"Give us Poland and Finland!" crowd shouts in Moscow

[Tiriol]

Link is in Finnish, sorry about that; I'll do my best to translate them.

Helsingin Sanomat reports: crowd chants "Next Poland and Finland!"

"Next Poland and Finland" - thousands celebrate the annexation of Crimea by Russia

Moscow. Thousands of people gathered gathered to celebrate in a concert the anniversary of Crimea being added to Russia in central Moscow on Wednesday evening. According to the police, over 110 000 people had gathered there.

The event known as "We together" had President Vladimir Putin as the main speaker.

"When we talk about Crimea, we don't just talk about territory, no matter how strategically important it may be", Putin said. "We are then talking about millions of Russians and millions of countrymen who needed our aid and support."

After the speech the excited crowd chanted, according to RBK channel reporter witnessing the event, "in all seriousness" the motto "olé olé olé, Crimea is ours, give us Poland and Finland". Geographically the conquest of Poland might, however, demand in addition of Ukraine the annexation of Belarus first.

The event was held next to the Kremlin's walls on Vasily's hill between Saint Vasily's Cathedral and Moscow River. The scene of murder of opposition leader Boris Nemtsov on the near bridge over Moscow River was surrounded by the police during the event.

Attendees to the celebration also came from countryside and according to the attendees, several employers had given them a day-off to honor the Krimea celebration.

Rumors have floated in social media that the attendees received a small reward. It is claimed that in a video made public on Facebook people are given money for their participation in the celebration. (note: link is here)

Putin arrived to the scene straight from a meeting of Ministers held in the Kremlin. According to the media he had said that Russia's aim is "a self-sufficient Crimea and Sevastopol" during the meeting.

According to the report published on Thursday by newspaper Nezavisimaja Gazeta, Putin's goals are still far away. Crimea is entirely dependent on Russia's support, and the amount of budget support it receives from the Federation is on the same level as Chechenya and Ingushetia.

Nice bunch of fellows. Maybe Finns should gather around and chant "return Petsamo, Karelia and Viipuri"? Same news item has also been reported by MTV and Ilta-Sanomat.

[K. A. Pital]

Stepping down to the idiots' level is a path to defeat. Russia loses much more from bad relations with Finland than vice versa.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Eh. Lots of nationalists in East Europe have weird ideas. In Poland, you have weirdos who apparently think Lvov should be Polish, and what not. There are also some weird Ukrainian Nationalist ideas too. Putin pandering to Nationalists is nothing new. The relationship is a combination of love-hate I hear.

[K. A. Pital]

The nazis have gotten bolder - but they were always there.

[The Romulan Republic]

In other words, they're pretty much chanting for nuclear world war.

[Sidewinder]

In other words, they're pretty much chanting for nuclear world war.

The Russian ultranationalists are goading Putin the way the Japanese ultranationalists once goaded Hirohito. Putin is more competent than Hirohito, but when he's gone- he's human, after all- will his successor demonstrate the competence- not to mention the RESTRAINT- necessary to prevent his or her own nation from embarking down so self-destructive a path?

[The Romulan Republic]

Frankly, the US should be making construction of missile defence technology one of their top priorities. And continuing and stepping up sanctions so Russia has less money to build weapons and pay troops.

[Joun_Lord]

Frankly, the US should be making construction of missile defence technology one of their top priorities. And continuing and stepping up sanctions so Russia has less money to build weapons and pay troops.

Or just doing the missile defense thingy and using it to protect ourselves and our allies (that don't plan to sell it to China) but beyond that quit sticking our red white and blue balled cock into other countries affairs.

We ain't the world police. We ain't the UN. While we carry a lions share of NATO strength we ain't NATO and NATO has no business in Eastern Europistan anyway.

Russia is a bag of dicks and Putin is a bald dick who would probably make the perfect Republican candidate but its not our problem. They aren't flinging their dicks around America or any of our allies. They ain't doing anything but have internal matters and sticking their dicks in countries within their sphere of influence. Those countries aren't America so its those countries problems and the UNs being an international incident.

At best we should be involved only so much as our UN obligations say we should. We send 20 dudes to wear blue helmets same as Tanzania sends 20 dudes and Albania sends 20 dudes.

Nothing more.

[The Romulan Republic]

We have a national security interest in crippling Russia economically to weaken them before they continue in the direction they are obviously going and attack a NATO country. You can debate the wisdom of that approach, but I think an argument can be made for it. But thanks for the generic anti-intervention rant.

