In Putinist Russia, you either support the state, shut the fuck up, or you get shot if you make too much noise. This is another political murder that will never be solved, which is just the result the Kremlin will prefer despite their noises about investigations.Prominent Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov has been shot dead in Moscow. Nemtsov, a former deputy prime minister and a sharp critic of the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, was reportedly shot four times in the back by a killer in a passing car.
The killing took place in the very centre of Moscow late on Friday evening on a bridge near St Basil’s Cathedral and the Kremlin, two days before Nemtsov was due to lead a major opposition rally in Moscow.
Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said the president would take the investigation into Nemtsov’s death under “personal control”, and that he believed the killing to be a provocation.
“Putin noted that this cruel killing has all the signs of a hit, and is a pure provocation,” said Peskov. He said Putin offered condolences to Nemtsov’s family.
Nemtsov, 55, was deputy prime minister during the 1990s in the government of Boris Yeltsin. He had written a number of reports in recent years linking Putin and his inner circle to corruption, and was one of the most well-known politicians among Russia’s small and beleaguered opposition.
Footage from the scene showed police experts examining the corpse of a man, dressed in jeans and lying on the tarmac, with the domes of St Basil’s in the background. Fellow opposition politicians confirmed the news, while a police spokeswoman said a manhunt was under way for the killer.
“He was shot four times in the back, as a result of which he died,” Elena Alekseyeva told Russian television. She added that the killer escaped in a light-coloured car. Other official sources told Russian media that Nemtsov had been walking with a female companion, who was unharmed, at the time of the killing. The woman was reportedly a Ukrainian national and was taken for questioning by police. A representative of Russia’s investigative committee at the scene of the murder said investigators were considering “all possible versions”.
Just hours before his death, Nemtsov had appeared on Ekho Moskvy radio calling on Muscovites to attend an opposition march planned for Sunday. The march against Putin’s government and the war in Ukraine was due to take place in a suburb of Moscow. One of the other organisers of the march, Alexei Navalny, was jailed on 19 February for 15 days. Nemtsov himself had been detained briefly a number of times in recent years for taking part in political rallies, and was seen as one of the old guard of the Russian opposition.
“Today before the programme he asked me if I wasn’t scared to have him on air,” Alexei Venediktov, the editor-in-chief of Ekho Moskvy, wrote on Twitter. “It wasn’t me who needed to be scared.”
“We will answer Nemtsov’s murder with everyone coming out to the rally on 1 March, it’s the best thing we can do for now,” wrote Gennady Gudkov, another opposition politician, on Twitter.
Britain has said it will follow closely investigations into the killing. A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: “We are shocked and saddened by news … We deplore this criminal act. Those responsible must be brought to justice. We will continue to follow the situation closely.”
Barack Obama called on Russia’s government to perform a “prompt, impartial and transparent” investigation to bring Nemtsov’s killers to justice. Obama said Nemtsov was a “tireless advocate” for Russia and the rights of its citizens and praised him for fighting corruption. The pair met in Moscow in 2009, Obama said, when the Russian was willing to “share his candid views with me’’. He said the Russian people had “lost one of the most dedicated and eloquent defenders of their rights’’.
The immediate reaction in Moscow was one of shock and amazement. While there has been a noticeable crackdown on opposition since Putin returned to the Kremlin in 2012, and especially since the conflict in Ukraine, no major political figure has been killed in Russia for a decade. Many previous contract killings, such as that of the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya in 2006, were never solved.
Mikhail Kasyanov, a former Russian prime minister now also in opposition, said: “In the 21st century, a leader of the opposition is being demonstratively shot just outside the walls of the Kremlin.
“The country is rolling into the abyss.”
Russian pro-democracy activist and former world chess champion Garry Kasparov said on his Facebook page: “Devastated to hear of the cold-blooded murder of my long-time opposition colleague Boris Nemtsov in central Moscow, quite close to the Kremlin.
“Shot four times, once for each child he leaves behind. A man of Boris’s quality no longer fit Putin’s Russia.
“He always believed Russia could change from the inside and without violence; after 2012 I disagreed with this. When we argued, Boris would tell me I was too hasty and that in Russia you had to live a long time to see change. Now he’ll never see it. Rest In Peace.”
Michael McFaul, US ambassador to Russia from 2012-2014 and now a Stanford University professor, called the shooting “one of the most shocking things that I can remember happening in Russia for a long, long time”.
