What is the actual weapons range of Millenium Falcon?

[His Divine Shadow]

If my ship has certain capabilities I would be a fool not to use them. to the full extent

Please understand the concept situational parameters and adapting to them.
Going long range all the time is being a fool.

So, your position is that ranges shown in the movies were short because of the jamming (among other things)?
And you said that SW universe is static. So, jamming should be a problem in NJO era, too.

They where short because thats how it was in that situation, long and short range fights happen, any problems here are imaginary.

You can't just start fight at close range. As demonstrated in ANH i RotJ Rebel and Imperial starfighters had to actually fly to the combat area. There's no need to "fall back" - they were already there and didn't fire a single shot. Either they just love those short range dogfights, or they are just unable to fight at ranges larger than that.

As demonstrated in ANH and ROTJ thats exactly what happened, long range fighting, stupid, what fucking good would it have done? Nothing, it would only allowed them to become easier targets.
If they hadn't gone to close range and into the trench they would have been screwed, had the rebel fleet been sitting out there like a duck they would have been dead meat, understand angular velocity, it becomes much easier to shoot something down at longer range when you got the equippment.

I see a reason for long ranges for that unlucky ISD
Anyway, flying inside asteroid field counts as "fight under jamming conditions" IMHO

I didn't see any reasons for anything there.

This is a matter of what exactly Emperor wanted to do with Rebel fleet.

No, it's a matter of what the rebels wanted, did they want to sit out there and take potshots at the DS2? No, they wanted to go inside and blow up it's reactor.

If we assume that starfighters are unable to seriously damage capital starships, then all those T/I and T/Fs were obviously sent to take out Rebel starfighter escort.

So, my question remains - why would they fly so close to capital ships if their weapon range is higher than few kms?
Before you say that Rebel starfighters were protected by Rebel jamming field, keep in mind that according to RotJ novelisation starfighters were actually ahead of main group (at least according to my Polish translation )
(remember that three unlucky X-wings that crashed into DS shield.)

You obvoiusly do not understand that angular velocity is the best friend of fighters ducking SWICS fire.
If you travel in a car with a rifle, you could hit stuff far away as it goes by, but try and hitting something much closer, nu uh...

The problem is that they fight at close ranges those times even if that's tactically unvise

Not in the movies they don't.
ANH, nope - TIE's not going close enough to the Falcon would have been much easier to shoot down than going in close and making it harder for the guns to keep up.

TESB, nope - They where in an asteroid field, you can't go fast there, you can't shoot far either, same with AOTC

ROTJ, nope - They where not suicidal, wich it would have been to sit there where the anti-SF guns could easily have tracked them, and their mission was to go into the DS, and going closer makes it harder for enemy guns to track them due to angular velocity.

Well, I do go thinking that fighters use their maxium engegement ranges, mainly because they do.
First they fire long range missiles, then they fire medium range missiles, and then (if that's not enough) they use short range missiles.

Missiles at long range, bad idea, they will be shot down, jamming would make it hard for them to hit accuratly too, unless one fires dumb missiles and are a good shot.
========================
Pg. 206: There were more than twenty fast-firing, fast-tracking antimissile octects arrayed around Indomitable's hull, and those that had a firing solution immediately began firing the missiles' projected path with a cloud of high-velocity shrapnel. When the missiles hit and the cloud met, spectacular flowers of red and yellow fire blossomed silently in the vacuum.
========================
-Tyrant's Test

There are other quotes speaking about the problems of firing missiles from afar and that ought to get close unless they'd be shot down, but I am having trouble finding them.

[Kazeite]

Please understand the concept situational parameters and adapting to them.
Going long range all the time is being a fool.

And going short range when I can go long range is plainly suicidal.

They where short because thats how it was in that situation, long and short range fights happen, any problems here are imaginary.

Not if long-range fight is greater by "several orders of magnitude."

Using your logic, it had to be their maximum range, because no-one said it wasn't.

As demonstrated in ANH and ROTJ thats exactly what happened, long range fighting, stupid, what fucking good would it have done?

It would eliminate several fighters on both sides, which would prove rather beneficial to Imperials, given their numerical advantage. But no, they had to come close to allow their opponents to use benefits of capships presence.

