Shooting in Denmark (possibly Islamic terrorism again...)

[Channel72]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... eech-event

One person has been killed and three police officers wounded after a free-speech gathering in Copenhagen ended in gunfire.

The event was attended by Swedish artist Lars Vilks, known for caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad. Vilks was led to safety after shots were heard, according to police.

“Everything points to this shooting” being “a terrorist attack,” Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt said in a statement. It “fills me with deep anger,” she said.

Among the guests debating the role of art, blasphemy and free speech at the Copenhagen event was the French ambassador to Denmark, Berlingske newspaper said. France is still reeling from the shock of the massacre last month at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo by men police say were radical Islamists. France immediately sent its condolences to the Danish government.

“The President of the Republic has expressed to the Prime Minister of Denmark Helle Thorning-Schmidt all the solidarity of France in this ordeal,” according to an e-mailed statement from Francois Hollande’s office. “Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve will travel to Copenhagen as soon as possible.”

Danish police said the suspects, who were clad in black and reported by an eye-witness to have spoken Danish, may have targeted Vilks. Swedish police are also on alert, according to newspaper Aftonbladet.

“We don’t yet know whether this was a terrorist attack but we’re investigating it as though it was,” police inspector Joergen Skov said at a press conference in Copenhagen. “We now have a lot of police stationed around Copenhagen” as the manhunt for the suspects continues, he said.

Free Speech

The planned debate on free speech took place in a cafe bordering one of Copenhagen’s largest parks. Because of the security risks, body guards and police were already present and able to fire back at the gunmen after they started shooting, Skov said. The three offices who were wounded in the crossfire didn’t sustain serious injuries, he said.

Denmark is home to newspaper Jyllands-Posten, which in 2005 published a series of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad that triggered violent protests across much of the Muslim world. Vilks’s 2007 drawing depicting Muhammad with the body of a dog left Swedish media divided, with some refusing to publish the image amid security concerns.

Police intelligence said Saturday’s attack shows the threat of a terrorist act taking place in Denmark is “serious,” in a statement sent by e-mail.

It's not confirmed that this is yet another attack on free speech by radical Islamists, but it's looking that way. Fortunately, the death toll is much less than what happened in Paris.

I wouldn't be surprised if the perpetrators aren't affiliated with any larger terrorist network, but are just lone actors who have been listening to too many angry rants from Imams on youtube.

[cosmicalstorm]

Given the huge Muslim population in Europe this is not a shock. These attacks will be routine in time to come. In the coming years Muslim militias will gradually reintroduce blasphemy laws, expel Jews from Europe and create large Sharia-zones. Cities like Copehagen and Malmo will be about as safe as Tripoli in a decade. Defiling the Prophet will definitely not be tolerated. Informal blasphemy-laws are here, it would be interesting to see the number of km2's of European cities that now have informal blasphemy-laws and gender segregation.
Lets hope I'm wrong and this is some Danish Breivikwannabe.

[Iroscato]

Given the huge Muslim population in Europe this is not a shock. These attacks will be routine in time to come. In the coming years Muslim militias will gradually reintroduce blasphemy laws, expel Jews from Europe and create large Sharia-zones. Cities like Copehagen and Malmo will be about as safe as Tripoli in a decade. Defiling the Prophet will definitely not be tolerated. Informal blasphemy-laws are here, it would be interesting to see the number of km2's of European cities that now have informal blasphemy-laws and gender segregation.
Lets hope I'm wrong and this is some Danish Breivikwannabe.

And of course, you will use your incredible abilities to accurately predict the future to help the Good Guys know what heinous plot they'll be cooking up next, right? Also, could you please show your source that explains everything I need to know about 'informal blasphemy-laws'? I'd be fascinated to read it.

