New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7540
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Zaune »

CBS Local, via Techdirt
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Police Commissioner Bill Bratton announced Thursday that the NYPD is establishing a new anti-terror strike force.

The unit of 350 cops will be specially trained in high-tech weaponry to deal with protests, “lone wolf” attacks and evolving threats posed by terrorists, CBS2’s Marcia Kramer reported.

The Strategic Response Group, Bratton said, will be dedicated to “disorder control and counterterrorism protection capabilities.”

“It is designed for dealing with events like our recent protests, or incidents like Mumbai or what just happened in Paris,” the commissioner said.

Funding for the new squad is expected to come from both the city and federal Homeland Security grants.

“They’ll be equipped and trained in ways that our normal patrol officers are not,” Bratton said. “They’ll be equipped with all the extra heavy protective gear, with the long rifles and machine guns — unfortunately sometimes necessary in these instances.”

The group will be able to more quickly respond to dangerous and fluid conditions, WCBS 880’s Peter Haskell reported.

“We’ll be able to give them smartphones, tablets, keep them constantly updated about threats against the facility they guard and if there’s a particular suspect we’re looking for,” Bratton said.

The commissioner said that while the anti-terror response put together after 9/11 was good, the upgrade is necessary to protect strategic locations, houses of worship and iconic landmarks. The changing face of terror threats, including Islamic State extremists and homegrown threats such as October’s ax attack on police in Queens, make it necessary for a new NYPD response, Bratton said.

“And instead have a cadre of 350 specifically trained officers, specifically equipped to perform that highly skilled duty of protecting sites against terrorism,” Bratton said.

The new unit will also move away from depleting neighborhoods of their cops, 1010 WINS’ Juliet Papa reported.

“We’re able to leave them back in the precincts so they get an enhanced presence,” Bratton said.

Roy Richter, president of the Captains Endowment Association, said he supports the move.

“That’s a great idea,” he told Kramer. “To the extent that you relieve the drain on resources in the neighborhoods by assigning an officer to an anti-terror function … I think that’s a very positive thing.

“There’s been a dialogue that’s been happening, which is positive. Any time you have a dialogue and develop a relationship and can see the people you’re speaking to, so this further assists that,” Richter added.

Bratton is also calling on the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to outfit all new subway cars with cameras that would be monitored on the train by an officer in the conductor’s booth, as well as at an off-site location.

The commissioner said he will also ask Mayor Bill de Blasio for more funding to buy more Tasers as an alternative to the use of force. Bratton reportedly wants at least 450 cops — five or six at each of the city’s 77 precincts — to carry Tasers on them, not leave them in their cars, Kramer reported.

Bratton admitted he had more work to do to bring up the morale of the department. A poll done by the NYPD found that a majority of cops fear getting sued or being disciplined by the department.

The commissioner also hinted he would be asking the mayor to hire more cops.
The Commissioner of the NYPD just conflated peaceful(ish), constitutionally-protected protest marches with politically-motivated spree killings. I'm afraid to even ask whether "machine guns" is just a slightly melodramatic way of saying "fully automatic assault rifles" or if the NYPD proposes to mount GPMGs on their SWAT trucks.

No good can possibly come of this.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog
User avatar
Ahriman238
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4854
Joined: 2011-04-22 11:04pm
Location: Ocularis Terribus.

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Ahriman238 »

But you handle both the same way, right? With overwhelming firepower?

Yeah, this cannot possibly end well.
"Any plan which requires the direct intervention of any deity to work can be assumed to be a very poor one."- Newbiespud
User avatar
Joun_Lord
Jedi Master
Posts: 1211
Joined: 2014-09-27 01:40am
Location: West by Golly Virginia

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Joun_Lord »

Most likely the "machine guns" will just be the bog standard AR-15 derivatives they currently got. Still bad though, I don't even trust the NYPD with a semi-auto handgun. Them rocking fully semi-auto weapons with extended clips will be bad for whatever black people are the current object of their ire.