Regarding ANH, mr Wong argued on this very thread that DS was not equipped with proper anti-aircraft guns.
Understand cone of fire - many turbolaser turrets would be unable to fire straight up, so polite Rebels actually flew into their cone of fire to allow to be fired upon, not counting jamming field that were caused them to be virtually defenseless against enemy fighters.

Yep, no contradiction here.

I didn't see any reasons for anything there.

Oh sure, that millions of spinning rocks didn't prove to be an obstacle. None whatsoever.

No, it's a matter of what the rebels wanted, did they want to sit out there and take potshots at the DS2? No, they wanted to go inside and blow up it's reactor.

No doubt about it, but it wasn't them who set the trep.

You obvoiusly do not understand that angular velocity is the best friend of fighters ducking SWICS fire.

If the angural velocity is the best friend of fighter, then it makes Imperials decision not to fire at long ranges even more stupid.

Not in the movies they don't.

Yes in the movies they do.

ANH, nope - TIE's not going close enough to the Falcon would have been much easier to shoot down than going in close and making it harder for the guns to keep up.

The presence of those famous 'wild energies' could explain short range fight in this case.

TESB, nope - They where in an asteroid field, you can't go fast there, you can't shoot far either, same with AOTC

Um, I didn't know that high speed was requied to fire at long ranges
Anyway, in this case I think that flying at close range was tactically wise.

Later however it was stupid not to try shoot down Falcon at long range, since its only weapon at this point was its maneuverability. It was also stupid trying to fly with ISDs so close to the Falcon instead of trying to get a tractor beam lock from afar.

ROTJ, nope - They where not suicidal, wich it would have been to sit there where the anti-SF guns could easily have tracked them,

But eventually that's what they did - they were basically sitting here until Lando proposed 'point-blank range' tactic.
Also that doesn't explain Imperial fighters opening fire at the last possible moment.

Missiles at long range, bad idea, they will be shot down, jamming would make it hard for them to hit accuratly too, unless one fires dumb missiles and are a good shot.

I didn't know that on Earth there are fighter pilots good enough to shoot down incoming missiles.

Oh wait, you used real-world analogy and when I pointed out that it is incorrect you moved it to the SW world to prove that I was incorrect...

Clever.

However, I didn't said single word that SW fighters use missiles at long ranges. If their range is indeed as big as you claim, they simple don't have to.

[His Divine Shadow]

And going short range when I can go long range is plainly suicidal

Which is a more rare situation.
And doesn't happen anyway.

Not if long-range fight is greater by "several orders of magnitude."
Using your logic, it had to be their maximum range, because no-one said it wasn't

Are we classifying ranges now? This is stupid, thats trying to shoe-horn in rules and regulations without cause, combat is far more random than that.

And it doesn't matter if it's by several orders of magnitude, it doesn't alter what we see in the movies.

It would eliminate several fighters on both sides, which would prove rather beneficial to Imperials, given their numerical advantage. But no, they had to come close to allow their opponents to use benefits of capships presence

They did what the Emperor told them to do, they where fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.

Regarding ANH, mr Wong argued on this very thread that DS was not equipped with proper anti-aircraft guns.
Understand cone of fire - many turbolaser turrets would be unable to fire straight up, so polite Rebels actually flew into their cone of fire to allow to be fired upon, not counting jamming field that were caused them to be virtually defenseless against enemy fighters

Oh I understand cone of fire, a small cone would grow larger the farther out it is and with the lower angular velocities there they would be easier to hit, close in they would have a much harder time to hit them.

The rebels flew down there because the cone of fire was smaller there and higher angular velocities made them harder to hit.

Yep, no contradiction here

Nope, not as long as you're looking at it logically.

Oh sure, that millions of spinning rocks didn't prove to be an obstacle. None whatsoever

You seem to be answering claims I never made, are you schizophrenic?
What rocks? What are you talking about?

No doubt about it, but it wasn't them who set the trep.

No, so it makes sense.

If the angural velocity is the best friend of fighter, then it makes Imperials decision not to fire at long ranges even more stupid

Like in ROTJ? where the capships where banned form action beyond making sure that the rebel fleet doesn't escape to hyperspace?

Yes in the movies they do.

Not yet, maybe you have some imaginary movie you're watching?

