Skimmer and Stas Bush

[K. A. Pital]

Sokar

More than that, you're a moron. Obviously for such precedents the UN exists. If the UN has NOTHING against Iraq, then why some ambigious individuals can still insist there is something to attack it for?

[Knife]

Sokar

More than that, you're a moron. Obviously for such precedents the UN exists. If the UN has NOTHING against Iraq, then why some ambigious individuals can still insist there is something to attack it for?

Except for 17 UN resolutions, dumbass. The only thing the UN lacks, is the spine to enforce their resolutions. Hence, the US. Now the world knows what the US meant, when it put the words "serious consquences" in the 1441 resolution. If the UN could enforce its resolutions as a body, then the Isreal situation would be totally different, and all maner of other incidents would be radicaly different. But since the UN doesn't have a spine, it relies on what the US or NATO ( usually US) will do for it.

[Sokar]

Sokar
Morality and politics have NOTHING to do together.
Stated ling before by... Machiavelli (?is this correct spelling?).
Legitimate ruler is the legal power.

I can call you an idiot just as you did, because you seem to speak lots about morale where only mere politics exist.

LOL, politics and morals have nothing to do with each other, thats a laugh. But then your from the land of "lets starve and kill our own people while the rulers live in luxury that would make the Czar green with envy" so I guess you come by it naturally.

So your okay with Stalins gulags, Hitlers concentration camps, and the Rawandan Genocide, since thoes were all carried out by the 'legitimate ruler' of their repective nations. Your ok with Saddam mustard gassing Kurdish civilians, not soilders mind you , but women children and the elderly. My and I though I was a cold hearted cynic.....

We are intervening in a situaton , mostly of our oun making, that we should have cleaned up a decade ago. We aren't coming for you , Russia (Although I think sanctions are in order for your countrys brutal, needless war in Chechnya) or any other nation, unless of course you want to start playing world maddog anytime in the near future. Our action in the end will save more lives than it costs and create order and bring some much needed stability to the entire region. In time we will deal with North Korea, Iran(whos people by all accounts wouldn't mind a little USMC regime change) and in time that fucktard bin Laden.

[Montcalm]

Sokar

More than that, you're a moron. Obviously for such precedents the UN exists. If the UN has NOTHING against Iraq, then why some ambigious individuals can still insist there is something to attack it for?

The UN is a joke they did nothing in Rwanda when babies were slaughtered by a bunch of fucking idiots,assholes they are.

[Darth Fanboy]

"Most Russians don't care whether they are ruled by fascists
or communists or even Martians as long as they can buy six kinds
of sausage in the store and lots of cheap vodka."
Former Russian General Aleksander Lebed, RIP 2002

this mght explain a few things

thanks to Shep's wargaming page link for the quote

[Montcalm]

Now that an Iranian oil well has been hit by an Iraqi missile,and the arab network Aljazeera will say the American did it,i think the Iranians might get involved in it.

[Sea Skimmer]

Wow. I though Stas just felt strongly about his position. Its now clear he's delusional about the Iraq and the world.

[fgalkin]

Kelly Antilles
YOU don't KNOW ANYTHING of dictatorship. People LOVE dictatoships. If you attacked USSR and killed Stalin to "FREE" the Russian people from the tyrant, they would HATE you. You don't understand. Each country has the regime it deserves.

I would have to second that.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[fgalkin]

Stas WILL YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY?

Are you Crue's alterego and/or sockpuppet?

I don't think so.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Howedar]

So Stas, what do you think of Chechnya? Do you believe that it is necessary, justified, or righteous? Clearly your government does.

[Coyote]

Actually, Hameru, I don't believe you're a racist. I think you're a cynical political opportunist.

But to imply that there was this much protest for Clinton's War is laughable. The protests against Yugoslavia and Kosovo were miniscule, and don't try to pretend otherwise.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again-- so what about the oil? It doesn't matter if we're fighting "for oil" or not, the end result will still be Saddam gone. I am sure the people of Iraq will be much better off without him at the helm.