Earlier this month, Nemtsov gave an interview in which he said he was scared that Putin would try to have him killed. A self-assured and colourful character, Nemtsov enjoyed the media spotlight and never minced his words. He came to prominence as a reform-minded governor in the Nizhny Novgorod region during the 1990s, before he was named deputy prime minister under Yeltsin.
He had criticised Putin and his regime both for corruption and for the recent war in Ukraine, which he said was manufactured by Putin. He was featured in a number of lists of traitors and members of a supposed “fifth column” inside Russia published by pro-Kremlin and nationalist figures.
Putin himself has spoken of a “fifth column” in the country and, in recent weeks, politicians and nationalists launched an “anti-Maidan” movement in Russia and said they would not allow opposition politicians to create a Ukrainian-style uprising in Moscow, suggesting that the opposition was working at the behest of foreign enemies of Russia.
Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
I am pretty sure it has been that way since the 1990s.
That is not to say I hold the late Nemtsov in high regard, but even adversaries do not deserve to be killed off like that.
Figures with less popular exposure died all the time, so people kind of got used to it. When the nation collapsed, the only people dead-set on getting power were the mafia.While there has been a noticeable crackdown on opposition since Putin returned to the Kremlin in 2012, and especially since the conflict in Ukraine, no major political figure has been killed in Russia for a decade.
That is not to say I hold the late Nemtsov in high regard, but even adversaries do not deserve to be killed off like that.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Apparently the old radioactive sushi trick was too subtle this time.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
So, a political has-been with zero influence or power for the last 2 years is shot dead in sight of the Kremlin 2 days before a major protest march is about to take place. And people actually suspect Putin, the person with the least to gain, and everything to lose from this?
Have a very nice day.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Never mind that fact that Nemtsov had all sorts of shady business deals going, and was shot while walking with his mistress (who escaped unscathed). Clearly, an alternative explanation for the murder is impossible, it must be evil Putin!
Have a very nice day.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
I was just thinking something similar, actually. It seems unlikely to me that Putin specifically handed down a mandate that this individual must die (although I would posit that Putin won't spend too much effort actually investigating this, nevermind punishing anyone). Considering how Russia's government is (by all accounts I've read) is essentially a network of mafia-type gangs, I think it's more likely that this murder was something planned rather spontaneously by someone much lower down on the totem pole that had some (possibly petty) beef with Nemtsov.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Pfft. Let's not get simple common sense/logic get in the way of Russophobia/hysteria.fgalkin wrote:Never mind that fact that Nemtsov had all sorts of shady business deals going, and was shot while walking with his mistress (who escaped unscathed). Clearly, an alternative explanation for the murder is impossible, it must be evil Putin!
Have a very nice day.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Well, it is not like the russian secret services have never been implicated in the murder of not-that-important dissidents....oh wait, that has been their modus operandi for at least 7 decades now....Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Pfft. Let's not get simple common sense/logic get in the way of Russophobia/hysteria.fgalkin wrote:Never mind that fact that Nemtsov had all sorts of shady business deals going, and was shot while walking with his mistress (who escaped unscathed). Clearly, an alternative explanation for the murder is impossible, it must be evil Putin!
Have a very nice day.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
It's not the deaths of Sergei Yushenkov, Yuri Shchekochikhin, Nikolai Girenko, Viktor Yushchenko,Viktor Yushchenko, Anna Politkovskaya, Alexander Litvinenko , Daniel McGrory, Stanslav Markelov , Natalia Estemirova were any indication that Russia has a habit of critics of the Putin administration dying and their deaths never being solved.Thanas wrote:
Well, it is not like the russian secret services have never been implicated in the murder of not-that-important dissidents....oh wait, that has been their modus operandi for at least 7 decades now....
Russiaphobia? I call it a pattern of behavior that Putin is a big fan of killing critics of his those he does not jail on trumped up charges (Plus those he jails on legitimate charges but who were ignored until they challenged his government.) The list of critics of Putin who just so happen to end up shot dead with no guilty party ever being found is.... a very long list.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
False flag operation by the CIA; the problem about being one of their assets is that they will eventually make you one of their martyrs.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Thanks for the advice Zaune, but the likes of my kind had been killed way before his happened, so I got out (in the most unlikely way possible - which maybe one day I'll tell you guys about, but not now)... I am safe right now. Safe to say I feel bad that this has happened, but with the Russian political climate - which I assure you has not changed much since the 1990s - this has been totally predictable.Zaune wrote:Apparently the old radioactive sushi trick was too subtle this time.
