TIE Fighter short movie

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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Simon_Jester »

What does talifan mean?
Patroklos wrote:Not the same thing as I am talking about. In that example its still a Y-wing squadron of nothing but Y-wings directed by a leader in a Y-wing doing Y-wing stuff. In this case we appear to have an element with three different space frames as a coherent unit with a TIE interceptor pilot directing the specific tactical actions of other elements.

So its not just whole squadrons or homogenous craft cooperating on different missions entirely (Y-wings take strike, X-wings take CSP), but it appears to me that have actually integrated down to flight elements themselves. Whether that's a normal Imperial fighter division that persists or just a custom strike package for this specific mission or just an improvisational arrangement I don't know, but I like it :D
I would consider it debateable whether this is good practice, although obviously it depends on circumstances. Having a flight element with drastically different spaceframes mixed together means that the element will maneuver at the speed of the slowest craft, among other things.
WATCH-MAN wrote:I wonder how many people, who do know only the movies, would see this video and say: "Yes, this is Star Wars as I know it".

To be honest: I have seen it and thought that this has nothing to do with Star Wars as I know it. The ships looked like Star Wars ships. But what happened didn't look like anything I have ever seen in Star Wars.

To me it looks like the wet dream of a Star Wars talifan.

It does not show what Star Wars is but what it is supposed to be - according to the convictions of said talifan.
It occurs to me that this is something people might want to see in Star Wars as purely generic fans of space opera. It's a quite compelling space battle scene, which happens to profit considerably from the fact that Star Wars gives us a good background for who's shooting at each other, why, and with what.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Talifan is a term created by Karen Traviss and her followers to critisize the SW fans who pointed out that her 3 million clones were far too small a number. Not that I was really involved, I was merely a spectator.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by phongn »

The creator put up some project notes
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

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Adamskywalker007 wrote:Talifan is a term created by Karen Traviss and her followers to critisize the SW fans who pointed out that her 3 million clones were far too small a number. Not that I was really involved, I was merely a spectator.
Was actually I think coined by Brian Herbert in regards to fans of the Dune series angry about his violating of his father's body of work. The term is supposed to mean an angry fan angry about someone violating their vision of the universe and that somehow being comparable to the Taliban much like gaming trolls verbally attacking women on the internet can be compared to ISIS.

For us, it seemed to be any Star Wars fan who was a detractor of Traviss, as said by Traviss herself and Starwars.com Dark Moose. Much like the later Gamergate stupid shit fandom war the sides in the debate tried to paint the opposing as complete monsters and akin to religious tyrants, along with accusations of misogyny because the targets were predominately female (while partially valid for both it is ignoring the previous similar attacks on Brian Herbert outside SW and in SW attacks on KJA and GG attacks on Phil Fish is who probably a guy). Ones opinion of the validity of these attacks on character would be dependent of their view of the conflict. The conflict was probably made by worse in both cases by feeding of the more trollish movements and personal attacks on peoples characters, Traviss threatening garroting fans and labeling her detractors as the aforementioned Talifans and gaming media sites having a mass attack on gamers and declaring the death of gamers (their identity).

A really fucking low point for the Star Wars community much like Gamergate is for Gaming. Fandom turned from something fun into something rather dark and disgusting, hateful and disrespectful.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Simon_Jester »

Adamskywalker007 wrote:Talifan is a term created by Karen Traviss and her followers to critisize the SW fans who pointed out that her 3 million clones were far too small a number. Not that I was really involved, I was merely a spectator.
How could that possibly be connected to thinking this animated short was good?
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by AniThyng »

It certainly captures the spirit of the TIE fighter game though. I mean, the tug even gets shown...
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Soontir C'boath »

Aside from the tug and shuttle mentioned before, another thing that comes to mind is that the TIE pilots should have been ready to launch before coming out of hyperspace instead of running to their craft.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by AniThyng »

Soontir C'boath wrote:Aside from the tug and shuttle mentioned before, another thing that comes to mind is that the TIE pilots should have been ready to launch before coming out of hyperspace instead of running to their craft.
Shuttles to capture or do combat search and rescue, tugs to rearm. I'm not sure what that compares to the scramble scene at all...
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Soontir C'boath »

