constant through space and time, what Einstein called a "cosmological constant."
If the dark energy is some other force field that changes over time (popularly known as quintessence), the equation of state would be not quite so negative - maybe something like 1/3.
The latest observations indicate an equation of state more like 1, though - bad news for quintessence fans, and supporting the case for Einstein's cosmological constant idea.
But wait a minute, say the Dartmouth and Caltech physicists. The evidence does not guarantee that the equation of state is precisely 1. In fact, the evidence hints that the true value may be even more negative - something like 1.5 perhaps. In that case, space is full of phantom energy.
If so, "then the fate of the universe is quite fantastic and completely different than the possibilities previously discussed," the physicists write in their paper, available at xxx.lanl.gov/abs/astro-ph/0302506. "The phantom energy rips apart the Milky Way, solar system, Earth, and ultimately the molecules, atoms, nuclei, and nucleons of which we are composed, before the death of the universe in a 'Big Rip.' "
Furthermore, the death of the universe would arrive fairly soon in cosmic time – in one scenario, the dark energy becomes infinitely dense in a mere 22 billion years. Basically, that means space as we know it would cease to exist.
But all those bad things would happen even before the ultimate end. About a billion years before time runs out on space, galaxy clusters would be pulled apart by the strengthening phantom energy. With 60 million years to go, the Milky Way gets shredded.
"A few months before the end of time," the physicists write, "the Earth will be ripped from the sun."
With half an hour left on the cosmic clock, the Earth itself falls apart. With a fraction of a second remaining, atoms and molecules get torn to pieces as well.
All this sounds pretty grim. But there's hope. Forecasts of the future of the universe are about as reliable as predictions of next week's weather.
And besides, a Big Rip 22 billion years from now doesn't sound much more depressing than what's going on around the world right now.
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Robert Treder
- has strong kung-fu.
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- Location: San Jose, CA
This is what I think of when I think about the end of the world.
V
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
I think T.S. Eliot had it just about right.
Sorry, I tend to think more artistically than scientifically...
V
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
I think T.S. Eliot had it just about right.
Sorry, I tend to think more artistically than scientifically...
"On the infrequent occasions when I have been called upon in a formal place to play the bongo drums, the introducer never seems to find it necessary to mention that I also do theoretical physics." -Richard Feynman
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Darth Gojira
- Jedi Master
- Posts: 1378
- Joined: 2002-07-14 08:20am
- Location: Rampaging around Cook County
Talk about your PHANTOM MENACE.
"It's the end of the world as we know it,
And I'm glad......"
"It's the end of the world as we know it,
And I'm glad......"
Hokey masers and giant robots are no match for a good kaiju at your side, kid
Post #666: 5-24-03, 8:26 am (Hey, why not?)
Do you not believe in Thor, the Viking Thunder God? If not, then do you consider your state of disbelief in Thor to be a religion? Are you an AThorist?-Darth Wong on Atheism as a religion
Post #666: 5-24-03, 8:26 am (Hey, why not?)
Do you not believe in Thor, the Viking Thunder God? If not, then do you consider your state of disbelief in Thor to be a religion? Are you an AThorist?-Darth Wong on Atheism as a religion
And that's just the last bit of it, too. I love it; emptiness simply reverberates from it. It's beautifully frightening.Durran Korr wrote:Man, that is such a scary poem. T.S. Eliot depresses the hell out of me.
"On the infrequent occasions when I have been called upon in a formal place to play the bongo drums, the introducer never seems to find it necessary to mention that I also do theoretical physics." -Richard Feynman
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Dooey Jo
- Sith Devotee
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- Contact:
That idea would be a great movie.Commander_Arvel_Crynyd wrote:*snip*
"In 22 billion years, mankind faces its greatest threat ever; dark energy. There is only one man who can save them: Bruce Willis".
Why didn't Hollywood think of that...?
Oh, and sorry 'bout the thread hijack, I just couldn't resist
...