[Crown]

Given the huge Muslim population in Europe this is not a shock. These attacks will be routine in time to come. In the coming years Muslim militias will gradually reintroduce blasphemy laws, expel Jews from Europe and create large Sharia-zones. Cities like Copehagen and Malmo will be about as safe as Tripoli in a decade. Defiling the Prophet will definitely not be tolerated. Informal blasphemy-laws are here, it would be interesting to see the number of km2's of European cities that now have informal blasphemy-laws and gender segregation.
Lets hope I'm wrong and this is some Danish Breivikwannabe.

Or we could stop mollycoddling the special ones (i.e. religious) and watch as the inexorable forces of time moderates them all. Mind you, we need a good economy for this to happen, since if there's one universal truth on the human condition it's if the money is fine people are generous, if it's not we revert to base tribalism.

[The Romulan Republic]

Given the huge Muslim population in Europe this is not a shock. These attacks will be routine in time to come. In the coming years Muslim militias will gradually reintroduce blasphemy laws, expel Jews from Europe and create large Sharia-zones. Cities like Copehagen and Malmo will be about as safe as Tripoli in a decade. Defiling the Prophet will definitely not be tolerated. Informal blasphemy-laws are here, it would be interesting to see the number of km2's of European cities that now have informal blasphemy-laws and gender segregation.
Lets hope I'm wrong and this is some Danish Breivikwannabe.

This is beyond idiotic and offensive. You equated a large Muslim population with inevitable terrorism, implying that Muslim automatically leads to terrorist. Then you go off on a rant about the inevitable Muslim takeover of Europe that would make a Right wing bigot proud, despite the fact that people resort to terrorism precisely because they don't have the power to impose the political change they want through conventional means (this is not an excuse for such despicable tactics, merely an observation about their causes). Honestly, as horrible as these individual attacks are, as a threat to society as a whole I'm honestly more concerned about a Neo-Nazi resurgence in Europe, field by the bigotry and paranoia of people like you.

[Lord Revan]

everytime I hear "muslims are gonna take over Europe" I wonder why these people forget that as large as the Muslim population in Europe is the Christian Population is larger by a very large margin. I can't think of any major European power that would have muslim majority (with maybe the possibible exception of Turkey depending on if you count it as part of Europe or not).

cosmicalstorm, I hazard to guess that you do not in fact live in Europe yourself.

oh btw that huge Muslim population according to poll I found in Wikipedia it's a mere 2% of the total and based on the map it included Turkey so that's pulling the figures up since Turkey has Muslim majority.

[Joun_Lord]

Given the huge Muslim population in Europe this is not a shock. These attacks will be routine in time to come. In the coming years Muslim militias will gradually reintroduce blasphemy laws, expel Jews from Europe and create large Sharia-zones. Cities like Copehagen and Malmo will be about as safe as Tripoli in a decade. Defiling the Prophet will definitely not be tolerated. Informal blasphemy-laws are here, it would be interesting to see the number of km2's of European cities that now have informal blasphemy-laws and gender segregation.
Lets hope I'm wrong and this is some Danish Breivikwannabe.

This is beyond idiotic and offensive. You equated a large Muslim population with inevitable terrorism, implying that Muslim automatically leads to terrorist. Then you go off on a rant about the inevitable Muslim takeover of Europe that would make a Right wing bigot proud, despite the fact that people resort to terrorism precisely because they don't have the power to impose the political change they want through conventional means (this is not an excuse for such despicable tactics, merely an observation about their causes). Honestly, as horrible as these individual attacks are, as a threat to society as a whole I'm honestly more concerned about a Neo-Nazi resurgence in Europe, field by the bigotry and paranoia of people like you.

Well a large muslim population will have some extremists, some willing to commit acts in Gawds name that Gawd is probably headslapping himself over so hard we get earthquakes.

Thats not a slight against Muslims, large populations of Christians will inevitably create douchebags afraid of the gays or willing to murder abortion doctors. Large concentrations of Jews (no pun was intended) allow morons who see Muslims as lesser beings, restrict the rights of women, and use children as sex toys.

Probably the same way with large concentrations of Buddhists and any other religion. Give us a hundred years and we will see extremist Jedi popping up.