Shuttles should be launched after the battle is over and the bombers should return to their mothership to rearm. Having shuttles and tugs around just add easy targets that require escorts.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by AniThyng »

Soontir C'boath wrote:Shuttles should be launched after the battle is over and the bombers should return to their mothership to rearm. Having shuttles and tugs around just add easy targets that require escorts.
practicality aside,that is faithful to the games.
Last edited by AniThyng on 2015-03-25 08:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Patroklos »

DRAMA! We actually don't know what the time frame between the report of the Rebels by the probe droid and when the Imperials arrive. The fact that there was a probe droid at all makes me think there were Imperials nearby. For all we know that Imperial fleet was just one system over, a few minutes jump away. Those pilots could be running from a wardroom, their breakfasts half eaten on the table. Hell, the reason we see AT-ATs moving may be because they were doing something else shortly before and were actually clearing them out of the launch area.

But we all know its just DRAMA! We can in universe justify it all we want, but it was cool so it made the cut is all their is too it.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Soontir C'boath »

AniThyng wrote:
Soontir C'boath wrote:Shuttles should be launched after the battle is over and the bombers should return to their mothership to rearm. Having shuttles and tugs around just add easy targets that require escorts.
That's how the game did it, yes
Yes, I know. I am adding to the commentary.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by AniThyng »

Soontir C'boath wrote:
AniThyng wrote:
Soontir C'boath wrote:Shuttles should be launched after the battle is over and the bombers should return to their mothership to rearm. Having shuttles and tugs around just add easy targets that require escorts.
That's how the game did it, yes
Yes, I know. I am adding to the commentary.
Ah, okay.

Not really related but it makes me laugh when some people blame the anime nature of it for some aspects they don't like that are ironically actually faithful to the film - I recall back when the preview was up on youtube some people complaining it sucks (compared to "the real thing") because the rebel fighters were too fragile.

I think in the finished version he's actually turned up the durability of the rebel fighters a tad, which still makes them more durable than what we saw in ANH...:D
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by AniThyng »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Adamskywalker007 wrote:Talifan is a term created by Karen Traviss and her followers to critisize the SW fans who pointed out that her 3 million clones were far too small a number. Not that I was really involved, I was merely a spectator.
How could that possibly be connected to thinking this animated short was good?
The only thing that comes to mind as being "not star wars" is that we don't see missile spam in the OT. Otherwise I got nothing.

Unless he thinks it's "not star wars" to have star destroyers actually use their firepower, because ROTJ is holy writ for how battles must be shown.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

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AniThyng wrote:The only thing that comes to mind as being "not star wars" is that we don't see missile spam in the OT. Otherwise I got nothing.

Unless he thinks it's "not star wars" to have star destroyers actually use their firepower, because ROTJ is holy writ for how battles must be shown.
I he probably means "not Star Wars" in that the Rebels all die and we see things mostly from Imperial perspectives. It's the idea that the clip was rooting for the Empire.
Patroklos wrote:I am not sure where you are getting this. The whole point of fighters is to push off engagement distances do your high value motherships/support ships are not exposed to danger. Fighters are cheap and losing one doesn't doom everyone. If you were just going to save your fighters to engage alongside your capital ships you should just invest in more firepower on your capital ships instead of fighters as that is a far more efficient use of tonnage.
I meant that they engaged with fighters first before having their capital ships opening fire rather than immediately supporting them. In contrast in ROTJ, Rebel fighters only attacked the Imperial fleet when they had friendly capital ship support. In this video the Rebel fighters generally seemed to be used as expendable assets as well, but they were presumably operating on the assumption

For a real life contrast, the Soviet carrier/cruiser hybrids all had heavy missile armaments that would be fired immediately in support of their aircraft(that were generally weaker and more poorly armed than the US standard). Why would ISDs not do the same thing? I realize Endor was a trap and thus not indicative, but it seems odd they would have no support whatsoever.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Rekkon »