[Joun_Lord]

They aren't directly attacking us. They aren't even really directly threatening us. They are a POSSIBLE threat but so what. So is nearly every other nation that hasn't bowed before their American masters. We have reason to be wary of them but no reason to attack them yet. Its like buying a gun for home defense because some dude down the street is a loud racist jackass that is having a property dispute. Buying the gun to defend yourself from possible aggression is fine, going to his house and blocking his pizza delivery or getting his bank to cancel his accounts or trying to arm his neighbor who he is having the property dispute with is not.

The only argument to be made for sticking our dicks on Russia's affairs is if you make the argument America has the right to interfere in sovereign nations. It doesn't.

And I'll have you know my rants are custom made brah.

[The Romulan Republic]

I wouldn't call sanctions an attack in the way a war is. Its more "We don't want to do business with you and will try to undermine your business." Nasty, maybe, but hardly comparable to military action.

[Captain Seafort]

They aren't flinging their dicks around America or any of our allies.

They aren't even really directly threatening us.

Shut up stupid.

[Tiriol]

Frankly, the US should be making construction of missile defence technology one of their top priorities. And continuing and stepping up sanctions so Russia has less money to build weapons and pay troops.

Or just doing the missile defense thingy and using it to protect ourselves and our allies (that don't plan to sell it to China) but beyond that quit sticking our red white and blue balled cock into other countries affairs.

We ain't the world police. We ain't the UN. While we carry a lions share of NATO strength we ain't NATO and NATO has no business in Eastern Europistan anyway.

Russia is a bag of dicks and Putin is a bald dick who would probably make the perfect Republican candidate but its not our problem. They aren't flinging their dicks around America or any of our allies. They ain't doing anything but have internal matters and sticking their dicks in countries within their sphere of influence. Those countries aren't America so its those countries problems and the UNs being an international incident.

At best we should be involved only so much as our UN obligations say we should. We send 20 dudes to wear blue helmets same as Tanzania sends 20 dudes and Albania sends 20 dudes.

Nothing more.

Just to give you a reminder, Poland is a member of NATO. If Russia does something stupid against it, Poland can invoke the mutual protection clause of NATO and the US is obliged to assist Poland.

[Purple]

I wouldn't call sanctions an attack in the way a war is. Its more "We don't want to do business with you and will try to undermine your business." Nasty, maybe, but hardly comparable to military action.

Yes and no. As far as the body count goes sanctions are obviously different. But from a political standpoint it's all the same thing. America or whom ever throwing their weight around to punish anyone who they disagree with.

[Joun_Lord]

I didn't say it was like war (atleast I don't think I did, I'd read my earlier posts to check but I hate reading that dickholes posts, he a dick). Still though it is interfering in the affairs of another nation simply because they are cunts.

Not wanting to do business with them is fine. Causing economic damage, unrelated to the economic damage that might be caused by saying "you can't have our shit and we ain't buying your shit", to them is not.

Plus making a potential enemy desperate, their people starving and needy, is a damn good way to make someone a real enemy and probably start a war. Usually trying to be friendly and open to trade, both with goods and ideals, tends to help out far more then saying "do what we say or else".

But even if its a good idea to deny Comrade Putin his Coca-Cola and Big Macs, anything beyond that should be an international thing. Again, UN or Eurocommie Union or Pan Asian Pacific Union whatever, they can deal with it.

Shut up stupid.

Flying their planes around our neighborhood isn't a threat. Its being dicks. America does the same thing including to our allies. Do you think America is threatening Motherfucker Russia or Sweden? Note that the US plane entered Swedish airspace because Ruskie planes were chasing us out of their territory.

Just to give you a reminder, Poland is a member of NATO. If Russia does something stupid against it, Poland can invoke the mutual protection clause of NATO and the US is obliged to assist Poland.

But until that time we shouldn't be antagonizing Russia or jumping the gun and preemptively attacking them with bombs or sanctions just because some ultranationalists said stupid shit. I'm sure you can find similar idiots in Murica (finding idiots in America, why thats like finding a needle in a stack of needles) saying we should invade Russia or Europe. Doesn't mean Europe or Russia should attack America or deny us imports of European smug or furry hats.

[The Romulan Republic]

I can give you a long list of reasons why Putin should be subject to sanctions beyond what some nationalist said:

1. He is blatantly antagonistic towards NATO and the West and has a vast horde of nuclear weapons, thus making him a threat.

2. His opponents tend to end up dead.

3. He discriminates against homosexuals.

4. He supports scum including Assad and Kim Jong Un.

I am aware that America has done these things, or at least similar things, to one degree or another, I'm not saying we don't need some reform ourselves, and if Putin wishes to sanction us back he has every right to do so. But I despise the man and I think he should be weakened in any way possible short of risking war.

[Joun_Lord]

I can give you a long list of reasons why Putin should be subject to sanctions beyond what some nationalist said:

1. He is blatantly antagonistic towards NATO and the West and has a vast horde of nuclear weapons, thus making him a threat.