Its probably not even a religious thing. In any large society like minded individuals will congregate together and reinforce their views, even attempting to one up each other. You see much the same thing occurring here on the interwebs on some message boards. A group of like minded people get together, eventually squeeze out moderates as they race to agree with each creating a circle jerk of "I agree", some people have to agree more to show ho much they are into whatever they are there for, and you wind up with a shithole that isn't very open to free speech, differing opinions, and everyone thinks they are better then everyone else.

Muslim extremists, and other religious extremists, are just IRL circlejerks (sometimes started by intertube interactions) that unfortunately can do a bit more damage then a raid to spam granny porn or a DDOS attack.

Again not a slight against the majority of Muslims, even more then pointing towards some idiots online like the guy who says SD.net Has Got To Go as examples of pretty extreme Trekkies is a slight against Trek fandom, its just how groups of people apparently work. Human nature I guess.

[The Romulan Republic]

Aren't extremist Jedi basically Sith?

Anyway, of course some Muslims are terrorists, but that's no excuse for resorting rabid fear mongering like cosmicalstorm was engaging in.

[Edi]

Given the huge Muslim population in Europe this is not a shock. These attacks will be routine in time to come. In the coming years Muslim militias will gradually reintroduce blasphemy laws, expel Jews from Europe and create large Sharia-zones. Cities like Copehagen and Malmo will be about as safe as Tripoli in a decade. Defiling the Prophet will definitely not be tolerated. Informal blasphemy-laws are here, it would be interesting to see the number of km2's of European cities that now have informal blasphemy-laws and gender segregation.
Lets hope I'm wrong and this is some Danish Breivikwannabe.

Tell me, how many new pairs of underwear shorts per day do you need to replace the ones you soil whenever anyone mentions Muslims?

[Joun_Lord]

Aren't extremist Jedi basically Sith?

Anyway, of course some Muslims are terrorists, but that's no excuse for resorting rabid fear mongering like cosmicalstorm was engaging in.

Mace Windu was pretty extreme without going darkside, willing to overthrow a government on the word of some kid he wouldn't let in his Council club completely because I guess Anakin wouldn't join in their philosophical circle jerk. Thankfully IRL Jedi are just dudes with bath robes and no force powers so even their extremists can't do more damage then any others.

And no, there is no excuse for the doom and gloom proclamations that evil Muslims will take over entire countries and turn Europe in Europastan. Painting an entire people as evil extremists can be what drives them into isolationist extremists who try to create their own enclaves with their own laws and junk.

Thats the thing too, even where Muslims take over from proud white Christian Europeons who never did nuffin its them usually setting up their own enclaves to be left alone. Thats still not good as its too easy for abuses to happen, honor killings and female genital mutilation imported to Muslim enclaves is a problem as is child rape and women rights problems in ultra-orthodox Jewish New York communities that I alluded to earlier. Still they aren't trying to take over the entire country or make people follow their own insane laws outside their areas (for the most part, extremists saying don't show Moohamhemad happens but is so remarkable not only because of the violence but because of the ludicrousness of a small group of people dictating laws based on their religious beliefs).

[Flagg]

Given the huge Muslim population in Europe this is not a shock. These attacks will be routine in time to come. In the coming years Muslim militias will gradually reintroduce blasphemy laws, expel Jews from Europe and create large Sharia-zones. Cities like Copehagen and Malmo will be about as safe as Tripoli in a decade. Defiling the Prophet will definitely not be tolerated. Informal blasphemy-laws are here, it would be interesting to see the number of km2's of European cities that now have informal blasphemy-laws and gender segregation.
Lets hope I'm wrong and this is some Danish Breivikwannabe.

Tell me, how many new pairs of underwear shorts per day do you need to replace the ones you soil whenever anyone mentions Muslims?

Have Muslims even reached Breiviks' "death toll" in Europe since the start of the 21st century?

[Channel72]

Have Muslims even reached Breiviks' "death toll" in Europe since the start of the 21st century?

Um... yes.

[Flagg]

That's right, always forget about Madrid.

