Saudis lead air campaign in Yemen

[FaxModem1]

CNN

Saudi-led coalition strikes rebels in Yemen, inflaming tensions in region
By Greg Botelho and Saeed Ahmed, CNN
Updated 12:08 PM ET, Thu March 26, 2015

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WASHINGTON, DC - MARCH 25: Saudi Arabian Ambassador to the United States Adel bin Ahmed Al-Jubeir annouonces that Saudi Arabia is conducting military air strikes in Yemen during a news conference at the Saudi Arabian Embassy March 25, 2015 in Washington, DC. Working with Gulf Cooperation Council allies, Saudi Arabia is responding to a request by Yemen President Abed Rabbo Mansour Hadi's to help preserve the "legitimate government" against the Houti insurrection. (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)
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Caption:BERLIN, GERMANY - OCTOBER 04: Abdrabuh Mansur Hadi, President of the Republic of Yemen, arrives at the Chancellery to meet with German Chancellor Angela Merkel on October 4, 2012 in Berlin, Germany. President Hadi succeeds former Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh following bloody uprisings in Yemen months ago. (Photo by Sean Gallup/Getty Images)
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Story highlights
Officials say deposed Yemeni President Abdu Rabu Mansour Hadi is in Oman, headed to Egypt next
Saudi adviser says the coalition controls the country's airspace
Iran slams the Saudi-led intervention; the Houthi rebels remain defiant
(CNN)Saudi and allied warplanes struck rebels in Yemen on Thursday, with Saudi Arabia threatening to send ground troops and inserting itself into its southern neighbor's civil war, potentially opening up a broader sectarian conflict in the Middle East.

The swift and sudden action involved 100 Saudi jets, 30 from the United Arab Emirates, 15 each from Kuwait and Bahrain, 10 from Qatar, and a handful from Jordan, Morocco and Sudan, plus naval help from Pakistan and Egypt, according to a Saudi adviser.

The Egyptian state news agency on Thursday quoted Egypt's Foreign Ministry as saying Egypt's support also could involve ground forces.

What do those countries have in common? They're all predominantly Sunni Muslim -- in contrast to the Houthi rebels, Shiite Muslims who have taken over Yemen's capital of Sanaa and on Wednesday captured parts of its second-largest city, Aden. The Saudis consider the Houthis as proxies for the Shiite government of Iran and fear another Shiite-dominated state in the region.

"What they do not want is an Iranian-run state on their southern border," CNN military analyst Lt. Col. Rick Francona said of the Saudis.

Saudis strike to defend 'legitimate government' of Yemen
Saudis strike to defend 'legitimate government' of Yemen 01:28
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The airstrikes did not include warplanes from the United States, which has worked with Yemeni governments -- including that of recently deposed but still battling President Abdu Rabu Mansour Hadi -- to go after al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. In fact, a senior official in President Barack Obama's administration said "there will be no military intervention by the U.S."

But U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Thursday did tell foreign ministers from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain and Oman that the United States commends the military action and is supporting it through intelligence sharing, targeting assistance and logistical support, according to a senior State Department official.

How did Yemen get to this place?

Iran upset, Houthis defiant
Iran denounced the military intervention. Marzieh Afkham, a spokeswoman for the country's Foreign Ministry, said the operation will throw an already complicated situation into further turmoil and disrupt chances at a peaceful resolution to Yemen's monthslong internal strife. It also won't help a region already facing terrorist threats from groups like ISIS and al Qaeda, she said.

"This is a dangerous action against international responsibilities to respect countries' national sovereignty," Afkham said, according to a report in Iran's state-run Islamic Republic News Agency.

Iraq -- 60% of whose citizens are Shiite, with about 20% being Sunnis -- offered similar, albeit a bit more muted opposition to what its Foreign Ministry called "the military interference of the Gulf Cooperation Council," which is made up of Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

"We call on the Arab states to live up to their role to support national dialogue (that includes) all political forces to find a political solution for the crisis," the Iraqi ministry said.

And the move was met with defiance by the Houthis, a minority group that has emerged as the most powerful player in Yemen.

"This is a clear aggression, and we will respond by a counteraggression," Ali Al Imad, a leading member of the group's political wing, Ansar Allah, told CNN Arabic. "The Saudi move will unite all the people of Yemen against the Saudis, and the kingdom will pay the price."

In addition to airstrikes, the Saudi adviser said 150,000 troops could take part in an operation in Yemen.

Imad predicted that if the Saudis try to invade with ground forces, they'll fail.

"They probably will try to avoid that, but if it happened, then they will pay a very high price," he said.