They probably do need a special task force to deal with turrirst threats and a SEPARATE one to contain protests, because lets be honest protests do quite often get out of hand. However considering NY is relatively quiet with terrorist threats, protests, and crime in general there is little need to have Judge Dredd wannabes riding about in armored vehicles while wearing either bullet resistant armor or riot gear or tactical gear that the media mistakes for body armor.

They should be like SWAT teams were intended, rapid reaction forces that are separate from regular policing and called on rarely. Like SWAT teams now who are used to serve warrants and do pretty standard arrests, these cunts in uniform will too be used for regular shit. Think the dude getting choked by regular cops was bad, wait until some black guy allegedly selling stupidly expensive smokes gets attacked by goons in body armor carrying assault rifles and dozens of innocent bystanders are shot while the perp remains unscathed until some gorilla with a badge chokes him out.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Reading about this, I get a horrible suspicion that in a few months or a few years, we're going to see reports about the NYPD massacring a crowd of protesters Syria-style. Someone needs to get it through their heads that they are not the secret police of a dictatorship.
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Flagg »

It's time the police get policed by the people.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Joun_Lord
Jedi Master
Posts: 1211
Joined: 2014-09-27 01:40am
Location: West by Golly Virginia

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Joun_Lord »

Why do you hate cops Flagg? Why do you want the cops hands tied by enforcing regulations and restrictions that clearly only exist to endanger law enforcement? Why do you want dangerous hardened criminals like fat dudes selling cigs, children with airshit guns and Wii-motes, and mentally deranged individuals armed with teeny tiny knives to endanger heavily armed and armored groups of cops?

Its almost like you want the criminals to win!
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Flagg wrote:It's time the police get policed by the people.
I hope this isn't a thinly veiled attempt to advocate vigilante violence against cops. That won't help. That'll kill and hurt more people and give cops a pretext for more weapons and harsher tactics.
User avatar
Irbis
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2262
Joined: 2011-07-15 05:31pm

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Irbis »

Joun_Lord wrote:They should be like SWAT teams were intended, rapid reaction forces that are separate from regular policing and called on rarely.
You know what you're describing? Ironically, infamous motorised riot police squads of People's Republics. Yes, unlike Dredd wannabes from NYPD they actually were rarely called, only reacted to really big disturbances of public order or natural disasters, and their terrifying arsenal consisted of rubber sticks, water cannons and tear gas:

Image

Look at them, off the shelf bus cars with just regular glass (not even tempered) and officers walking in padded coats. No guns, no drones, no MRAPs, no bulletproof vests, no nothing. Yet I seem to recall US funded radio decried them as epitome of brutality breed by oppressive police state that would (and should) be banned in any free democratic country. As the rulers there needn't fear the society.

Heh :roll:
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Gaidin »

I...is there something with wrong with a disorder control group that lets most or many cops stay in their assigned stations? Honest question.
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Simon_Jester »

The real problem is that a 'disorder control group' has to have a defined role and doctrine. And a peaceful protest is not the same as a riot, a riot is not a terrorist attack, and a terrorist attack is not the same as an open rebellion that should be met with massed machine gun fire in the streets.
_______________

And... Irbis? What makes a police force brutal or non-brutal isn't their equipment, it's how they use it.

The NKVD was quite safe driving around in normal cars and motorcycles armed with nothing but sidearms and big baggy coats... but they enacted a reign of terror over a large area for many years. It wasn't their heavy weapons that made them frightening, it was their ability to target and imprison or kill anyone they pleased.

In and of itself there's no reason why heavily armed police are more dangerous to the public than lightly armed ones. The problem is in the training- the tendency for them to focus on using their weapons and not their wits, on trying to brutalize people into 'compliance' with unnecessary demands, on seeing the public as an enemy that you're driving through in a free fire zone.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Gaidin »