The presence of those famous 'wild energies' could explain short range fight in this case

And the fact that it's tactically sound, thats an even bigger, more important point.

Um, I didn't know that high speed was requied to fire at long ranges
Anyway, in this case I think that flying at close range was tactically wise

With the low angular velocities of long ranges you're gonna need all the speed you can get, or be a sitting duck,

Later however it was stupid not to try shoot down Falcon at long range, since its only weapon at this point was its maneuverability. It was also stupid trying to fly with ISDs so close to the Falcon instead of trying to get a tractor beam lock from afar.

Tractor beams are very short ranged devices, we see this in TESB, it makes perfect sense to go in and try and get a tractor lock.

But eventually that's what they did - they were basically sitting here until Lando proposed 'point-blank range' tactic

You're confusing capship tactics with SF tactics, all the Starfighters where dodge fighting around the capital ships.

Also that doesn't explain Imperial fighters opening fire at the last possible moment

Beyond them not starting out from afar?

I didn't know that on Earth there are fighter pilots good enough to shoot down incoming missiles

This is SW, where did I mention RL?
Again I ask, are you schizophrenic or on any kind of drug?

Oh wait, you used real-world analogy and when I pointed out that it is incorrect you moved it to the SW world to prove that I was incorrect...

I haven't used a real world analogy with regards to shooting down missiles, but they do that.

However, I didn't said single word that SW fighters use missiles at long ranges. If their range is indeed as big as you claim, they simple don't have to

You said thats what you expected, I was not aware you had switched to a RL analogy.
At any rate in SW long range missiles tend to get shot down.

[Kazeite]

Which is a more rare situation.
And doesn't happen anyway.

I don't understand. Being suicidal is more rare situation? Well, is sure is, but what do you mean?

Are we classifying ranges now?

No, we're trying to determine if the movies ranges contradict some EU sources.

And it doesn't matter if it's by several orders of magnitude, it doesn't alter what we see in the movies.

Then why do you object to my theory if that capabilities "doesn't alter what we see in the movies"?

They did what the Emperor told them to do, they where fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.

Capital ships, yes, but certanly not fighters. Several Rebel pilots would strongly disagree with you.

Oh I understand cone of fire, a small cone would grow larger the farther out it is and with the lower angular velocities there they would be easier to hit, close in they would have a much harder time to hit them.

Which once again brings question: why Imperial defenses waited to the last moment to open fire?

Nope, not as long as you're looking at it logically.

Logically, if I have capability to fire at long ranges, I would be idiot not to use that capability, if there are Rebel fighters approaching my battlestation.

I know that you will point out that DS1 staff was confident that fighters cannot harm it.
But note that DS turbolaser actually opened fire to the Rebels, regardless of the threat.
And that brings usual question: (sigh... I know, I'm saying this over and over again) if they have capability to fire at logner ranges, why did they wait to the last possible moment, allowing Rebels to use angular speed advantage and allowing them to actually damage lightly DS?

You seem to be answering claims I never made, are you schizophrenic?
What rocks? What are you talking about?

If you think that ateroid field (millions of spinning rocks) doesn't provide a serious interference on sensors, then you must have better opinion about SW sensor capabilities than I do.

No, so it makes sense.

That Imperial pilots were stupid not to open fire from longer distance? I'm glad you agree.

Like in ROTJ? where the capships where banned form action beyond making sure that the rebel fleet doesn't escape to hyperspace?

I'm talking about that Imperial fighters who happened to engage Rebel starships.

And the fact that it's tactically sound, thats an even bigger, more important point.

In this particular case, yes. (See? I agreed with you! )

With the low angular velocities of long ranges you're gonna need all the speed you can get, or be a sitting duck,

Oh, I didn't understand you. I see now.

Tractor beams are very short ranged devices, we see this in TESB, it makes perfect sense to go in and try and get a tractor lock.

Yes, I see you are correct. But it still doesn't explain... you know what

You're confusing capship tactics with SF tactics, all the Starfighters where dodge fighting around the capital ships.

Dodge fighting whom? Shadows? No, imperial fighters that had to traverse distance from DS launch bay (or ISDs launch bays) to engage Rebels at close range, even if they had opportunity to open fire at longer ranges and save themself some troubles.

Beyond them not starting out from afar?