Launching shuttles and tugs early makes a certain amount of sense, especially in this case where the Empire had overwhelming numerical superiority, and the Rebels probably could not spare fighters to engage secondary targets. If a pilot ejects early, he might not survive the duration of the battle, and any craft launching/landing would require the shield to be opened. If you lose a rearming tug, no big deal. A couple torpedoes into the landing bay jeopardizes all of the destroyer's starfighter operations, and probably means some capital ship dry dock time afterwards.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by Patroklos »

Adamskywalker007 wrote: I meant that they engaged with fighters first before having their capital ships opening fire rather than immediately supporting them. In contrast in ROTJ, Rebel fighters only attacked the Imperial fleet when they had friendly capital ship support. In this video the Rebel fighters generally seemed to be used as expendable assets as well, but they were presumably operating on the assumption
In the short we clearly see a sensor operator's screen showing the capital ships move within range of the Rebel ships and they open fire as soon as this happens. There is nothing to point to that says they would have held their fire had they been in range from the get go. The opening combat sequence shows fighters meeting fighters, only several sequences later do we see the Imperial fighters go for the rebel capital ships (if you can call a Nebulon-B that) and they don't do with what I assume were purpose built anti ship weapons like we see the Rebels use on the Interdictor but rather their normal laser cannons.

What I think:

The initial Imperial fighter deployment was to disrupt the rebel fighters, not attack the rebel HVU's. This makes sense as in most media the Rebels invest their firepower in their fighters to make them more capable of engaging capital ships and indeed the first fighter on capital ship sequence we see is Rebel's attacking Imperials. Even the TIE bombers are not seen attacking Rebel capital ships which is presumably a primary mission for them, rather they are seem to use their significant payloads against fighter groups. So basically from observing this short the only purpose of every Imperial fighter deployed we see is to disrupt Rebel fighter activity and keep them away from the Star Destroyers. This might be because in this particular situation the Imperial forces were not strong enough to do both (superiority and strike), but even if just doing superiority they still would do so as far away from the targets they are protecting as they can.
For a real life contrast, the Soviet carrier/cruiser hybrids all had heavy missile armaments that would be fired immediately in support of their aircraft(that were generally weaker and more poorly armed than the US standard). Why would ISDs not do the same thing? I realize Endor was a trap and thus not indicative, but it seems odd they would have no support whatsoever.
This is not what Soviet doctrine was. There was never any expectation that the Soviet land based air attacks into the GUIK gap would be in concert with their surface action groups. The reason that soviet surface ships had such powerful ASMs is that the Soviet didn't have a choice. That was the only way they could make them relevant against US CSGs and they knew this was a likely losing proposition for them (hence their primary method was to use long range land based bomber aircraft). Where the Soviets did deploy carriers they gave have ASMs because they knew their CAGs are so underwhelming compared to US CSGs that while they may get a good punch with their aircraft once their carrier will essentially become just another surface cruiser in short order. They were never going to be available in numbers for the Russians to say they had comparable CSGs vice a SAG with a few aircraft available. And the Soviets knew this, there might have been a few dreamers in the Russian Navy of using carrier based aircraft to sink US CSGs but their primary purpose was SAG defense against those superior US CSGs, not offensive purposes. It was never intended that a Soviet carrier would use their ASMs and air wing as a combined strike package as a matter of course, it is ridiculous to throw away the range of your embarked fixed wing aircraft so that the carriers launched ASMs could strike the same target. It defeats the whole purpose.

EDIT: I just realized that I have been thinking of this from just the strike perspective, with the air wing and the carrier acting in unison against a target. Perhaps you meant that the carrier was the only strike asset and the aircraft were just there to fly CAP to allow the carrier to do that mission unmolested. If that was what you meant then yeah perhaps, ignore the above. That is exactly what we see the Imperials do here.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by RogueIce »

AniThyng wrote:It certainly captures the spirit of the TIE fighter game though. I mean, the tug even gets shown...
And that missile warning tone. God damn that missile warning tone... Image
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by AniThyng »

The production notes are pretty funny to read too.
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Re: TIE Fighter short movie

Post by RogueIce »

Get some decent voice actors and a budget and I would totally watch this as a fan series. I like the character profiles, and it seems like a decent blend of both X-Wing series, only for the Empire, with some good humor straight out of the Wraith novels but the action being pretty badass as from the Rogue novels.
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"How can I wait unknowing?
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