What would it take for melee weapons to make sense...

[lance]

Yeah... I'm more interested in how to increase the "plausibility factor" than the actual hard science. The only real sense I'm getting is "nothing else works except for these special melee weapons" and "said special melee weapons can't just be broken down to make a bunch of bullets or other ranged weapon".

Since werewolves were brought up - imagine if you had a werewolf that literally could not be harmed by anything - not even suffering from the concussive force of explosives - save for these ultra special swords that almost nobody can make, and can't otherwise be turned into bullets.

I just sounds so preposterous, which is why I've tapped you all for some potentially feasible explanations... I just dislike the whole "cuz I said so" type of excuse.

Thanks again!

Have you looked into Knights of Sidonia?
Spoiler

At the start they only have 28 spears that can kill the aliens that destroyed the earth and drove humans to run a way at near light speed some hundred years ago. Getting bullets back after they get fired is nearly impossible, even getting the spear back from a destroyed unit proved impossible due to its relative momentum.

While the spears can kill the aliens, they can't penetrate its outer layer so the human forces still use a lot of guns to peel the outer layer off.

They get the ability to reproduce the material early in the series and immediately start using it in there machine guns.

With the teleportation example, it could make using guns and explosives dangerous to use.

Don't melee weapons tend to impact more energy to the target than most guns?

[bilateralrope]

So more vibroblade, than silver sword?

Lets go with magic sword. That should give the right idea for this discussion.

I just sounds so preposterous, which is why I've tapped you all for some potentially feasible explanations... I just dislike the whole "cuz I said so" type of excuse.

With my suggestion, there is a higher tech faction out there and everyone uses melee because they said so

Obviously they wouldn't be directly involved in the conflicts the author is writing about. Because when they show up, they show up with functional guns.

The high tech and/or ascended species who isn't directly involved in the affairs of the 'lesser' species is a common trope in sci-fi.

can I put wings on the swords and turn them into drone missiles?

You could. But how many of these sword missiles do you think a soldier will be able to carry ?

Then there is the cost of using the swords as missiles. Partly the cost in you buying more of them, partly in the cost of you giving free swords to your enemy.

4) It is routine for combatants to teleport around into point-blank range of each other, such that stabbing someone in the back with a dagger is only marginally more difficult than shooting them. This may not make guns obsolete, but it at least removes much of their tactical advantage.

Given the choice, I'd prefer to teleport behind someone and shoot them in the back with a shotgun or rifle than to teleport behind them and stab them with a dagger.

That depends. How loud is the teleporter ?

Do you want that guys friends to notice you quickly when they hear the gunshot, or take a bit longer because a knife makes a lot less noise ?

[Jub]

What if the defense against ranged attacks was some sort of nano or micro swarm that could deflect, dampen, or disable ranged attacks enough that armor or shields can take the punch of the current crop of ranged weapons. We could even say larger rounds were tried but anything explosive tends to get safely detonated, larger guided solid penetrators get their senors and control surfaces buggered with, and dumb rounds simply aren't deemed a practical solution. Your swarms can't detect other swarms at range for jamming reasons, but bullets are easy enough to spot that they don't need any specific guidance to deal with them. In melee, or extremely close range gun fights, your swarm and their swarm finally have enough sensor coverage to engage each other and pretty much cancel each other out.

This still isn't very plausible, but could work well enough as the basis for a story.

[biostem]

Another thought I had was an enemy that can make all or part of themselves intangible at will, with only this special material, which must be held in close proximity to them, forcing them to become solid. Regular bullets don't "loiter" near the target long enough to force them out of this state, but one could simply thrust a dagger or other melee weapon into the area the enemy inhabits, and hold it there for a few seconds to have said enemy solidify AND now have a weapon in them.

[Batman]

So why do they hang around for your weapon to have prestabbed them when they materialize? If the process takes several seconds that's ample time to get out of the way.

[Jub]

Another thought I had was an enemy that can make all or part of themselves intangible at will, with only this special material, which must be held in close proximity to them, forcing them to become solid. Regular bullets don't "loiter" near the target long enough to force them out of this state, but one could simply thrust a dagger or other melee weapon into the area the enemy inhabits, and hold it there for a few seconds to have said enemy solidify AND now have a weapon in them.

If this was the case wouldn't it make sense to airdrop ball bearing sized chunks of this stuff over enemy positions and then shoot them as the concentration of the stuff over the areas makes them vulnerable? Sure it requires some coordination, but if you have guns and your enemy is still thinking in terms of swords this gives you a huge advantage.

[Simon_Jester]

4) It is routine for combatants to teleport around into point-blank range of each other, such that stabbing someone in the back with a dagger is only marginally more difficult than shooting them. This may not make guns obsolete, but it at least removes much of their tactical advantage.

Given the choice, I'd prefer to teleport behind someone and shoot them in the back with a shotgun or rifle than to teleport behind them and stab them with a dagger.

Yes, but either option is likely to incapacitate someone. Being stabbed like that might not kill you if you get good medical attention, but it'll sure put a man out of the fight, most of the time. And, as noted, the shotgun tends to have side effects like creating a great deal of noise.