How Imperial fleet could've know where exactly Rebels are going to arrive? Space is rather big.

This is SW, where did I mention RL?

In your RL analogy. It's not my fault that you suddenly switched back to SW to disprove my RL analogy.

You said thats what you expected, I was not aware you had switched to a RL analogy.

You used RL analogy in an attempt to disprove my theory, and then I pointed out it is incorrect. Of course I switched to it - How could you think that I was talking about SW when I responded directly to your quote about RL fighters, quoting it partially, and then talking about long-, medium-, and short-range missiles?

At any rate in SW long range missiles tend to get shot down.

Yes they do, no question about it.
But it has nothing to do with ranges of SW cannons.

[His Divine Shadow]

I don't understand. Being suicidal is more rare situation? Well, is sure is, but what do you mean?

No, a situation in which long ranges are more usefull are rare.

No, we're trying to determine if the movies ranges contradict some EU sources

They don't, situational adaptation.
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill or whatever it is they say.

Then why do you object to my theory if that capabilities "doesn't alter what we see in the movies"?

Your theory about better sensors? Unreasonable.

Capital ships, yes, but certanly not fighters. Several Rebel pilots would strongly disagree with you

What did the fighters do? Kept them occupied, they did this quite well, and in that situation, what is the best tactic? Use the capital ships as terrain and travel close to them.

Which once again brings question: why Imperial defenses waited to the last moment to open fire?

Why not? What does it matter? There was heavy jamming all around and why bother with weapons premateruly, get into the fray there and start dodge fighting is whats important, coming up at them and firing from long range would have allowed rebel capital ships to get better locks on approaching fighters.
I don't see why the hell I have to explain things like this to you.

Logically, if I have capability to fire at long ranges, I would be idiot not to use that capability, if there are Rebel fighters approaching my battlestation.

One would be an idiot to use long ranges and expose oneself to fire from capital ships.

I know that you will point out that DS1 staff was confident that fighters cannot harm it.
But note that DS turbolaser actually opened fire to the Rebels, regardless of the threat.

That was TARKIN.

And that brings usual question: (sigh... I know, I'm saying this over and over again) if they have capability to fire at logner ranges, why did they wait to the last possible moment, allowing Rebels to use angular speed advantage and allowing them to actually damage lightly DS?

Who says they didn't? It's not like they had much time either with the accelerations those fighters can pull off.

If you think that ateroid field (millions of spinning rocks) doesn't provide a serious interference on sensors, then you must have better opinion about SW sensor capabilities than I do.

I never said that, you ARE schizoprhenic! I'm getting tired of your repetitions and inability to read and try and claim that I agree with you when I clearly don't.

That Imperial pilots were stupid not to open fire from longer distance? I'm glad you agree.

You fucking piece of shit, stop that you bastard! I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT SO STOP WITH THE GAMES YOU PEST!
They would have been fucking stupid, moronic, idiotic, fucked up to fire from long range, clear enough for you yet you godammed genius? Stop fucking saying I agree with you when I clearly say something totally opposite.

Yes, I see you are correct. But it still doesn't explain... you know what

Dodge fighting whom? Shadows? No, imperial fighters that had to traverse distance from DS launch bay (or ISDs launch bays) to engage Rebels at close range, even if they had opportunity to open fire at longer ranges and save themself some troubles.

Fire earlier give up whatever cover they have from jamming thanks to visual lateral emissions of their weapons discharges, being detected earlier = bigger chance of death from capital ships, and it would kinda ruin the suprise of suddenly having a few hundreds of TIE's in your midst.

How Imperial fleet could've know where exactly Rebels are going to arrive? Space is rather big.

They didn't, they hid behind the planet and when the Rebel fleet jumped out they put the pedal to the metal and came up behind them.

[qoute]In your RL analogy. It's not my fault that you suddenly switched back to SW to disprove my RL analogy[/qoute]

What RL analogy?
I've never made a RL analogy with regards to missiles yet, and unless you can find one, silence.

You used RL analogy in an attempt to disprove my theory, and then I pointed out it is incorrect.

No that would be you being incorrect, the RL analogy of not always using long ranges work splendidly.

[His Divine Shadow]

You know what, I don't have to keep on telling you why they did this and that in any given situation, the fact is there are no explicit contradictions between EU and movies, and since there are none, this debate is moot.