Targets in Sanaa, other Yemeni cities pounded
Just a day in, the coalition airstrikes are already costing the Houthis.

Hundreds of explosions ripped through Sanaa overnight, said journalist Hakim Almasmari, who is staying in the capital. The Health Ministry reported 18 dead and 24 wounded in Sanaa alone, the Houthi-run Saba news agency said.


While Sanaa was a focus -- airstrikes destroyed the Houthis' combat and control operations there, the Saudi adviser said -- it wasn't the only place struck. Compounds and military installations in Saada and Taiz also were targeted.

By Thursday afternoon, the Saudis controlled Yemeni airspace, the adviser said, and the military threatened to destroy any naval ships trying to enter Yemeni ports.

The military operation, dubbed al-Hazm Storm, was launched after the Houthis rebuffed an initiative by the Gulf Cooperation Council, Arab League chief Nabil al-Arabi said in a speech Thursday. It was done in accord with a joint Arab defense treaty, al-Arabi said.

Specifically, the strikes aim to support Hadi, who was ousted in January after talks with the Houthis faltered, but still claims to be Yemen's rightful leader.

"We are determined to protect the legitimate government of Yemen," said Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudi ambassador to the United States. "Having Yemen fail cannot be an option for us or for our coalition partners."

Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry on Thursday proposed a joint Arab military "to deal with these challenges."

But at least one major player in Yemen besides the Houthis -- the General People's Congress, which is the party of longtime leader Ali Abdullah Saleh -- thinks the Saudis and their partners should stay out.

The GPC says the airstrikes have already led to civilian casualties. The best way to stop the bloodshed is to bring everyone to the negotiating table, the group said.

"The (party) expresses its rejection of the attack on the Republic of Yemen and the capital, Sanaa, considering what (is) happening is an internal affair," the GPC said in a statement. "... The General People's Congress (calls on all parties) to return to and accelerate the completion of a national, historic agreement that ... maintains unity and democracy."

Officials: Deposed President in Oman
Meanwhile, the last person to be elected President of Yemen -- even if he was the only one on the ballot -- is out of the country and will soon be headed to Egypt to petition Arab officials, according to Yemeni officials.

The location of Hadi had been a mystery for days, with conflicting reports about whether he'd left Yemen and where he'd gone.

On Thursday, two Yemeni officials close to Hadi said that the deposed president is in Oman. His next stop, on Friday, will be an Arab League summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

Meanwhile, some 3,000 to 5,000 troops from the Saudi-led coalition are expected to reach Aden, the Yemeni city that was Hadi's last known location, in the next three days, according to the officials.

Their aim is to make that port city safe enough for Hadi to return to after the Arab League summit.

Whether the rest of Yemen will be secure at that point is another matter. Unfortunately, there's been little in the last few months to inspire optimism that peace is around the corner.

Well, the situation in the Middle East just got worse.

[K. A. Pital]

Saudi Arabia are Wahhabist filth whose political goal is a jihadist Sunni monolith in the Middle East. Just as I said in the other thread.

[Flagg]

Saudi Arabia are Wahhabist filth whose political goal is a jihadist Sunni monolith in the Middle East. Just as I said in the other thread.

Yeap. That's why they aren't using those bombs on ISIS, because even though ISIS may pose a threat to Saudi Arabia one day, right now they don't, and the Saudi's only kill Sunni's by giving them money to fly planes into the buildings of their so-called allies. Though it is nice to see the piss drinking sons of circus whores get their hands dirty for once and not rely on the US to do their dirty work and then pay more terrorists to kill American civilians.

[K. A. Pital]

Heh, they aren't even pretending: they are not bombing the great bogeyman, Al Quaeda in Yemen, either. The 'goverment' of Yemen barely controls a few provinces. The only thing Saudis will accomplish is the partitioning of Yemen.

Funny how the US is completely silent on the matter. What happened with the 'we must stand up to dictatorial regimes that attack other nations'?

[Broomstick]

The US says the Saudis aren't a dictatorship, they're a monarchy.

As if there is any difference between "dictatorship" and "absolute monarchy".

[Ziggy Stardust]

Given how paranoid the Saudis are about Iranian (Shia) influence on their neighbors, and given how the Yemeni government is practically non-existent already, is there any chance the Saudis would have the motivation to directly annex Yemen (or install some puppet regime)?

[Gandalf]

Funny how the US is completely silent on the matter. What happened with the 'we must stand up to dictatorial regimes that attack other nations'?

Stas, they're clearly using realpolitik in the long game against this week's opponent.

