Syriza wins Greece election

[BabelHuber]

Does Greece still need to implement more reforms in its bureaucratic/political/economical/social set up? Sure, no one, not me not SYRIZA is arguing otherwise. But to pretend it hasn't done a lot already and that is the cause of austerity fucking up is beyond disingenuous.

Yes, Greece has done a lot and needs to do more, we can agree on this. I think they haven't reformed their bureaucrazy enough (yet?), though.

In my opinion the the main cause of Greek's situation is the bankruptcy it went trough. Being alone without the EUs "austerity" measures, it would fare much worse.

But we should end discussing this point, I don't think we can agree upon this anyways.

Housing bubbles are created by private markets and not public markets. While I concede with an interest rate of 0.05% from the ECB there might be a possibility if Greek banks start offering outrageous loans again, but this can simply be sidestepped by good fiscal policy; that being if someone makes €20,000 per year, don't offer them mortgages of €500,000 because that is fucking stupid. And who is creating this demand for more housing when there are 300,000 empty ones currently?

True.

In general, overspending creates demand regarding housing - when people have more money and are optimistic about the future, some of them usually invest in real estate. This does not necessarily have to be the case in Greece, though.

You're assuming that any money in the pocket of Greek citizens will automatically float away. While the first obvious beneficiary of Greeks having money again will be Greece's largest industry; its service industry. Cafe's, bar's, tavernas, tourism areas etc would see an immediate upturn, and all you need to do is continue to reform the taxation code to properly tap these establishments tax streams.

Also true.

But nevertheless, this cannot create a rebound which can sustain itself:

In the 1930ies USA, consumer goods were usually produced in the USA. And this is needed to create a positive Keynesian chain reaction.

Heck, even when people bought more cars, the fuel needed for them could be produced domestically. This is a Keynesian's dream!

When you cannot create this positive chain reaction, the economy is dependent on overspending, so reducing the flow of money means reducing the growth. In the end, such an economy becomes addicted to overspending, which has to end in a crash.

All of which would require more government spending, so exactly what are we in disagreement over here?

I am not against investing to improve the economy in a sustainable way. I'm just against overspending to create short-term benefits which aren't sustainable and hence merely create bubbles.

Also, I think that Greece could get some help from the EU for a sane long-term concept - if they can make sure that the money is spent as intended. I wouldn't oppose such an approach.

[J]

Commentary from Paulo Batista, one of the executive directors of the IMF

[Thanas]

Meanwhile, the Greek defence minister has stated that if Germany would not agree to Greece's demands, they will send islamic militants to Germany.

Guardian

Relations appeared to hit a new low when the defence minister Panos Kammenos, of the rightwing populist party Independent Greeks, this week threatened to send Islamic fundamentalists to Germany among tens of thousands of migrants currently in Greece in revenge for the austerity measures that Berlin is widely seen to have imposed on Athens.

“If you deliver a blow to Greece, then you should know that migrants will be given papers and sent to Berlin,” Kammenos told a meeting of his party, in remarks passed to the media. “If members of the terror militia ‘Islamic State’ are among them then Europe only has itself to blame because of its attitude towards Greece with regards to the debt question.”

Yep, real mature people there.