Simon_Jester wrote:The real problem is that a 'disorder control group' has to have a defined role and doctrine. And a peaceful protest is not the same as a riot, a riot is not a terrorist attack, and a terrorist attack is not the same as an open rebellion that should be met with massed machine gun fire in the streets.
Why should I assume that such a unit would run down and arrest people in a peaceful protest. I have every reason to assume such of a riot sure. But why should I assume the same of a peaceful protest. Bearing in mind, a peaceful protest and a protest in which antagonists are throwing blunt objects are two different things in my mind. One is peaceful, the other not. Granted one is not the level of violence of a, well, riot in my mind either.
User avatar
Joun_Lord
Jedi Master
Posts: 1211
Joined: 2014-09-27 01:40am
Location: West by Golly Virginia

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Joun_Lord »

Irbis wrote:
Joun_Lord wrote:They should be like SWAT teams were intended, rapid reaction forces that are separate from regular policing and called on rarely.
You know what you're describing? Ironically, infamous motorised riot police squads of People's Republics. Yes, unlike Dredd wannabes from NYPD they actually were rarely called, only reacted to really big disturbances of public order or natural disasters, and their terrifying arsenal consisted of rubber sticks, water cannons and tear gas:

Image

Look at them, off the shelf bus cars with just regular glass (not even tempered) and officers walking in padded coats. No guns, no drones, no MRAPs, no bulletproof vests, no nothing. Yet I seem to recall US funded radio decried them as epitome of brutality breed by oppressive police state that would (and should) be banned in any free democratic country. As the rulers there needn't fear the society.

Heh :roll:
As Simon said, its not so much their equipment but their attitude and methods.

I'd be totally fine with the NYPD having evil black cop killing assault weapons and body armor if they could be trusted to use them correctly, as in not being used to murder and oppress people (not necessarily in that order either). However they have demonstrated with that they cannot be trusted with handguns and their own hands, as they will use those tools to hurt and kill people who didn't need or deserve such treatment.

Police armed with just sticks and water cannons can be horrifically brutal. Look to US police during the civil rights era when cops armed with little more then sticks and water cannons, plus dogs the true symbol of evil police, brutalized protestors and marchers. They had no body armor, automatics weapons, armored vehicles, and rarely even had helmets yet they were undeniably oppressive and brutal in their actions.

The riot police of what I assume is Poland could easily be brutal despite not having the toys that the NYPD and other rich bloated police departments employ, though I've no idea of the brutality of Police po-po as the entire sum of my knowledge of Polish police is they exist and I'm not even 100% sure those pictured cops are Polish cops.

The problem with deploying SWAT for every situation is the fact SWAT is trained to react in highly volatile and deadly situations where usually there are armed and deadly motherfuckers that may need put down. And thats fine, some asshole with hostages or some serial killer or whatever that has shown to be willing to harm people is a threat and needs dealt with accordingly.

However the same response should not be employed against some asshole with a bag of weed or some nutter with a knife. Non or minimal threats that can be dealt with by regular police in usually a minimally violent manner. Its the difference between busting up some concrete and hanging a nail for a picture. You use the correct tool for the job, you don't take a sledgehammer to your wall to hang a pic of granny's droopy tits.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Gaidin wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:The real problem is that a 'disorder control group' has to have a defined role and doctrine. And a peaceful protest is not the same as a riot, a riot is not a terrorist attack, and a terrorist attack is not the same as an open rebellion that should be met with massed machine gun fire in the streets.
Why should I assume that such a unit would run down and arrest people in a peaceful protest. I have every reason to assume such of a riot sure. But why should I assume the same of a peaceful protest. Bearing in mind, a peaceful protest and a protest in which antagonists are throwing blunt objects are two different things in my mind. One is peaceful, the other not. Granted one is not the level of violence of a, well, riot in my mind either.

Because the NYPD lumped terrorism, riots, and protests into the same category, which gives us a pretty clear picture about what their training is going to be like (Which as Flagg just mentioned, is going to be heavily skewed toward violent and lethal responses to non-threats).

Because the NYPD (and associated judicial system, amendment dependent) does not have a good track record when it comes to respecting people's first, fourth, and fifth, sixth, and eighth amendment rights, peaceful protest or not.