[Channel72]

Cosmicalstorm is exaggerating the situation. The reality is that most Muslims are way more fanatical about the next Manchester United vs. Arsenal match than they are about Islam.

Still, it's a fact that Muslim communities in Europe are breeding grounds for Jihadist recruits who become radicalized by youtube Imams looking for young, unemployed/disillusioned Muslim men.

[amigocabal]

Cosmicalstorm is exaggerating the situation. The reality is that most Muslims are way more fanatical about the next Manchester United vs. Arsenal match than they are about Islam.

Still, it's a fact that Muslim communities in Europe are breeding grounds for Jihadist recruits who become radicalized by youtube Imams looking for young, unemployed/disillusioned Muslim men.

Radicalization can happen with anyone who perceives themselves to be alienated from the larger society. (See e.g. Elliot Rodger and Keith Luke)

I have heard entire societies can be radicalized if large segments lose faith in traditional social institutions.

[AniThyng]

Cosmicalstorm is exaggerating the situation. The reality is that most Muslims are way more fanatical about the next Manchester United vs. Arsenal match than they are about Islam.

Still, it's a fact that Muslim communities in Europe are breeding grounds for Jihadist recruits who become radicalized by youtube Imams looking for young, unemployed/disillusioned Muslim men.

Yeah but even the most moderate Muslim governed nations have blasphemy and religious laws that end up throwing apostates and blasphemers in jail if not executing them. I don't think this can really be ignored in discussion of Muslim tolerance for religious dissent.

[The Romulan Republic]

Cosmicalstorm is exaggerating the situation. The reality is that most Muslims are way more fanatical about the next Manchester United vs. Arsenal match than they are about Islam.

Still, it's a fact that Muslim communities in Europe are breeding grounds for Jihadist recruits who become radicalized by youtube Imams looking for young, unemployed/disillusioned Muslim men.

Radicalization can happen with anyone who perceives themselves to be alienated from the larger society. (See e.g. Elliot Rodger and Keith Luke)

I have heard entire societies can be radicalized if large segments lose faith in traditional social institutions.

I'd say Nazi Germany is a compelling illustration of that (and proof that it can happen in non-Muslim societies). Hell, you could argue that the Tea Party is a more moderate example.

[cosmicalstorm]

Lets hope I'm retarded and have been brainwashed by Right Wing propaganda then shall we.

I look at the Muslim world and see a haven of religious extremism, every country has blasphemy laws and other vile laws. I see the opinion studies done in the Muslim areas. Here in Sweden there were something like 50 % of the self identified young Muslims who held views about Jews that were equal to Nazis. There is double digit % support for Sharia and what we call terrorism (to their eyes IS must be like the rebel forces in Star Wars).

The demographics seems clear enough to me, this part of the population is growing rapidly and they will not forget their own cultural identity.
This population will vote for conservative parties and some of them (a larger percentage than of any other religion I suspect) will support terrorist groups.
I would be equally worried if thousands of hardcore bible-belt Christian rednecks were arriving in Europe every month.

Am I retarded to worry about this? What will happen to this huge population in the years to come?

It's not like Q is going to show up make them forget all about that religious stuff in the blink of an eye.

[Iroscato]

I see the opinion studies done in the Muslim areas.

Source?

Here in Sweden there were something like 50 % of the self identified young Muslims who held views about Jews that were equal to Nazis.

Source? 'Cause that is one hell of a statement to make without immediately providing relevant information.

There is double digit % support for Sharia and what we call terrorism

Source?

I would be equally worried if thousands of hardcore bible-belt Christian rednecks were arriving in Europe every month.

Well I've met several Swedish christians who came over here, I found them to be insufferable, bigoted, small-minded hypocrites. One of them is my step-uncle. I'd hate to think there are several million more like them, but I won't assume they all are as you seem to with muslims.

Am I retarded to worry about this?

Worry about it, perhaps, but don't dust off your soapbox and decry the spread of the EVIL MUZZY SCOURGE every time an event like this takes place. It does not help the situation, never has done and I hold little hope that it ever will.