[Block]

Remind me when the Houthis were declared the official government of Yemen? I'm pretty sure the Saudis and their allies were invited in by the elected President of Yemen no?

[K. A. Pital]

Remind me when the Houthis were declared the official government of Yemen? I'm pretty sure the Saudis and their allies were invited in by the elected President of Yemen no?

I am also pretty sure the houthis rebelled because the IS and AQ in Yemen were operating with impunity, killing hundreds of people routinely, and Saudis were funding them. Even now they are not bombing them.

[Thanas]

A few points:

1. Yemen is not a state, it is a tribal organization. The state as such has and always had little authority. For example, if you want an archeology permit the word of the local tribes means much more than the state.
2. What happens here is that the Saudis decided they'd rather have one Sunni tribe in charge instead of the (previously winning) Shiite tribe supported by Iran. In other words, this is Iran and Saudi-Arabia waging a proxy war over who's got the bigger genitals and who gets to call the shot - as well as the tribal conflict between the two tribes.

[K. A. Pital]

A few points:

1. Yemen is not a state, it is a tribal organization. The state as such has and always had little authority. For example, if you want an archeology permit the word of the local tribes means much more than the state.
2. What happens here is that the Saudis decided they'd rather have one Sunni tribe in charge instead of the (previously winning) Shiite tribe supported by Iran. In other words, this is Iran and Saudi-Arabia waging a proxy war over who's got the bigger genitals and who gets to call the shot - as well as the tribal conflict between the two tribes.

So, Yemen is not a state which makes it okay to directly attack it? Thanas, you are getting more and more pathetic in your lame excuses for imperialism. That is not even in the general proxy war rules, that is a direct attack by another nation's military in what is an internal matter of another state.

And yes, I know why you are doing it. Saudi Arabia, that shitpiece of a state, is a German customer who likes to buy German weapons. Unlike Sweden, Germany has no integrity and no balls to stand up to the fucked up House of Saud where being gay yields you death and being an atheist - flogging, and women are nothing but cattle. And Germany keeps selling weapons to the Saudis, it approved another shipment just early this year.

But next time try to be discreet. No need to hide a blatant and direct imperialist attack by so-called regional powers on another nation under the crazy 'they are not a nation' talk. So what if North and South Yemen formed a unified nation only recently? Many states in the Middle East are like this.

[Thanas]

So, Yemen is not a state which makes it okay to directly attack it? Thanas, you are getting more and more pathetic in your lame excuses for imperialism. That is not even in the general proxy war rules, that is a direct attack by another nation's military in what is an internal matter of another state.

And yes, I know why you are doing it. Saudi Arabia, that shitpiece of a state, is a German customer who likes to buy German weapons. Unlike Sweden, Germany has no integrity and no balls to stand up to the fucked up House of Saud where being gay yields you death and being an atheist - flogging, and women are nothing but cattle. And Germany keeps selling weapons to the Saudis, it approved another shipment just early this year.

Nowhere did I say it was okay for Saudi-Arabia to do so. You know full well what I think of that state and what I think of saudi-sponsored religious islamists (if you don't, just search for my views on their religion and ISIS. But it is funny that you don't know so, given you have posted in threads where I wrote those views down).

I am disappointed that you would think I would be in favor of them attacking others. I am even more disappointed that you think that any attempt at providing a general context (and rooting this conflict in the usual powerplay between Iran and Iraq) is direct cheerleading for a Saudi attack. And it is even more pathetic that you would think I would be doing so because Saudi-Arabia is buying weapons.

So in short, get your fucking strawman and ad hominem out of this thread, asshole.


EDIT: Honestly, I still don't quite get how explaining the wider context of the conflict gets twisted into "you must support the air strikes, you Imperialist". Fucking extremism.

[K. A. Pital]

Well, are you not equating Saudi Arabia (a nation directly bombing the country) with Iran, who at most gave some material support to the Shia rebels? By saying that Yemen is not a state, you devalue its statehood, its borders, its right to settle internal affairs without foreign countries directly attacking it and therefore excuse the Saudi actions.

That is very easy. If I say 'Ukraine is not a state, it is just a part of Russia mashed together with some formerly Polish lands', it becomes pretty clear what I'd be standing for, right? If someone likewise says Iraq is not a nation, by that he wants to devalue its sovereignity and statehood, thereby excusing the American aggression.

Don't you think it is a bit arrogant to say 'they are not a state'? What else is not a state? Libya? Syria?

You did not even mention that South and North Yemen preceded Yemen as state entities, or that they were delineated by the Sunni Shia split. You flat out said that Yemen is not a state and the rebellion is not a matter of Yemen but actually a 'proxy war' between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Well, Iran does not seem to be attacking Yemen directly, so it is quite clear whose involvement is way beyond supporting a side in a proxy war and is now nothing but an open aggression.

