The Thanasiad [CKII LP] [NO 56k]

[Skywalker_T-65]

Justinian borders sounds good. You can choose to just port from the game at that point instead of playing on auto-pilot up to 1444. It won't adversely effect your starting technology in EUIV.

As for the EUIV-Vic2 converter, the only one I've heard of isn't a perfect one since it doesn't convert POPs properly, IIRC.

They've mostly fixed the issues with it. Every time Paradox changes things up (like the current mess China is in) it throws things out of whack, but right now it's fairly stable. Presuming we mean the same one, of course.

Now, the CK2-EUIV one is still funky. The last game I converted- less than a week ago -keeps getting corrupted ~50 years in. I'm still trying to figure out what got messed up there. Though they might have fixed it since, not sure.

[Steve]

I know the one I did got corrupted sometime in the 1570s.

And which EUIV-Vic2 converter are you referring to?

[Skywalker_T-65]

This one.

I just ran a Byzantine game- just from EUIV, didn't have CKII at the time -through about a month ago. Aside from a couple funky things like Bordeaux and the province next to it having nearly a million people each (when Paris had ~400k), it seemed to have no real POP issues. Cultures converted over properly, even in the mess that is post-AOW China. A couple provs like the aforementioned ones have either too small or too large populations, but for the most part...it's stable at least.

Granted, that was a month ago and I never underestimate the ability of people to screw things up even in such a short time.

[FaxModem1]

I say full speed ahead to Victoria II. Make the world the Byzantine Empire.

[Purple]

Speaking of those two, are they worth getting? In particular, how are the graphics? I have a lot of fun with CKII. But I managed to catch a glimpse of the HOI series on a friends PC and it has no unit graphics, just fugly designation squares. Which of the two approaches did they take for these two?

[Thanas]

Speaking of those two, are they worth getting? In particular, how are the graphics? I have a lot of fun with CKII. But I managed to catch a glimpse of the HOI series on a friends PC and it has no unit graphics, just fugly designation squares. Which of the two approaches did they take for these two?

EU IV is the best of all of them IMO. Clean UI, it is clear what is happening at all times.
VIC2 is my personal favourite because I like building ZHE GERMAN WORLD EMPIRE. (Not really. Mostly I play Bismarck and then try and have a liberal society). It is less complex than it appears but can be a bit overwhelming at the start. Best to be played with mods adding on more complexity.

HOI is an abomination. The headquarters systems sucks. I never could get into it.

[Purple]

Any mods you could recommend?

[Thanas]

Any mods you could recommend?

For Vic II the Pop demand mod is a must, similar to how HIP is a must for CKII.

[Skywalker_T-65]

-snip-

HOI is an abomination. The headquarters systems sucks. I never could get into it.

HOI 3 has its issues to be sure.

Personally, I break out Darkest Hour when I want to play that part of history. It's clearly an older game- being based on the HOI II engine and all -but it's a lot more fun. No HQ system for example. And it has models to begin with, instead of making them DLC like the newer game did.

[Thanas]

A chapter many of you have been waiting for....

Rome Sweet Rome


This is us and our focus. I thought hunting would be awesome.

HOLY SHIT. IT IS THE MOST BORING FOCUS EVER.
And worse - because it gives health boni you just live a longer, more boring live. UGH.


Our realm.


NEW EMPEROR, SAME SHIT.

You know why the AI does this? Because it does not take retinues into account when calculating the total troop strength.I only have around 16k in levies,. So every petty duke can in theory have a chance against me when only levies are looked at.

But: I got 32k in retinues and Varangian guardsmen. High quality troops and all that. I also got superior tech.
This would be so easy to fix but Paradox does not realize this.


'sup, Venice? How does it feel getting plundered over and over again?


Hunting. This was the only fun event chain in hunting.




(this was also the most interesting thing our wife did)

Hunter.