Because the NYPD has been busted repeatedly for falsifying their statistics

Because the NYPD recently threw a giant hissy-fit over the mayor not sucking their cock after some of their number got away with manslaughter (again)

Because the NYPD likes to stop and frisk people for breathing while black

Do I need to go on?
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Gaidin »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Gaidin wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:The real problem is that a 'disorder control group' has to have a defined role and doctrine. And a peaceful protest is not the same as a riot, a riot is not a terrorist attack, and a terrorist attack is not the same as an open rebellion that should be met with massed machine gun fire in the streets.
Why should I assume that such a unit would run down and arrest people in a peaceful protest. I have every reason to assume such of a riot sure. But why should I assume the same of a peaceful protest. Bearing in mind, a peaceful protest and a protest in which antagonists are throwing blunt objects are two different things in my mind. One is peaceful, the other not. Granted one is not the level of violence of a, well, riot in my mind either.

Because the NYPD lumped terrorism, riots, and protests into the same category, which gives us a pretty clear picture about what their training is going to be like (Which as Flagg just mentioned, is going to be heavily skewed toward violent and lethal responses to non-threats).

Because the NYPD (and associated judicial system, amendment dependent) does not have a good track record when it comes to respecting people's first, fourth, and fifth, sixth, and eighth amendment rights, peaceful protest or not.

Because the NYPD has been busted repeatedly for falsifying their statistics

Because the NYPD recently threw a giant hissy-fit over the mayor not sucking their cock after some of their number got away with manslaughter (again)

Because the NYPD likes to stop and frisk people for breathing while black

Do I need to go on?
Yes actually, because logically, if something like Paris happens in New York they don't have to pull from the streets to lock down the roads and *keep people out*, something opposite but relatively related, while they call in SWAT. They call in them. Please, go further.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Yes actually, because logically, if something like Paris happens in New York they don't have to pull from the streets to lock down the roads while they call in SWAT. They call in them. Please, go further.
Terrorists and Mass Shooters are not the same as a peaceful protest or riot. But when you form a specialized unit to deal with ALL of those things, in a police department with a really bad institutional track record of handling things like protests because they are too brutal, you run a serious risk of well...

The officers in that specialist unit treating a riot with the same itchy trigger finger that they might treat a potential terrorist situation. The same thing happens with SWAT teams all over the country. They are great for dealing with hostage situations or compounds full of neonazis in Pennsylvania. They are REALLY BAD for executing search warrants for drugs. They tend to kill people who dont need killing with disturbing regularity. And that is with GOOD departments. Bad departments are, of course, even worse. And the NYPD is bad.

They have already indicated that in their own minds they lump terrorism and protests together. That is a bad sign.

If they had a small unit for dealing ONLY with terrorists, bombers, and mass shooters, that would be fine. But they are crossing operational streams in a bad way.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Gaidin, do you seriously think they'll only have these guys sitting around on their asses waiting for a terrorist attack that hasn't happened yet and might only happen once every few years? I don't. They might deploy them if they have protests/riots (although I'd love to see the rationale for anti-riot cops carrying machine guns as part of their riot suppression duties), but when those aren't happening they'll start using them like SWAT teams today on stuff such as no-knock warrants.

And the militarization of US police forces will continue afoot.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Gaidin »

No. I'm more interested in you guys proving your point with the policy loopholes than with some speech. Right now it's a unit that actually trains to handle crowds and so theoretically won't overreact like every other damn cop they just pull off the street that just got the dime's worth of training. You guys are being paranoid about a speech. Give me something to actually be paranoid about. The policy perhaps.
User avatar
Enigma
is a laughing fool.
Posts: 7777
Joined: 2003-04-30 10:24pm
Location: c nnyhjdyt yr 45

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by Enigma »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Flagg wrote:It's time the police get policed by the people.
I hope this isn't a thinly veiled attempt to advocate vigilante violence against cops. That won't help. That'll kill and hurt more people and give cops a pretext for more weapons and harsher tactics.
No but you could have something like a civilian version of Internal Affairs. One that has power to charge corrupt cops and do not have to answer to NYPD or its unions.
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)

"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons

ASSCRAVATS!
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: New NYPD Taskforce for Anti-Terrorism... And Protests

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Another organization overseeing the police is a very good idea.
Post Reply