Stas, are you still living in Russia? Because if you are, I strongly advise you to get out while the going is good.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
I thought you ran to the PRC for a time Stas using a visa of some sort.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Wait, am I late for the anti-Putin circlejerk?Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Pfft. Let's not get simple common sense/logic get in the way of Russophobia/hysteria.fgalkin wrote:Never mind that fact that Nemtsov had all sorts of shady business deals going, and was shot while walking with his mistress (who escaped unscathed). Clearly, an alternative explanation for the murder is impossible, it must be evil Putin!
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Seriously though, while I'm not a fan of Putin in the slightest, but why bother assassinate a fringe political politician with virtually no influence?
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Oh I have no doubt that people do disappear or get jailed for trumped up charges, real and unreal, but this is some fringe politician with no influence whatsoever, and shot in broad daylight in front of everyone. As far as I know, most of the previous "mysterious" shootings took place in people's homes. The only place I know where shootings occur in broad daylight is probably Chechenya, that normally takes place with guns, bullets and maybe rockets.Thanas wrote:Well, it is not like the russian secret services have never been implicated in the murder of not-that-important dissidents....oh wait, that has been their modus operandi for at least 7 decades now....
On the other hand, killing this man elevates his influence rapidly. They already jailed some opposition politician recently on charges recently. What makes this guy so special that he needs a bullet?
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
That's also why I don't think Putin had any hand in this assassination, too little to gain and too much blowback to happen.Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Oh I have no doubt that people do disappear or get jailed for trumped up charges, real and unreal, but this is some fringe politician with no influence whatsoever, and shot in broad daylight in front of everyone. As far as I know, most of the previous "mysterious" shootings took place in people's homes. The only place I know where shootings occur in broad daylight is probably Chechenya, that normally takes place with guns, bullets and maybe rockets.Thanas wrote:Well, it is not like the russian secret services have never been implicated in the murder of not-that-important dissidents....oh wait, that has been their modus operandi for at least 7 decades now....
On the other hand, killing this man elevates his influence rapidly. They already jailed some opposition politician recently on charges recently. What makes this guy so special that he needs a bullet?
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Thing about Putin is, he's something of a megalomaniac. He has a history of reacting violently to people giving him lip, back when he was a young lad in the KGB. Now he's got the self-control to not tackle someone to the ground and pound their face into hamburger. Instead, he can have them whacked or framed for something that puts them away forever.Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Oh I have no doubt that people do disappear or get jailed for trumped up charges, real and unreal, but this is some fringe politician with no influence whatsoever, and shot in broad daylight in front of everyone. As far as I know, most of the previous "mysterious" shootings took place in people's homes. The only place I know where shootings occur in broad daylight is probably Chechenya, that normally takes place with guns, bullets and maybe rockets.Thanas wrote:Well, it is not like the russian secret services have never been implicated in the murder of not-that-important dissidents....oh wait, that has been their modus operandi for at least 7 decades now....
On the other hand, killing this man elevates his influence rapidly. They already jailed some opposition politician recently on charges recently. What makes this guy so special that he needs a bullet?
If there weren't a history of Putin's opponents vanishing, getting sent to prison on bullshit charges, or even being murdered in plain site I'd say "Whoah, now! We shouldn't jump to conclusions here."
But there is that history of Bad Things happening to people who vocally disagree with Putin. You need to keep in mind, when you have someone killed in a visible manner it isn't about getting people to stop agreeing with that person. It's to make them too damn scared to say it aloud. The leaders of the USSR weren't concerned about if killing a political rival would garner sympathy for the guy. They knew that it got rid of a leader they didn't have control of and scared the masses into keeping their noses out of the Party's business.
Why should it matter if the guy's no longer of any importance? Whack someone a decade after they actually made all that noise and it sends the message "We don't forget. We don't forgive. If you speak up you'll never rest easy again."
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
It doesn't have to be Putin himself who ordered the hit, for all we know it could someone in his inner circle who was trying to score points by "taking care of" an oppposing voice.
Indeed it would make more sense if it was small time supporter of Putin trying to get prestige and influence with the goverment by removing an irritant then the goverment itself.
Indeed it would make more sense if it was small time supporter of Putin trying to get prestige and influence with the goverment by removing an irritant then the goverment itself.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
So basically what you are saying, is that he was, uh, a bog standard politician?fgalkin wrote:Never mind that fact that Nemtsov had all sorts of shady business deals going, and was shot while walking with his mistress (who escaped unscathed). Clearly, an alternative explanation for the murder is impossible, it must be evil Putin!