We decided to start our push into Egypt.
While we were busy smashing into the poor Egyptian armies, this happened:

*YAWN*. AGAIN?

You know how it goes...


Good dog.

New titles fix everything.

Life is so much easier when you are not hated by your vassals and got a furry companion. Who knew.

But....


...and this went on and on and on. Every five years a great hunt for the beast, every five years a failure.


We conquered the outskirts of Rome first....


and after the current pope had died, the time had come for a great plan of ours.

...and so, on a winter morning, the commanders of the tagmata were called into the Imperial chamber, a lavishly decorated room dominated by portraits and busts of the two great emeperors and empresses of this dynasty. There was Ioulianos III and the pirate Empress Despina and Cethegus and Gyla. There was only one meeting on this agenda - a return to the birthplace of the empire. The Emperor's voice was decisive and while the proceedings were made in secret, we full well know the Speech Emperor Justinian made to his troops:

"Brave soldiers of Rome. Too long have we been seperated from the waters of the Tiber, from the seven hills and the noble homes of our ancestors. For centuries foreigners have ruled over our patria. No more.

There will be no looting and no pillaging. For we return to our home.

Roma. Roma aeterna."
- The Thanasiad XXVI, 753.



The papal army, weakened by internal strife and mass desertion, was no match for the tagmata.


But the Pope had sent messengers to every prince in christendom. Only one state however dared to come to his help - The holy Roman Empire. Soon, reports came in of massive columns sneaking down the alps, to retake Rome in the name of Catholicism.

The HRE army marched on to Rome...



...only to collectively say NOPE when seeing the Tagmata march towards them in battle order.

The HRE tried to flee towards the north, trying to link up with further reinforcements.

But our superior logistics and military organization helped us catch up with their main column near Perugia.


The battle was short and merciless. Our heavy infantry swept everything before them while our light cavalry skewered any survivors. In one battle, the entire field Army of the HRE perished. Seeing no chance of challenging us, the Emperor of the HRE surrendered.




Rome was ours.


We quickly started a building program and poured massive amounts of funds to restore ruined buildings to their proper function. In particular, the Circus Maximus started rebuilding. After all, the hippodrome of Constantinople needed a twin in the east - and what better than the much older, much more glorious twin of old?


Latium, the cradle of Roman civilization, was once again the Demesne of the Emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire.

ROMA AETERNA.

(tbc in the next post)

[Thanas]

(cont'd from above)

The heretic pope finally found a new home in small, rainy, soggy and generally stinking Fulda in northern Germania. He now ruled over a city of less than 3000 people.

From there he continued to rail against our empire and requested that all catholic princes attack us together. Unsurprisingly, after the experiences of the HRE, everybody pretended not to get the letter.


We pushed further into Egypt. This time the target was much of the rich Nile Delta (except for Alexandria).


Tagmata land. Stupid AI tries to attack, then tries to flee. Tagmata catch stupid AI. War is won.


The Church started getting uppity. Haven't they learned yet that the only ones starving the peasants are us?


In Italy, things started to look up....


...but Lucca would make a good addition.


Battle decided the war. End of story. (Honestly, battles feel like they have a foregone conclusion now unless the AI smartens up)


Of course, Hunting was useless again.

It was time to retake another great city in the Empire - Carthage. After all, what was Rome without its african sister city to whom it was so dearly linked in the past?



The african AI proved to be no smarter than the Lombard AI. At least the HRE tried tactical maneuvers that were somewhat efficient.


So, let's recap:
This is the Emperor who crushed a revolt.
This is the Emperor who reconquered Rome and told the Pope what's what.
This is the Emperor who reconquered Carthage.
This is the Emperor who retook the Nile Delta.
This is the Emperor who was commended by his vassals.
This is the Emperor who got a great hunting dog.
This is the Emperor who makes an effort treating his vassals fairly, sharing titles, giving out honours and presents.