2. His opponents tend to end up dead.

3. He discriminates against homosexuals.

4. He supports scum including Assad and Kim Jong Un.

I am aware that America has done these things, or at least similar things, to one degree or another, I'm not saying we don't need some reform ourselves, and if Putin wishes to sanction us back he has every right to do so. But I despise the man and I think he should be weakened in any way possible short of risking war.

1. Internal dickwaving and saying bad shit. He has nukes but unless he is using them then oh well.

2. An internal matter and totally not Putin's fault, totally. His opponents are just really, really, really clumsy or suicidal. Like that guy Nemtsov, he committed suicide by shooting himself 4 times from a passing car.

3. Its a horribly shitty policy but an internal one. An a comparatively humane one compared to some countries that imprison or kill gay people. I don't see us doing economic sanctions to those cuntries.

4. He keeps company that fits him but his friends being shitbags is not America's problem unless he was paying for Mitch McConnel's private jet or something.

Yes America has done much the same shit. We being antagonistic douchebags including invading sovereign nation because we felt like it, haven't had the best record on gay rights (up until recently we were barely better then the Ruskies and in some parts of the nation are about on par), and been buddies with foreign dictators and mass murderers. I think the only one we haven't done much of is killing our political opponents.

Putin is a bad man, a piece of shit who acts like a macho badass douche, hates minorities, and is only to happy to plunder the wealth of his nation (again, a perfect Republican candidate). But its not like he is the only one in the world plus he is a bad man of a complete other nation, IE not our problem.

We have no more right to slap him with our proud patriotic penises then other countries have the right to slap us with their flaccid Europeon johnsons because of the actions of Bush. Iraq or A-stan might have a case against us, same with the UN for breaking international laws. But its the same way with Putin and his gobbling up of Crimeariver like the worlds douchiest Pacman, a problem of the country he is fucking with and a international problem for breaking international agreements.

[Irbis]

Link is in Finnish, sorry about that;

Not that I doubt you, but do you have independent source of that? Perhaps one that would bother to clarify if these were singular shouts or the entire message of the rally?

I tried to check what exactly Helsingin Sanomat is, and it seems to be right wing tabloid newspaper advocating Finland joining NATO. If it's anywhere like Polish GW or TVN recently I'd take these revelations with a few trucks of salt.

The Russian ultranationalists are goading Putin the way the Japanese ultranationalists once goaded Hirohito.

Um, no. That's not how Russian ultranationalists think at all. They are big on Russian purity, and supported annexing Crimea (and possibly Donbas) because they see these as Russian lands with Russian people, wronged by arbitrary border lines drawn Georgians and Ukrainians in charge of Soviet Union. They explicitly don't support even annexing Ukraine/Belarus because these nations, while close, are seen by them as worse. Until that changes into a copy of US-like Manifest Destiny land grab, I'd cool my horses.

Support of rebuilding Soviet Union is almost non-existent in Russia, you'd have problems gathering single digit support of annexing Baltic states. Finland? Poland? Please, if they were left alone in 1945 when Soviet were able to annex them, what makes you think anyone would bother in 2015 even if Russia was somehow able to invade them? When almost no one would support it anyway? Some random shouts exagerated by Western press?

If you think Putin gives half a fuck about what Russian nationalists think, I have this prime land deed right in the middle of Red Square to sell. Perhaps someone be interested?

Just to give you a reminder, Poland is a member of NATO. If Russia does something stupid against it, Poland can invoke the mutual protection clause of NATO and the US is obliged to assist Poland.

Well, yes. But, before we go full stupid Jingo mode, can anyone of these people who bought into scaremongering message look at the map first and point out just how exactly in the blazes Russia can do anything against Poland? Hello, it's not 1989 anymore!

[Wojtek_Pod]

Don't forget that since 2000, Russia's army exercises include simulating nuking Warsaw. Many of the exercises were done also in Kaliningrad Oblast which has direct border with Poland (and is rather close to Warsaw).

Donald Tusk hasn't been always hawkish towards Russia - years of trying to establish (as a Prime Minister) friendlier relations caused him to be criticised by right-wingers in Poland. Too bad that Russia did many things that soured the relations (such as not returning the wreck of the Polish president's plane to Poland even it was promised by Russian president - it still hasn't been returned after 5 years). And invading a neighbour of Poland certainly didn't help.

Polish people have many reasons to be wary of Russia.

[Tiriol]

Link is in Finnish, sorry about that;

Not that I doubt you, but do you have independent source of that? Perhaps one that would bother to clarify if these were singular shouts or the entire message of the rally?