Have a very nice day.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Thing is, those opposition politicians who disappeared? They're a drop in the bucket. We have what, 7 names out of hundreds? It's illogical to assume that it was Putin when a Russian political figure turns up dead. I mean, we don't assume it was the opposition when a pro-Putin politician is found in a barrel of cement, right?
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
I was under the impression that it's less about Putin actively ordering assassinations, and more about the general atmosphere of nationalism he fosters and grows? People do moronic/terrible things for what they perceive as the good of the nation, be they lefty or righty.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Oh for fuck's sake. Yeah, it was Putin.
To paraphrase myself elsewhere - its Russia. You're talking a guy who was big in politics in the 1990s, with all the baggage that brings in terms of corruption and shady dealings.
Another possibility - lets not forget he's a classic loser Russian limousine liberal, who the average Russian despises (when they think about them at all). These people have no idea how to run an effective political opposition, but they sure know the right things to say to Western politicians and journalists. Their inept and ineffective pandering to Western sensibilities makes them a target for the type of Russians who really, really hate any sort of 'fifth column' stench amongst the Russian elite. There's a huge nationalist undercurrent in Russia right now and its not hard to imagine an extremist taking that 'fifth column' rhetoric and deciding to just kill the traitor, if you know what I mean.
To paraphrase myself elsewhere - its Russia. You're talking a guy who was big in politics in the 1990s, with all the baggage that brings in terms of corruption and shady dealings.
Another possibility - lets not forget he's a classic loser Russian limousine liberal, who the average Russian despises (when they think about them at all). These people have no idea how to run an effective political opposition, but they sure know the right things to say to Western politicians and journalists. Their inept and ineffective pandering to Western sensibilities makes them a target for the type of Russians who really, really hate any sort of 'fifth column' stench amongst the Russian elite. There's a huge nationalist undercurrent in Russia right now and its not hard to imagine an extremist taking that 'fifth column' rhetoric and deciding to just kill the traitor, if you know what I mean.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
What's more, I heard some of them, the late Nemtsov included, have been getting murder threats from the nationalists (which are pretty much fascists, they just use the term 'nationalist' because it's not so ugly when you first say it or hear it).Vympel wrote:There's a huge nationalist undercurrent in Russia right now and its not hard to imagine an extremist taking that 'fifth column' rhetoric and deciding to just kill the traitor, if you know what I mean.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Pretty much. This also helps the Kremlin - Putin has the fascists to his right (he's never been as hard right as they'd like) and if this was their doing (or if it can be credibly pinned on them), it'll only strengthen the Kremlin's hand politically. Not that it needs that much strengthening - say what you will about the morality of the position, but if you're an 'opposition' Russian politician and you come out in support of the government in Kiev, you're clearly not interested in ever being part of any elected government in Russia, ever.Stas Bush wrote: What's more, I heard some of them, the late Nemtsov included, have been getting murder threats from the nationalists (which are pretty much fascists, they just use the term 'nationalist' because it's not so ugly when you first say it or hear it).
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
Oh, that depends solely on the outcome of this situation, if you ask me. If the adventurism in Ukraine will be economically disastrous to the point of a humanitarian catastrophe (which is not something I expect, and Russia is anyway in a state of permanent crisis and disaster almost all the time...), the tides can sweep absolutely any kind of politician into power - from a 'peacemaker' to a crazy warmonger. Russia is where chaos rules.Vympel wrote:Pretty much. This also helps the Kremlin - Putin has the fascists to his right (he's never been as hard right as they'd like) and if this was their doing (or if it can be credibly pinned on them), it'll only strengthen the Kremlin's hand politically. Not that it needs that much strengthening - say what you will about the morality of the position, but if you're an 'opposition' Russian politician and you come out in support of the government in Kiev, you're clearly not interested in ever being part of any elected government in Russia, ever.
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Re: Russian Opposition Leader Boris Nemtsov Shot Dead
"Not beneficial to Putin"? I doubt that, especially as tsar Putin always can blame it on an external foe. Case in point, the channel ITV, which is majority-owned by Gazprom (which, in itself, is unbelievable) has already declared that the people responsible for the murder can be found in the US or Ukraine: NTV
I want to stress that I don't think that Putin was involved in the killing, but he is at the very least responsible for having created such an atmosphere. Legitimate NGO's are labelled "foreign agents" (including the Union of the Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia) and people are labelled traitors.
I want to stress that I don't think that Putin was involved in the killing, but he is at the very least responsible for having created such an atmosphere. Legitimate NGO's are labelled "foreign agents" (including the Union of the Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia) and people are labelled traitors.