Mai smote the demonic fires of heck...
Faker Ninjas invented ninjitsu
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Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi
- What Kind of Username is That?
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I found an article that said that eventually, more and more of the universe would become dark matter, and after trillions of years, galaxies would be so far apart that they wouldn't be visible, and stars would eventually die out, and since the matter is so far apart, only a few would form.
And I'm sure Hollywood will do a movie on something like a black hole, where a few actors to stop it in only a few days with a small nuclear bomb.
And I'm sure Hollywood will do a movie on something like a black hole, where a few actors to stop it in only a few days with a small nuclear bomb.
BotM: Just another monkey|HAB
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Illuminatus Primus
- All Seeing Eye
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- Contact:
I believe hearing about in the open universe theory the possibility of a phase transition in the cosmic vacuum energy. (no that is not technobabble)
That if there's a lower stable state of the vacuum energy, quantum theory might demand that at some point in the universe, someday, it might be more likely the vacuum existed in the lower energy. A phase transition in the cosmic vacuum energy would transform the universe and change the laws of physics in its wake, if I remember correctly.
That if there's a lower stable state of the vacuum energy, quantum theory might demand that at some point in the universe, someday, it might be more likely the vacuum existed in the lower energy. A phase transition in the cosmic vacuum energy would transform the universe and change the laws of physics in its wake, if I remember correctly.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Before this phantom energy thing came around, it's been said that when the universe expands far enough, subatomic particles would become the size of planets or something.
Yes, in the far, far future, a subatomic particle will be bigger than the hunk of rock we live on. Interesting.
Of course, if humanity does not die out by then, it would probably have developed some kind of method to escape the universe, or transcend physical form into some kind of trans-dimensional existence.
Yes, in the far, far future, a subatomic particle will be bigger than the hunk of rock we live on. Interesting.
Of course, if humanity does not die out by then, it would probably have developed some kind of method to escape the universe, or transcend physical form into some kind of trans-dimensional existence.
What's her bust size!?
It's over NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!!!!!!!!!
It's over NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!!!!!!!!!
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Kuroneko
- Jedi Council Member
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- Contact:
But if every particle is enlarged by the same factor (and their various properties like electric charge), wouldn't the net effect be completely unobservable (even theoretically) and hence irrelevant?Shinova wrote:Before this phantom energy thing came around, it's been said that when the universe expands far enough, subatomic particles would become the size of planets or something.
"The fool saith in his heart that there is no empty set. But if that were so, then the set of all such sets would be empty, and hence it would be the empty set." -- Wesley Salmon
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Shaka[Zulu]
- Jedi Knight
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- Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL USA
I like the VSL thoery... as the universe expands, more ZPE builds up... once a critical threshold is reached, we have another BANG, releasing a new wave of matter into the universe... repeat ad infinitum (the universe never had a beginning, and shall never end as it is born from its' own ashes)
panty-stealing military mecha maniac
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TheDarkOne
- Youngling
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Sorry, dude.TheDarkOne wrote:Damn it, I was going to post that poem...
Have any of you heard of Dr. João Magueijo's VSL (varying speed of light) theory? It's really interesting (challenges Einstein's constant of the speed of light always and forever being 186,000 miles per second) and poses a new theory as to how the universe creates itself and is reborn continually.
"On the infrequent occasions when I have been called upon in a formal place to play the bongo drums, the introducer never seems to find it necessary to mention that I also do theoretical physics." -Richard Feynman
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GrandMasterTerwynn
- Emperor's Hand
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- Location: Somewhere on Earth.
Re: How will the universe end?
The universe will continue to expand, even far into the future, well after all the protons in the universe have decayed.Shrykull wrote:How will it happen, after every star burns out, goes supernova or nova, and what will happen to the planets flying through space? I've heard also the "big crunch" theory, which the opposite of the big bang, where it will all come back together, that the universe expands and contracts.