I tried to check what exactly Helsingin Sanomat is, and it seems to be right wing tabloid newspaper advocating Finland joining NATO. If it's anywhere like Polish GW or TVN recently I'd take these revelations with a few trucks of salt.

MTV has also reported this here (link in Finnish) and they cite RBC.ru as their source (Helsingin Sanomat used RBK and a different magazine as their sources) with a link. That link is in Russian, apparently, so I can't really confirm much of it without using dubious online translators. There's also a tabloid called Ilta-Sanomat which reported the news first, I think, in Finland, but I don't trust them that much, they have scare-mongering and general trash-talking as their MO.

And Helsingin Sanomat is right-wing, but they don't go around falsifying news or mis-reporting them.

[Simon_Jester]

Don't forget that since 2000, Russia's army exercises include simulating nuking Warsaw. Many of the exercises were done also in Kaliningrad Oblast which has direct border with Poland (and is rather close to Warsaw).

Frankly, if I were in charge of the Russian army and I found out that my war-game planners WEREN'T considering the event of an attack on Poland, I'd be disappointed in them.

Every country with any sense has plans for how they would fight any country on their borders, and probably any country near their borders.

Donald Tusk hasn't been always hawkish towards Russia - years of trying to establish (as a Prime Minister) friendlier relations caused him to be criticised by right-wingers in Poland. Too bad that Russia did many things that soured the relations (such as not returning the wreck of the Polish president's plane to Poland even it was promised by Russian president - it still hasn't been returned after 5 years). And invading a neighbour of Poland certainly didn't help.

Polish people have many reasons to be wary of Russia.

Absolutely. I would be only somewhat disappointed in a Russian general with no plans for how to fight Poland.

I would be incredibly disappointed in a Polish general with no plans for how to fight Russia.

The former is incompetence, the latter is a death wish.

[The Romulan Republic]

What exactly is Poland going to do to fight Russia besides get ready to be caught in the nuclear crossfire?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

We have a national security interest in crippling Russia economically to weaken them before they continue in the direction they are obviously going and attack a NATO country. You can debate the wisdom of that approach, but I think an argument can be made for it. But thanks for the generic anti-intervention rant.

Right, so we just slam the sanctions up to 11 like the ones on North Korea.... and then Russia gives nuclear weapons to Iran, a VDV division restores order in Syria for Assad, and Putin invades the Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia before they can join NATO and installs puppet regimes to create an economic sphere that lets him ride out the sanctions better, and oh funds a coup in the Republic Srpska to have it declare independence. Meanwhile, China refuses to join these sanctions and instead locks Russia into a tight geostrategic alliance in which it is the dominant partner, ala Germany and Austro-Hungary, strengthening China and preventing the sanctions from actually causing Putin to lose power. GENIUS plan!

[Alyrium Denryle]

3. Its a horribly shitty policy but an internal one. An a comparatively humane one compared to some countries that imprison or kill gay people. I don't see us doing economic sanctions to those cuntries.

No. It isn't strictly internal. Russia is currently trying to force the UN to do it as well. As it stands right now, the UN recognizes that legally married gay employees (like diplomats and aids etc) are to be treated as such within their host countries when abroad. So if there is a dutch WHO functionary who is posted to Russia or wherever, they are still entitled to the legal benefits of being married by the WHO itself (for insurance and the like, where relevant) and by the law of the host country (so they get hospital visitation etc).

So a gay american WHO employee who is in Turkey (or wherever) gets WHO health benefits for their spouse while they are in Turkey, and can have hospital visitation etc if their spouse gets hit by a car in Turkey.

Russia wants to do away with this.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/02/ru ... employees/

[AniThyng]

3. Its a horribly shitty policy but an internal one. An a comparatively humane one compared to some countries that imprison or kill gay people. I don't see us doing economic sanctions to those cuntries.

No. It isn't strictly internal. Russia is currently trying to force the UN to do it as well. As it stands right now, the UN recognizes that legally married gay employees (like diplomats and aids etc) are to be treated as such within their host countries when abroad. So if there is a dutch WHO functionary who is posted to Russia or wherever, they are still entitled to the legal benefits of being married by the WHO itself (for insurance and the like, where relevant) and by the law of the host country (so they get hospital visitation etc).

So a gay american WHO employee who is in Turkey (or wherever) gets WHO health benefits for their spouse while they are in Turkey, and can have hospital visitation etc if their spouse gets hit by a car in Turkey.

Russia wants to do away with this.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/02/ru ... employees/

Even so, that doesn't change the second part of the sentence, where we address the difficult issue of the US or other western nations punishing other (often 3rd or 2nd world) countries with economic (or other) sanctions for not respecting gay rights.