Russia warns Denmark not to join the NATO missile shield

[Borgholio]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/26749 ... mbassador/

Copenhagen (AFP) - Russia's ambassador to Denmark said Saturday that the NATO country's navy could be targeted by nuclear missiles if it joins the Western alliance's anti-missile shield.

The threat made by Ambassador Mikhail Vanin in an opinion piece he wrote for the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten sparked an angry reaction and came amid an increasingly Cold War-style standoff between Moscow and the West.

"I do not think that the Danes fully understand the consequences of what happens if Denmark joins the US-led missile defence," Ambassador Mikhail Vanin wrote in the daily.

"If this happens Danish warships become targets for Russian nuclear missiles."

Russia has long opposed NATO's missile shield -- launched in 2010 and due to be fully operational by 2025 -- in which member countries contribute radar and weaponry to protect Europe against missile attacks.

Denmark has pledged to supply one or more frigates equipped with advanced radar to track incoming missiles.

The chairwoman of the Danish parliament's foreign affairs, Mette Gjerskov told AFP that the comments were "very threatening and not necessary" as the missile shield was simply an "intruder alarm" and no danger to Russia.

"This is a way of escalating the verbal tone between Russia and NATO," she said, adding that the comments were also aimed at Russian public opinion.

"But it doesn't change the fact that we're not afraid."

Denmark's Foreign Minister Martin Lidegaard said the remarks were "unacceptable rhetoric" and "completely out of proportion".

"One should not threaten such serious things as the ambassador has done here," he told news agency Ritzau.

Tensions between Russia and the Nordic countries have risen in recent years with reports of increased Russian airforce incursions in the Baltic region.

Holger K. Nielsen, defence spokesman for the Socialist People's Party, which is opposed to Denmark's involvement in the NATO shield, called the ambassador's comments "crazy".

"His opinion is based on the assumption that a war has broken out and in that case Denmark, as a member of NATO, would already be a target," he told Jyllands-Posten.

NATO's European missile defence system is headquartered in Ramstein Germany since 2012.

It includes US missile destroying warships in Spain, Patriot anti-missile systems in Turkey, ship borne radar systems carried by several member countries and planned missile interceptors in Romania.

[TimothyC]

As if they are not targetting every major NATO military installation in the first place.

[cosmicalstorm]

Yeah funny Russians. The planning from the cold war called for the Östersund region to be blanketed with hydrogen bombs within 30 minutes.
Of course they don't want this as their nukes are a central part of their strength and they don't want to be put in a position where they have to fund them even more to get around missile defense.
Israel recently demonstrated the value of functional missile defense.
I fully expect them to covertly fund peace organizations in Europe who oppose missile defense.

[Eulogy]

In other words, "we will nuke you if you take steps to stop us from nuking you."

I'm sure that's REAL convincing.

[Broomstick]

As if they are not targetting every major NATO military installation in the first place.

^ This.

And vice-versa for the US.

That's kind of how the Cold War rolled.

[Elfdart]

Israel recently demonstrated the value of functional missile defense.

What "value"? The only "functional" part of Iron Dome was in convincing IDF fluffers that the thing worked when casualties were the same as the previous time Hamas launched their pathetic weapons.

[cosmicalstorm]

I think Iron Dome worked flawlessly but maybe I fell for zionist propaganda? They will use it until laser is ready for prime time.

[TimothyC]

I fully expect them to covertly fund peace organizations in Europe who oppose missile defense.

Yeah, this would just be a return to the norm of 1940-1990. It's public knowledge that the 'Green' and 'Peace' movements were started as Soviet fronts.

[Thanas]

What is the evidence of that? I know they sponsored some marxist movements in Germany and the terrorist RAF, but the green party seems to be free of that so far. Sure, some money might have been chucked their way but certainly they were not as co-opted as the 1960s student organizations.

[Simon_Jester]

I've had this conversation with TimothyC before; my take on it was that the Soviets found preexisting movements that had a genuine popular base of support, and elected to throw money at them.

Whether this constitutes making them "Soviet fronts" depends on your view of Red-baiting as a means of de-legitimizing a political movement.

[Thanas]

But that means that every NGO that speaks for democracy and gets money from the west would be a western front.

[Mange]

Reading Russian media is like looking at the world through a distorting mirror... Anyway, the TASS article isn't very interesting onto itself, though TASS has turned "Russian nuclear weapons" into "Russian precision weapons": TASS

[Simon_Jester]

But that means that every NGO that speaks for democracy and gets money from the west would be a western front.

Indeed. And whether or not that is true depends on your view of Westerner-baiting as a means of de-legitimizing a political movement, which arguably is a mirror image of the same question as the one about Red-baiting.

[AniThyng]

But that means that every NGO that speaks for democracy and gets money from the west would be a western front.

Indeed. And whether or not that is true depends on your view of Westerner-baiting as a means of de-legitimizing a political movement, which arguably is a mirror image of the same question as the one about Red-baiting.

I laughed. there is no easy way out. Give the money publicly and it's obvious it's a western front. Give the money quietly under the other guises and it's certainly beyond a shadow of doubt a western front.

[K. A. Pital]

I've had this conversation with TimothyC before; my take on it was that the Soviets found preexisting movements that had a genuine popular base of support, and elected to throw money at them.

Whether this constitutes making them "Soviet fronts" depends on your view of Red-baiting as a means of de-legitimizing a political movement.

I think throwing money at peace and green movements is in any case better than throwing money at fascists. Which is the difference between the USSR and, well, the US who is infamous for saving and financing fascists, in Europe too, via GLADIO, and modern Russia which funds various neo-fascist movements in Western and Eastern Europe.

Better being a foreign agent with a worthwhile cause than a non-foreign agent with a crappy cause.

[Patroklos]

Israel recently demonstrated the value of functional missile defense.

What "value"? The only "functional" part of Iron Dome was in convincing IDF fluffers that the thing worked when casualties were the same as the previous time Hamas launched their pathetic weapons.

How many casualties per missile? Your statement is worthless unless quite a few variables are controlled for between those instances.

Its an undisputable fact that Iron Dome shot down quite a few rockets, or various types, during its deployments. Any one of those could have hit a school, hospital, mosque/synagogue, market place, etc. We'll never know, but I bet if this ordinance was landing in your neighborhood I'm sure you would be quite happy that any of them were intercepted, whether that number was 10% of or 90%, and I bet you would feel that way regardless of whether your actual house had a 1% or 99% chance of being hit without it.

In any case the new USN base in Romania hosting Aegis Ashore opened up in Romania recently. I participated in the war gaming for this site last year and its it reasonably impressive site and capability. It also covers a good swath of Southern Europe from Russia even though it was not sited where it is for that purpose. Its a cheap BMD capability for a small scale attack. What it is not is some shield against a full on Russian nuclear assault. You would need dozens of these sites or similar plus the sea based assets to even approach a capability that would upset a MAD scenario's calculus.

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy-to-com ... a-1.307364

On Russian propaganda I read an article yesterday that the Russians chased the USS Theodore Roosevelt out of the ocean into Portsmouth UK. It was pretty impressive, what with a pack of Akula's hounding the CVN across the Baltic with magic "magrav" weapons. Nevermind the TR's worldwide tour (its transferring homeports from Norfolk VA to San Diego CA, its escort USS Normandy actually gets to circumnavigate the world which is awesome for them) was announced long ago. My next door neighbor had plane tickets to meet her husband in the UK six months ago. Anyway this is now all over the conspiracy sites, below is an example.

http://tapnewswire.com/2015/03/how-the- ... e-us-navy/