Besides I'm pretty sure your just a troll here to drive people nuts with your endless repetition.

[Kazeite]

No, a situation in which long ranges are more usefull are rare.

Oh.

Well, I think that you are incorrect. Using your own word I could argue that since angular speed is the best friend of fighter pilot anyone should do anything to disallow enemy to use that advantage.

They don't, situational adaptation.

I'm sorry, but you were unable to convince me othervise. In in NJO books there is fight at long and at short distances, (which alone kinda invalidadates your claim about 'rare examples of usefulness of long range combat), then logically same thing should happen in the movies, given situations we witnessed.

You're trying to stuff that "mountain" under undersized rug, or whatever it is they say.

Your theory about better sensors? Unreasonable.

Your theory of... um, I don't know... imperial pilots fear? Unreasonable as well.

What did the fighters do? Kept them occupied, they did this quite well,

But it's not like that unoccupied Rebels were any threat to the DS. Imperial fighters were clearly trying to remove Rebel starships from the sky. Given their sheer numerical advantage, going long range would be the most logical things to do - fire one salvo, bear some light losses with smile, and return home - mission accomplished.

And I just realized - they didn't keep them occupied "quite well" - after DS shield dropped, they actually were unable to prevent Rebels from flying inside DS.

Why not? What does it matter?

I was talking about imperial 'defenses', not about imperial fighters. I understand the nature of starfighter battle over DS1, and I realize all those things you've pointed out.
But I'm talking about imperial turbolaser eplacements. The very fact that they opened fire proves that they wanted to destroy attackers as fast as possible.

One would be an idiot to use long ranges and expose oneself to fire from capital ships.

Providing that there was fire from capital ships present. Have you seen Rebel fleet firing at imperial TIEs before they moce d to close range? I haven't.

That was TARKIN.

Ok, so it was TARKIN who was confident that starfigher cannot harm DS.

Who says they didn't? It's not like they had much time either with the accelerations those fighters can pull off.

They had whole 30 seconds of time to open fire and blast Rebel fighters from the sky (after Rebels passed DS deflector shields)

I never said that, you ARE schizoprhenic!

You said that you don't any reason for counting engagements inside asteroid field counts as "fight under jamming conditions"

Then you obviously don't consider asteroid fields as some sort of obstacle for SW sensors.

Fire earlier give up whatever cover they have from jamming thanks to visual lateral emissions of their weapons discharges,

I don't think that large number of TIEs could evade detections until the last moment - SW sensors aren't THAT bad.

They didn't, they hid behind the planet and when the Rebel fleet jumped out they put the pedal to the metal and came up behind them.

So once again, they were outside their range and had to fly the whole distance, passing long range and closing to short range.

What RL analogy? I've never made a RL analogy with regards to missiles yet, and unless you can find one, silence.

it's not like we go thinking like that in real life when fighters do not use their maximum engagement ranges

Unless I'm mistaken missiles are main weapon of modern RL fighters. What other possible weapon you could've in mind, if not missiles?

No that would be you being incorrect, the RL analogy of not always using long ranges work splendidly.

I'm not disputing the fact that SW or RL fighter doesn't always use long range.

So, I'll say this once instead of spraying whole post with this simple statement:
In SW movies we see starfighters engaging enemies at short ranges, when it is tactiacally wise, but also when it is tactically unwise.

More importantly, we see capships engaging enemy fighters at close range, when those fighters have most chances of evading fire, not at long ranges, which would be the most logical solution.
Using RL analogy, almost whole modern capship armament is focused toward the goal of destroying enemies (other capships and fighters) as far from themselves as possible.

You may think that there is no "explicit contradictions between EU and movies", but given the fact that EU manages contradict itself on that matter I don't believe that your opinion is correct.

[Kazeite]

You know what, I don't have to keep on telling you why they did this and that in any given situation, the fact is there are no explicit contradictions between EU and movies, and since there are none, this debate is moot.

And thus, this great debate comes to an end with the patented "lalala, I can't hear you!" technique

[Darth Servo]

And thus, this great debate comes to an end with the patented "lalala, I can't hear you!" technique

More like it came to an end with the patented "I (Kazeite) don't have a valid argument" technique.