The Iraqis did give "unprecedented access"-- they used to let the inspectors go only to Disneyland, after filling out requests a month in advance. This time they let us go to Disneyland and the Mall, whenever we wanted. Such progress is I guess laudable in a cynical way, but still doesn't come close to where WMD storage sites would actually be.

And as for truth and government-- you flatly deny any truth to the American administration because many of our pretenses were built on faulty information or misleading statements. You say the American position is nothing but lies, and give it no benefit of the doubt.

OTOH, you stated fairly clearly that you would believe whatever the Iraqis said because they have been "more cooperative" (see prior paragraph) than before.

But while you say thay have been "more truthful" than BUsh, then what about:
Hiding 1,000 pounds of anthrax and never accounting for it?
A drone plane which, while innocuous, was nevertheless not allowed?
Missile warheads-- why need if they don't have, or plan not to make, gas?
Long range missiles, which were lied about at first?
Restricting access to bases and palaces?
No private interviews with scientists and families in safe locations?

This is truth? Bear in mind that the first war ended with a signed treaty from Iraq promising "full cooperations" with inspectors-- which never happened. We've been quite patient for many years, while this guy killed thousands of his challengers in brutal ways.

Saddam Hussein stands for genocide, and WMD use and proliferation. Why do you make spin control for him? If you think "It's none of our business, the Iraqi people should deal with him" but the Iraqi people can't! They've tried and been cut down like dogs and gassed in their homes. Surely you can't support this, yet it looks like you are. How does this fit in with your concern for human rights? From your perspective, the Normandy Invasions never should have happened, since France wasn't clamoring to be "liberated" from Germany.

[Hamel]

Blah blah blah

I'm not spindoctoring for anyone. You've managed to pull a Duchess AND an Axis in one post. If anything, you're the spindoctor. Faulty information? Misleading? Bullshit. They're outright lies.

And to call me an oppurtunist is laughable, considering (and I pointed it out already in another thread) that you'll start bashing liberals even when the topic has nothing to do with them.

[Ryoga]

So let's see here...

On one hand we have an "America is always right" retard (Axis Kast).

On the other we have an "America is always wrong" retard (Stas Bush).

Anybody else think it would be fun to set these two trolls loose in a small room with a wide assortment of Large Blunt Objects(Tm)?

[fgalkin]

So let's see here...

On one hand we have an "America is always right" retard (Axis Kast).

On the other we have an "America is always wrong" retard (Stas Bush).

Anybody else think it would be fun to set these two trolls loose in a small room with a wide assortment of Large Blunt Objects(Tm)?

Why, oh why, is every Russian on this board a troll?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Hamel]

*slaps knees*

haha

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

So let's see here...

On one hand we have an "America is always right" retard (Axis Kast).

On the other we have an "America is always wrong" retard (Stas Bush).

Anybody else think it would be fun to set these two trolls loose in a small room with a wide assortment of Large Blunt Objects(Tm)?

Why, oh why, is every Russian on this board a troll?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

You're not a troll...

[fgalkin]

So let's see here...

On one hand we have an "America is always right" retard (Axis Kast).

On the other we have an "America is always wrong" retard (Stas Bush).

Anybody else think it would be fun to set these two trolls loose in a small room with a wide assortment of Large Blunt Objects(Tm)?

Why, oh why, is every Russian on this board a troll?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

You're not a troll...

I was a troll long ago, but then I changed my ways. So, in fact, my statement stays. Every Russian on SD.net is, or was, a troll.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Howedar]

Yes, you have in fact gotten a lot better.

Maybe the same will happen with him.

[K. A. Pital]

Howedar

So Stas, what do you think of Chechnya? Do you believe that it is necessary, justified, or righteous? Clearly your government does.