OF COURSE; YOU JUST GOT TO REBEL AGAINST SUCH AN EVIL TYRANT. I guess the only way the game knows how to balance itself is by creating the same revolts over and over again. And if you think this is a mod problem - no, it is not. If anything, with more honorary titles than in vanilla the mod alleviates these problems.


*sigh*

*double sigh*


....
yeah you just gotta release the same assholes who revolt over and over again.

Well, no more Mr. Nice Guy. Time for the lead revolter to loose something precious.
The Guy is called "the seducer".
Hmmm.....





Let that be a warning to all others.

However, we could not enjoy our palace in Rome like we wanted to, for despite the positive health traits from hunting, our rule ended abruptly.

[TheHammer]

It seems you've all but won this game. And yet, in terms of game time it's still relatively early. It also seems you're getting bored So what i'd like to propose is something that at first might seem somewhat radical. It's clear you've reached that inevitable tipping point that occurs in every CK2 game where you essentially can't be stopped by the AI... So the question becomes, can you stop yourself? One of the neat things about CK2 is that when you load a save game, you can play as someone else in the world you've created. A Cadet branch of the Thanas family perhaps? Within the empire could work, although if there was one who has established in a foreign court that would almost be more interesting? Or you could go a different direction and start off as a viking duke and build a pagan empire to rival your old one. Would make for a more interesting LP than the "I stomped 3 more muslim kingdoms and beat back the HRE AGAIN".

[GuppyShark]

OF COURSE; YOU JUST GOT TO REBEL AGAINST SUCH AN EVIL TYRANT. I guess the only way the game knows how to balance itself is by creating the same revolts over and over again. And if you think this is a mod problem - no, it is not. If anything, with more honorary titles than in vanilla the mod alleviates these problems.

Sorry, I still think this is a mod problem.

The cassus belli for the revolt should have imprisonment for the instigator as part of the total default result, and one charge of 'traitor.

You can spend the traitor charge to revoke a title without penalty.

You said something about a levy bug but I've not experienced it running Vanilla CK2.

Frankly, I usually welcome revolts as they allow me to reorder the political structure without upsetting anyone (who isn't going to spend their remaining days rotting in my dungeon).

[Steve]

This one.

I just ran a Byzantine game- just from EUIV, didn't have CKII at the time -through about a month ago. Aside from a couple funky things like Bordeaux and the province next to it having nearly a million people each (when Paris had ~400k), it seemed to have no real POP issues. Cultures converted over properly, even in the mess that is post-AOW China. A couple provs like the aforementioned ones have either too small or too large populations, but for the most part...it's stable at least.

Granted, that was a month ago and I never underestimate the ability of people to screw things up even in such a short time.

"
Current Limitations

Pops not converted"

Or is that list out of date?

[Steve]

You said something about a levy bug but I've not experienced it running Vanilla CK2.

The "bug" is more in how the game calculates troops available to a commander. Namely, it only counts levies and not retinues or special troops like the Varangians. Ergo the game will see that an independence faction or what have you appears to have a large numerical superiority over their liege and the AI will consider it acceptable to launch a revolt... when it would not do so if it had factored in the retinues and such.

[Skywalker_T-65]

This one.

I just ran a Byzantine game- just from EUIV, didn't have CKII at the time -through about a month ago. Aside from a couple funky things like Bordeaux and the province next to it having nearly a million people each (when Paris had ~400k), it seemed to have no real POP issues. Cultures converted over properly, even in the mess that is post-AOW China. A couple provs like the aforementioned ones have either too small or too large populations, but for the most part...it's stable at least.

Granted, that was a month ago and I never underestimate the ability of people to screw things up even in such a short time.

"
Current Limitations

Pops not converted"

Or is that list out of date?

It's out of date. Other than the aforementioned population issues, the 'limitations' one just hasn't been updated. Armies convert over, and so do navies as of recently- though that leads to really funky super-navies, considering how large an EUIV navy can get for the bigger countries. Diplomacy works too, though there isn't any guarantee that an ally from EUIV will stay one in Vicky.