[Kazeite]

More like it came to an end with the patented "I (Kazeite) don't have a valid argument" technique.

Oh sure. If I didn't had valid arguments HDS should be convince me othervise, shouldn't he? it was like endless circle - I ask 'why fighters attack at close range?', and he responds 'to have better chance against capships', and then I ask why 'then why capships don't attack fighters at long range?' and he responds 'because fighters attack at close range'.

[Darth Servo]

and then I ask why 'then why capships don't attack fighters at long range?' and he responds 'because fighters attack at close range'.

How about: at long range, the fighters have more time to evade the cap ship's weapons making them much harder to hit.

[Kazeite]

How about: at long range, the fighters have more time to evade the cap ship's weapons making them much harder to hit.

A nice one, but according to him distance doesn't matter (due to the properties of SW weapons). Even more, (if I understand correctly), at longer distances fighters have actually less time to evade fire.

[Ender]

sorry, double post, second one is batter

[Ender]

And you said that SW universe is static. So, jamming should be a problem in NJO era, too.

The vong don't use ECM. Hence why strafing out of hyperspace and what not work. The droids can handle the targeting since it is unimpared and the biological componenets of Vong tech can't react fast enough. THere is only one instance of Vong doing anthig close to ECM, and it involved shooting special tiny dovin basals onto the hull of the ships that then captured all transmissions, causeing a communications blackout. No other type of ECM has ever been shown, and that one has never been repeated.

[Ender]

How about: at long range, the fighters have more time to evade the cap ship's weapons making them much harder to hit.

A nice one, but according to him distance doesn't matter (due to the properties of SW weapons). Even more, (if I understand correctly), at longer distances fighters have actually less time to evade fire.

Then there is no way in hell you understand correctly.

[Kazeite]

Then there is no way in hell you understand correctly.

So tell me how you understand following quote from this thread:

At the very least this indicates variable bolt speeds, upper limit is C, and following evidence from the movie on propagation speeds at various ranges, the propagation speed goes up when the range goes up, using the DS1 superlaser, which is essentially a big TL, they will pan out at C at a distance of ~75.000km.

To me it seems to imply that propagation speed goes up with the distance, with means that at longer distances fighters have less time to evade fire.

The vong don't use ECM.

You suprise me. You actually offered decent argument to prove something.

However, while it is clear that it isn't explicty stated that Vong don't use ECM, but it was implied one can theorize that Vong indeed don't use ECM, the same cannot be said about rest of "normal" SW ships.
And my opponetns have provided me with examples of NJO ships going vs other SW ships at long distances.

[Ender]

Then there is no way in hell you understand correctly.

So tell me how you understand following quote from this thread:

At the very least this indicates variable bolt speeds, upper limit is C, and following evidence from the movie on propagation speeds at various ranges, the propagation speed goes up when the range goes up, using the DS1 superlaser, which is essentially a big TL, they will pan out at C at a distance of ~75.000km.

To me it seems to imply that propagation speed goes up with the distance, with means that at longer distances fighters have less time to evade fire.

I ignore that because it is fan speculation. It is explicitly stated that the weapons travel at C. There fore, more range means more time to dodge. It may be only a fraction of a second, but it is still there.

The vong don't use ECM.

You suprise me. You actually offered decent argument to prove something. [/quote]I'm suprised you recognize it, given you provided nothing but leagalize bullshit.

However, while it is clear that it isn't explicty stated that Vong don't use ECM,

Actually, it is. It is flat out stated in Balance Point that they had to grow special creatures to use the SW frequencies just to broadcast a voice. They do not use the subspace, hypercom, or radio frequenceis at all for anything.

but it was implied one can theorize that Vong indeed don't use ECM, the same cannot be said about rest of "normal" SW ships.
And my opponetns have provided me with examples of NJO ships going vs other SW ships at long distances.

No they have not. There is not a single example of a NJO ship going against a regular ship. The XJs came out about a year prior to Vector Prime, the XJ3s came out well into the war as did the newer model E-wings mentioned in Rebel lines. ISDs, mon Cals, and the rest were stated to have recieved significant upgrades in Star by Star. Many ships, such as Both Assault cruiser, made their debut agaisnt the Vong.

There is no case of a NJO ship preforming at extreme ranges and speeds against another SW ship.