[Thanas]

Well, are you not equating Saudi Arabia (a nation directly bombing the country) with Iran, who at most gave some material support to the Shia rebels?

I am not, as I have not passed a value judgement on either. I said both countries are involved. That is all. EDIT: I also said that this is another in the long list of attempts of Saudi-Arabia and Iran to gain regional supremacy. That too is not passing a moral judgement on either.

By saying that Yemen is not a state, you devalue its statehood, its borders, its right to settle internal affairs without foreign countries directly attacking it and therefore excuse the Saudi actions.

Just because somebody is a tribal organization does not mean it deserves to be invaded. Otherwise I would have to agree with the US genocide against the Native Americans. You know that I don't, so I don't get how you could arrive at the giant fucking strawman you are still building.

Don't you think it is a bit arrogant to say 'they are not a state'? What else is not a state? Libya? Syria?

Libya right now seems to be on the fast track to anarchy and seems to disintegrate. It will resemble more like Somalia if things continue this way, and Somalia is not a state right now. As for Syria it still has a functioning central government (although one that controls only half the country) so still a state.

PS: In case this wasn't fucking clear, a tribal organization like Yemen is still a sovereign nation under international law.

[Patroklos]

Yeap. That's why they aren't using those bombs on ISIS, because even though ISIS may pose a threat to Saudi Arabia one day, right now they don't, and the Saudi's only kill Sunni's by giving them money to fly planes into the buildings of their so-called allies.

Yeah, about that...

Saudi Typhoons Use Paveway IV Bombs on ISIS

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /23982221/

Your rhetoric is a bit behind reality.

[K. A. Pital]

Just because somebody is a tribal organization does not mean it deserves to be invaded. Otherwise I would have to agree with the US genocide against the Native Americans. You know that I don't, so I don't get how you could arrive at the giant fucking strawman you are still building.

...

Libya right now seems to be on the fast track to anarchy and seems to disintegrate. It will resemble more like Somalia if things continue this way, and Somalia is not a state right now. As for Syria it still has a functioning central government (although one that controls only half the country) so still a state.

PS: In case this wasn't fucking clear, a tribal organization like Yemen is still a sovereign nation under international law.

That was very clear to arrive there, Thanas. Each and every colonialist and imperialist apologist falls to 'they were not a (real) state" type of language to justify everything from US invasions to the old British and Portuguese conquests. It was not clear and the language was strange, to say the least. I gave some analogies. It is my personal opinion that no matter how young and fragile a country is, it still deserves to be called a country. Too long has this been used to deny statehood and its privileges to other people.

[Ralin]

Stas, you do realize that Thanas isn't using state and country interchangeably, righ?

[K. A. Pital]

Yemen, especially united Yemen, is a very recent thing. It is easy to understand it in a way that excuses this. We had our share of debates with Thanas and I still remember his strangely naive ideas about colonialism.

[Thanas]

Yemen, especially united Yemen, is a very recent thing. It is easy to understand it in a way that excuses this. We had our share of debates with Thanas and I still remember his strangely naive ideas about colonialism.

How about you fucking stop trying to interpret things into my words which I never said? You first claim I said stuff which I never said (and anybody familiar with my opinion about Saudi-Arabia, which I know you are, would not say so), then you veer into this. You do know there is a difference between sovereign nation/country and a state (as it pertains to the organization of said nation), right? But I guess the need to cry Imperialism beats everything.

FFS. Either debate what I said or ask for clarification, but don't fucking strawman me into oblivion.

[Simon_Jester]

In a condition of genuine anarchy, one may look at a patch of land and argue that there is "no state in this place."

Civil war is distinct from anarchy.

[Thanas]

In a condition of genuine anarchy, one may look at a patch of land and argue that there is "no state in this place."

Civil war is distinct from anarchy.

And one might also remember that state can also mean the organization of a nation.

[K. A. Pital]

How about you fucking stop trying to interpret things into my words which I never said? You first claim I said stuff which I never said (and anybody familiar with my opinion about Saudi-Arabia, which I know you are, would not say so), then you veer into this. You do know there is a difference between sovereign nation/country and a state (as it pertains to the organization of said nation), right? But I guess the need to cry Imperialism beats everything.

FFS. Either debate what I said or ask for clarification, but don't fucking strawman me into oblivion.

This is a thread about Saudi Arabia bombing Yemen. Okay, let's say a Sunni coalition built around the Saudis bombing Yemen.