As above though, since I'm currently running a Rome game through from CKII I haven't converted a game in a month. Something may have messed up in that time. Not sure.

[LaCroix]

So, we will soon have the legitimate borders restored, and then you will convert to EUIV - So, with Iberia in the Demesne, and Britannia, too, it will fall to the Romans to seek out the fabled sea route east to asia?

I mean trying to colonize the americas yourself, keeping everyone else out of it, at all cost? Now that would be a hoot to play, no?

[Purple]

That's nice and all. But you know what's nicer? Getting to China the right way. Through India.

[GuppyShark]

The "bug" is more in how the game calculates troops available to a commander. Namely, it only counts levies and not retinues or special troops like the Varangians. Ergo the game will see that an independence faction or what have you appears to have a large numerical superiority over their liege and the AI will consider it acceptable to launch a revolt... when it would not do so if it had factored in the retinues and such.

Different issue - Thanas was saying that if he revoked a king's title and gave it to someone else, he wouldn't be able to raise the new king's levy.

[Thanas]

The "bug" is more in how the game calculates troops available to a commander. Namely, it only counts levies and not retinues or special troops like the Varangians. Ergo the game will see that an independence faction or what have you appears to have a large numerical superiority over their liege and the AI will consider it acceptable to launch a revolt... when it would not do so if it had factored in the retinues and such.

Different issue - Thanas was saying that if he revoked a king's title and gave it to someone else, he wouldn't be able to raise the new king's levy.

Yeah but that bug happens in vanilla too, especially if you got a lot of interconnected vassals.

[Purple]

The "bug" is more in how the game calculates troops available to a commander. Namely, it only counts levies and not retinues or special troops like the Varangians. Ergo the game will see that an independence faction or what have you appears to have a large numerical superiority over their liege and the AI will consider it acceptable to launch a revolt... when it would not do so if it had factored in the retinues and such.

Different issue - Thanas was saying that if he revoked a king's title and gave it to someone else, he wouldn't be able to raise the new king's levy.

Yeah but that bug happens in vanilla too, especially if you got a lot of interconnected vassals.

Have you tried dissolving kingdoms instead of reissuing them? Yes you'll take a popularity hit. But you can mitigate that by doing it when your ruler is about to die.

[LaCroix]

The "bug" is more in how the game calculates troops available to a commander. Namely, it only counts levies and not retinues or special troops like the Varangians. Ergo the game will see that an independence faction or what have you appears to have a large numerical superiority over their liege and the AI will consider it acceptable to launch a revolt... when it would not do so if it had factored in the retinues and such.

Have you tried dissolving kingdoms instead of reissuing them? Yes you'll take a popularity hit. But you can mitigate that by doing it when your ruler is about to die.

That would also increase your own levies and therefore make further rebellions less likely. MAkes sense - "The empereor will dissolve the kingdom and absorb it into his personal demesne if we revolt" should be a good incentive to not try anything funky.

[Thanas]

Yeah but then you get a -50 malus for having dissolved the kingdom.

[LaCroix]

Which can be put right in the years to come or by emperor death. The constant rebellions will not cease, otherwise...

So - either a reign of rebellions, and then peace for the next emperor, or a reign of rebellions for all emperors...

OR you start conquering without creating new kingdoms - same end result, less malus. Either way, with the revolt logic like that, you need to increase your personal levies to stop the revolts.

I do like the "dissolve kingdom if you revolt repeatedly" approach for its style, though. You were arguing that the game was getting bland - well, roleplaying it instead of following the optimum game mechanic would certainly spice it up for a time. So for the next ruler with anger issues/low diplomacy - why not let him have a temper tantrum...

[Tribble]

If you want another challenge, why not pick a count/duke in another kingdom and see if you can rise through the ranks and conquer the Byzantine Empire.

Or you could always role-play, I find that a lot of fun.