[Kazeite]

I ignore that because it is fan speculation.

While I'm more than happy to agree with you about that, there are other who will no doubt ridicule because of that

It is explicitly stated that the weapons travel at C.

But it is explicitly shown that weapon blast do not travel at C.

Actually, it is. It is flat out stated in Balance Point that they had to grow special creatures to use the SW frequencies just to broadcast a voice.

OK, so there is explictly stated that you said. So, they started to use jamming, right?

No they have not. There is not a single example of a NJO ship going against a regular ship.

So, basically, some guys here just lied to me? If there's no examples of a NJO ships "preforming at extreme ranges and speeds against another SW ship" then there's no reason to assume that extreme ranges.

And what do you think about that - what is your assesment about fighter-scale weapons range in SW?

[Ender]

But it is explicitly shown that weapon blast do not travel at C.

No, it is shown that the tracer doesn't move at C.

OK, so there is explictly stated that you said. So, they started to use jamming, right?

No. They still do not jam things at all, no matter the battle or what. We have seen exactly 2 Odgzils, one used by Tsavong Lah, and one by whomever was incharge of taking the Imperial Remnant. Aside from that no one, not even Tsavong Lah's own father who was a former warmaster has recieved one.

So, basically, some guys here just lied to me? If there's no examples of a NJO ships "preforming at extreme ranges and speeds against another SW ship" then there's no reason to assume that extreme ranges.

You don't understand.

There are examples of them preforming at extreme speeds and ranges agaisnt the Vong.

Unless it happened in Yelesia, which I have not read and I'm not sure where it falls into the continuity, there are no examples of extreme ranges and speeds against a standard SW ship.

There are numerous of them kicking Vong ass, but the vong fight in a totally different fashion, which makes for different uses of the technology.

And what do you think about that - what is your assesment about fighter-scale weapons range in SW?

I know the torps have a range of atleast 10,000 km, we saw that in ANH on the range counter.

But it depends on the weapon. Stutter shots or blaster shots won't go as far as a laser shot from a Skipray. Some missiles are long range and high yield, others are short range and low yield, same as it is with the modern military.

[Kazeite]

No, it is shown that the tracer doesn't move at C.

True, but there's always certain lag between fire and destruction, even at close ranges. If main portion of the blast moves with C the time should be almopst instanenous, but it isn't.

No. They still do not jam things at all, no matter the battle or what.

My mistake. I misunderstood.

There are numerous of them kicking Vong ass, but the vong fight in a totally different fashion, which makes for different uses of the technology.

I understand.

I know the torps have a range of atleast 10,000 km, we saw that in ANH on the range counter.

Um, according to mr Curtis Saxton range display was in meters. It is one of the method used by him to calculate DS dimensions.

But it depends on the weapon. Stutter shots or blaster shots won't go as far as a laser shot from a Skipray. Some missiles are long range and high yield, others are short range and low yield, same as it is with the modern military.

That goes without saying. But I am curious about your assesment of, say... X-wing guns range.

[Ender]

True, but there's always certain lag between fire and destruction, even at close ranges. If main portion of the blast moves with C the time should be almopst instanenous, but it isn't.

Not if it is a beam weapon like I recall ICS saying it shouldn't. Think about it, if it takes a few seconds to apply all the energy needed, that gives the tracer time to catch up.

Um, according to mr Curtis Saxton range display was in meters. It is one of the method used by him to calculate DS dimensions.

I double checked, and you are right, it is meters.

That goes without saying. But I am curious about your assesment of, say... X-wing guns range.

At least 20 km, probably towards 1000 km high end. There is nothing limiting them except how much energy the beam looses from the tracer, and I don't know how to do the calcs on that.

[Kazeite]

Not if it is a beam weapon like I recall ICS saying it shouldn't. Think about it, if it takes a few seconds to apply all the energy needed, that gives the tracer time to catch up.

If this is the beam weapon, then yes, it will take a few moments to apply needed energy.
But it isn'b beam weapon. It's bolt weapon. The whole idea behind bolt weapon is to apply at once as much energy as possible.

At least 20 km, probably towards 1000 km high end. There is nothing limiting them except how much energy the beam looses from the tracer, and I don't know how to do the calcs on that.

Yes, for all we know bolt itself may have infinite range.