Tales of the Known Worlds:
2070s - The Seventy-Niners ... 3500s - Fair as Death ... 4900s - Against Improbable Odds V 1.0
2070s - The Seventy-Niners ... 3500s - Fair as Death ... 4900s - Against Improbable Odds V 1.0
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SyntaxVorlon
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5954
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- Location: Places
- Contact:
Sorry guys it has to be said and I'm the Vorlon to say it:
In Fire
But on a lighter note:
Always look on the Bright Side of life
Always look on the Light Side of life
If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps.
Just perse your lips and whistle, that's the thing.
And...
Always look on the Bright Side of life
Always look on the Right Side of life
For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain...with a bow.
Forget about your sin
Give the audience a grin
Enjoy it, it's your last chance anyhow!
So...
Always look on the Bright side of Death
Just before you draw terminal breath
Life's a piece of shit
When you look at it.
Life's a laugh, and Death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all show
Keep'em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And...
Always look on the Bright Side of life
Always look on the Right Side of life
(repeat chorus fading)
In Fire
But on a lighter note:
Always look on the Bright Side of life
Always look on the Light Side of life
If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps.
Just perse your lips and whistle, that's the thing.
And...
Always look on the Bright Side of life
Always look on the Right Side of life
For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain...with a bow.
Forget about your sin
Give the audience a grin
Enjoy it, it's your last chance anyhow!
So...
Always look on the Bright side of Death
Just before you draw terminal breath
Life's a piece of shit
When you look at it.
Life's a laugh, and Death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all show
Keep'em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And...
Always look on the Bright Side of life
Always look on the Right Side of life
(repeat chorus fading)
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Darth Fanboy
- DUH! WINNING!
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- Location: Mars, where I am a totally bitchin' rockstar.
Prsonally I think we're looking at trillins of years and then Entropy.
Then the whole mess begins again.
Then the whole mess begins again.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little."
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
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UltraViolence83
- Jedi Master
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: 2003-01-12 04:59pm
- Location: Youngstown, Ohio, USA
The End will occur when Allah brings it about at Judgement Day, infidels.
Hehe...
Seriously, I like that "Universe being born out of it's own ashes" type thing myself. Just an intuitive feeling about it...
WHEN THE EUPHRATES(sp?) DRIES UP, ARMAGEDDON IS AT HAND! SURRENDER YOUR SOUL TO CHRIST OR PERISH!
That is all. Have a nice day.
Hehe...
Seriously, I like that "Universe being born out of it's own ashes" type thing myself. Just an intuitive feeling about it...
WHEN THE EUPHRATES(sp?) DRIES UP, ARMAGEDDON IS AT HAND! SURRENDER YOUR SOUL TO CHRIST OR PERISH!
That is all. Have a nice day.
...This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old...ultraviolence.
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Queeb Salaron
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 2337
- Joined: 2003-03-12 12:45am
- Location: Left of center.
Man, everyone's talking about the Big Crunch and Phantom Energy... What ever happened to good ol' fundie fire and brimstone? I was looking forward to a three-headed beast with a naked chick on its back tearing Babylon to shreads... And the Dixie cups of suffering or whatever. You know, when Jesus turns into Judge Mills Lane, turns to Satan and says, "Let's GEDDITONNN!"
I need to stop taking this cold medicine...
I need to stop taking this cold medicine...
Proud owner of The Fleshlight
G.A.L.E. Force - Bisexual Airborn Division
SDnet Resident Psycho Clown
"I hear and behold God in every object, yet I understand God not in the least, / Nor do I understand who there can be more wonderful than myself."
--Whitman
Fucking Funny.
G.A.L.E. Force - Bisexual Airborn Division
SDnet Resident Psycho Clown
"I hear and behold God in every object, yet I understand God not in the least, / Nor do I understand who there can be more wonderful than myself."
--Whitman
Fucking Funny.
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Trytostaydead
- Sith Marauder
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