It doesn't make it impossible for people to use guns effectively, but it does vastly level the playing field.

4) It is routine for combatants to teleport around into point-blank range of each other, such that stabbing someone in the back with a dagger is only marginally more difficult than shooting them. This may not make guns obsolete, but it at least removes much of their tactical advantage.

Given the choice, I'd prefer to teleport behind someone and shoot them in the back with a shotgun or rifle than to teleport behind them and stab them with a dagger.

It does however lower the incentive to use a firearm, especially in a scenario where while inherently possible, using unobtanium to make ammunition instead of stabby things is a lot harder/more expensive.

I hadn't considered the idea of combining "can only hurt people with unobtainium" and "everyone teleports around a lot." I feel that adds too many layers of special assumptions. While people having teleportation powers is an interesting gimmick, people teleporting AND being immune to weapons is just... weird.

With the teleportation example, it could make using guns and explosives dangerous to use.

Don't melee weapons tend to impact more energy to the target than most guns?

Uh... no. A bullet easily has as much kinetic energy as you can put into, for example, swinging a baseball bat... and it imparts this energy in a way far more likely to cause harm and punch deeply into a target.

[Sky Captain]

Another possible scenario where melee weapons could be useful is if combat takes place in some sensitive installation. Suppose everyone has power armor that is durable enough to take fire from anything below high calibre machine guns and RPGs without much damage. If you try to take over anti matter factory or space station shooting RPGs or high calibre bullets would be bad idea and only way to minimize chances damaging something inportant or setting off something highly explosive would be to avoid using guns and engage enemy with melee weapons.

[Esquire]

How about a story taking place on a planet with very heavy gravity? If bullets had to deal with 3 or 4 times Earth gravity, early muskets, etc. might never have been effective enough to be widely adopted; it's not inconceivable that you could end up with otherwise advanced technology but never really get beyond pike blocks.

[Simon_Jester]

Honestly, you'd still see artillery and small arms would be developed to downscale from them sooner or later. Among other things, muskets still work tolerably well even after considerable projectile drop as long as you train to shoot up at even a slight angle. It might be trickier but still possible.

[Esquire]

Oh, certainly, if the people involved are persistent - I was just trying to come up with a vaguely-plausible explanation for hand-to-hand weapons staying dominant. I thought making early gunpowder weapons even less effective compared to an equal volume of archers might do the trick.

[Zeropoint]

That depends. How loud is the teleporter ?

Do you want that guys friends to notice you quickly when they hear the gunshot, or take a bit longer because a knife makes a lot less noise ?

1) Silencer

2) Shoot & Scoot

[Cykeisme]

If you're willing to go pretty soft in terms of sci-fi, basically adjusting the sliders on the following factors will allow a configuration where melee weapons are justified:

- Super strong unobtainium materials
- The cost of aforementioned materials
- Weird magitech technology capable of cutting through those materials
- Cost of the technology that cuts through those materials

If the materials are expensive enough (rare or difficult to manufacture) that personal armor is justifiable per unit cost, but shooting off projectiles made of that expensive material is not justifiable, then we can have troops armored up to be resistant to most attacks.
You might have to throw in magitech "inertial dampeners" to explain why they don't get pulverized by the sheer impulse of getting hit by huge amounts of kinetic energy.

Now throw in technology that's capable of cutting through the materials, that necessarily requires it to be used in a form that ends up being melee weapons (e.g. lightsabers, or a force field that covers a melee weapon).

Finally, make the cutting technology too expensive and/or bulky, that it is impractical to employ projectiles which mount the force field generator.

Would I be wrong in saying that by setting those variables appropriately, we can justify the use of melee weapons?

[Simon_Jester]

That depends. How loud is the teleporter ?

Do you want that guys friends to notice you quickly when they hear the gunshot, or take a bit longer because a knife makes a lot less noise ?

1) Silencer

2) Shoot & Scoot

The biggest problem might actually be lining up on a target consistently. In the field, widespread at-will teleportation makes almost any fixed position immensely dangerous. Standing still long enough to shoot someone might well result in you getting shot, and a good defensive position will be an obvious target for enemy teleporters.

[Zeropoint]

Well, if it would "take a bit longer" to use the knife, then using the gun puts you at an advantage in terms of time spent standing around killing, yes?

To clarify, I'm not talking about teleporting to a spot 300 yards behind your target to carefully snipe them. I'm talking about teleporting five feet behind them so you can shoot them without even aiming, which should be just as fast if not faster than a knife, with the advantages of being a more powerful attack and not requiring you to get into melee range.

[Cykeisme]

Many of the justifications here don't really tip the favor toward melee, because a shotgun or submachinegun would still work better.

For example, the protective, projectile-deflecting nanite swarms that cancel each other out when one combatant is near to another, or the constant rapid teleportation.

In either of these, it'd still be better to use an automatic firearm than a melee weapon.

[Zeropoint]

That's pretty much what I was getting at.