I don't think that Chechnya was really necesarry. Some of my friends died there. But speaking of legitimate agression, Chechnya is the case. It's a simple strikedown of a terrorist rebellion in a country.
What was wrong with Chechnya? The will to send Russian troops there. What could have been done? Just leave the chechyens alone and guard the border strong. In a time, Chechnya will come in economical crisis and most likely dissapear as a state - it will join us, or anyone else.
But this had to be done many years ago. Now the mistake has been already done. I admit my government made the mistake. But you can't eliminate a mistake in the past by doing the same mistakes again. That's another reason to be against war in Iraq.
Coyote

A drone plane which, while innocuous, was nevertheless not allowed?

Drone plane? This is ridiculous. Try attacking a schoolboy making a "drone plane" of the same sort.

No private interviews with scientists and families in safe locations?

The Iraqi scientists hate these. I've heard their interview.

while this guy killed thousands of his challengers in brutal ways.

What the fuck? Where did you get that lie from? Saddam is sitting still in Iraq, attacking no one. You were attackers, not him. Reminds me of Goebbels propaganda, who told that "Soviets are planning a pre-emptitive strike". When Generaloberst Franz Halder came in Russia, he found the russian army totally unprepared for combat, giving small or no resistance in the first days. Exctly the same situation. Agressors. No resistance. Same old lies came from Goebbels right into the hands of new agressors.

It doesn't matter if we're fighting "for oil" or not, the end result will still be Saddam gone.

Oh, now I hear the truth. Oil does not matter - except that soon nearly ALL oil will be in the hands of the US. Preparing for the crisis. Which crisis? Probably the one caused in the world right NOW, by the actions of the US.
In fact, military experts say that a democratic state is unlikely to appear in Iraq. Most possible events: another dictator arises. So "we fight against Saddam" sounds strange.

where WMD storage sites would actually be.

Another lie. If the Iraq HAD WMD, US would have NEVER attacked it (I think that probably US became more humanist since Hiroshima). It's afraid to attack North Korea, isn't it? Oh, the Axis of the World's evil? Korea? Iraq? These are world-recognised independent states. They are nonbelligerent and non-agressive, unlike the US.

You say the American position is nothing but lies, and give it no benefit of the doubt.

It's not all lies. It's just a bit of lies, a bit of greed, a bit of moderate dishonesty, a bit of violence, agression and self-promoting. That's it.

I wonder, why everyone thinks that anti-war men are FOR Saddam? It's obviously untrue - but we prefere legitimate ways instead a display of brute force and agression. Check out 1945, Hiroshima. They're soooo good at mini-maximizing civilian casualties.

[SirNitram]

I wonder if our dear troll can come up with a 'proper means' of removing a tyrant, or a 'proper means' of declaring independence from a mother country. Because he seems to reject the two only proven methods(Killing the dictator, pulling away from the mother country) as bad.

[Howedar]

Guard the borders strong, and economic crisis would have brought Iraq back into the realm of civilization, certainly within the span of 12 years or so.


Wait...

[K. A. Pital]

SirNitram
What right does the US have to interfere in the policies of an independent state? Basically: who do they think they are? The "jandarms of the world", deciding who's good and who's bad, punishing those they dislike and encouraging who they like?
It does not matter, if it's Saddam - maybe the Korean leader will be next. And if someone does not share the ideals of the US - he must be kicked. Simple lesson, but I don't like that. I don't like when a state thinks it's allowed to do whatever it likes to just because it's so powerful.

[Howedar]

Iraq tried to assassinate Bush Sr, an act of war. There you go, there's your all-important cassus belli.

[K. A. Pital]

Howedar
No one can be brought "into" by violence. Yes, guard strong. Iraq has nothing to do against it. And I don't think Saddam is an idiot. If he made any agression, the whole world would kick him ass. Then anyone would have the right to fight back with the agressor.
But the US made the agression; not Saddam.

[Howedar]

Tell that to Kuwait, or Iran.