[Eleas]

It's funny that you should mention the Nazis, cosmicalstorm, because they were among the earliest adopters of the lie of the Aryan Race being in a breeding war against the insidious Untermenschen who were (so the baseless claim went) having huge batches of children not because they wanted children but as a part of a strategy of war. This framed the argument in a way palatable to the Nazi mindframe and that of their successors, among which we have the Sweden Democrats and various pure neo-Nazi groups. One of these groups fought with Svoboda (as is common) and then went down to stab feminists on International Women's Day for a laugh (as apparently is also a common way they do things), if you remember. So no, we haven't just "Nazi-like" beliefs in Sweden, but actual Nazis. Their successors are in Parliament, apparently speaking for you. That is, when they're not online rhapsodizing about how Social Democrat "crones" should be "gang-raped" and how nine-year-old boys are congenital monsters because they're swarthy "bad seeds".

And what will happen to this actually huge population of SD and other organized, self-admitted bigots who have actual resources enough to try to destabilize the government if they don't get exactly everything they want (as happened, remember)? It's not as if the Nordic Model at one point didn't include Eugenics, after all.

[salm]

Pff... these terrorists will go away after a while just like all the other terrorists we´ve had since the dawn of time.

[Crown]

I see the opinion studies done in the Muslim areas.

Source?

You would have to be living under a rock not to come across some kind of polls on Muslim populations in the past decade or so, but you can use this; The Religion of Peace as a general bookmark site of lots of polls (and then you can do a discern credibility test for yourself on which to believe/trust as it's obvious that the webpage name is pushing an sarcastic narrative), or we could all just refer to the latest Pew poll data here if we want to use a common standard of trustworthiness.

[cosmicalstorm]

I see the opinion studies done in the Muslim areas.

Source?

Here in Sweden there were something like 50 % of the self identified young Muslims who held views about Jews that were equal to Nazis.

Source? 'Cause that is one hell of a statement to make without immediately providing relevant information.

There is double digit % support for Sharia and what we call terrorism

Source?

I would be equally worried if thousands of hardcore bible-belt Christian rednecks were arriving in Europe every month.

Well I've met several Swedish christians who came over here, I found them to be insufferable, bigoted, small-minded hypocrites. One of them is my step-uncle. I'd hate to think there are several million more like them, but I won't assume they all are as you seem to with muslims.

Am I retarded to worry about this?

Worry about it, perhaps, but don't dust off your soapbox and decry the spread of the EVIL MUZZY SCOURGE every time an event like this takes place. It does not help the situation, never has done and I hold little hope that it ever will.

Re the students opinions that comes from Forum för levande historia.

Statistik från Brottsförebyggande rådet och Forum för levande historia ("Antisemitiska attityder och föreställningar i Sverige") visar att 39 procent av vuxna muslimer i Sverige hyser tydligt antisemitiska åsikter, jämfört med 5 procent för hela svenska befolkningen. Bland gymnasieelever med islam som religion är det 55 procent som gör det.

http://www.expressen.se/kultur/judehatet-i-sverige/
http://www.levandehistoria.se/material/ ... -i-sverige

Dont stay awake over insufferable Europeans. I know of no country here that has rape victims lashed hundreds of times.

[Lord Revan]

AHEM!

did you check that said source was relible.

besides get this to your thick skull that none of the Nordic countries have muslim majority, I don't have the numbers in hand but I dout any of Sweden, Denmark or Norway have more then 10% of their total population that's muslim in Finland it's less then 1% IIRC, so I highly dout we'll be seen sharia law here anytime soon.

[Channel72]

He's not saying that European countries will officially embrace Sharia law, but that insular Muslim communities in Europe institute de facto Sharia law (or at least perhaps a less strict form of it), and that this problem is growing.

Although the general phenomenon of cultural enclaves instituting their own de facto laws/norms within the confines of a larger society is hardly unique to Muslims, it's just that Sharia law in particular is so vehemently antithetical to general Western values.