Your explanation seemed to casually dismiss Yemen as a non-state entity. Even if you clearly state that 'non-state entities also should be protected from wanton attacks', it still leaves an impression of you being very condescending towards them. Sorry.

Of course by now Yemen, as a state, has all but disintegrated. There's AQAP, there's IS, there's the Houthis and remnants of the Yemeni political system in Sanaa that sided with the Shia. But it does not mean Yemen was not a state, or that the long-playing events of the Arab spring there actually mean an end to their statehood, which is what one may infer from your statements. That is a bit premature, don't you think? Even in a civil conflict there are systems of control, and there's a chain of command, and usually when it comes to this every party is a miniature 'state', or at least the larger ones are. Libya was also a state at the time of foreign intervention, and it even had a more or less centralized goverment afterwards, though not for long; it could be said that the light attitude towards islamist involvement in the civil war is what led to the later fracturing of Libya and the current situation.

I found your attitude towards the events in Yemen to be inexplicable, so the first natural explanation was that you are only saying this because Saudi Arabia is a Western client (and moreso a German client, too) and I've seen you'd go to great lengths to protect the image of the Western, and especially European, countries. There you go.

It is also very strange of you to call the two parts of Yemen 'tribes'. Those were also states, not tribes.

[Prannon]

I remember - when I was in college - reading an article about how the world today solidifies states and doesn't really allow for any real changes in the order of states. That is, in general, the world is loathe to allow new states to be created or old states to be destroyed, barring facts on the ground. Don't ask me to produce the article; it was 9-10 years ago.

Anyway, I remember that the article focused a great deal of attention on Africa, and pointed out that there were "failed states" there where the central government had fallen apart and that other various fractured forces were in charge. Liberia, Somalia, perhaps the DRC come to mind. It might have made sense to allow these various factions to create their own sustainable states out of the mess, but that's not what the statist order allowed.

The article's ultimate argument hinged on this one point. Even though the central governments of these states had failed, there remained an empty seat at the United Nations. The UN kept this seat open, and wouldn't allow for its dissolution. The Order of Things wouldn't allow for the state to cease to exist, even if for all intents and purposes the state had ceased to exist.

When I read Thanas' update, I read it in this lens. The state in Yemen doesn't exist, because it has fallen apart. That doesn't mean that the state of Yemen has ceased to be and I didn't read Thanas' post as implying that, and that is the key point in this debate I think. Yemen, in the existing statist order, still has its sovereignty. Its borders aren't going to go away. Whichever government the community of nations chooses to legitimize is the one that can request outside help if it wants. You'd probably see a large uproar if Saudi Arabia suddenly decided to annex the territory, since that would mean SA no longer respects the statist order of things.

I don't think that Thanas was making an imperialist argument, because he has a point. The state in Yemen was always rather weak, and here we're seeing that is has fallen apart. I don't know much about Yemen to say for certain that it's fallen apart on tribal lines, but it makes sense given the area. I also don't think that Stas is wrong when he says that Yemen is a sovereign state. The world recognizes it as such.

In short, this argument confuses me.

[Thanas]

This is a thread about Saudi Arabia bombing Yemen. Okay, let's say a Sunni coalition built around the Saudis bombing Yemen.

Your explanation seemed to casually dismiss Yemen as a non-state entity.

Actually, what I was saying is that there is a Saudi intervention in tribal squabbles in Yemen. Said squabbles are not uncommon, central authority in Yemen was always week. That does not excuse the Saudis.

I've seen you'd go to great lengths to protect the image of the Western, and especially European, countries.

Yeah, I always have that concern in mind, which is why I post all those fucking stories about the human rights abuses they perpetrate. Your delusions about me do not match reality.

When I read Thanas' update, I read it in this lens. The state in Yemen doesn't exist, because it has fallen apart. That doesn't mean that the state of Yemen has ceased to be and I didn't read Thanas' post as implying that, and that is the key point in this debate I think. Yemen, in the existing statist order, still has its sovereignty. Its borders aren't going to go away. Whichever government the community of nations chooses to legitimize is the one that can request outside help if it wants. You'd probably see a large uproar if Saudi Arabia suddenly decided to annex the territory, since that would mean SA no longer respects the statist order of things.

I don't think that Thanas was making an imperialist argument, because he has a point. The state in Yemen was always rather weak, and here we're seeing that is has fallen apart. I don't know much about Yemen to say for certain that it's fallen apart on tribal lines, but it makes sense given the area. I also don't think that Stas is wrong when he says that Yemen is a sovereign state. The world recognizes it as such.

In short, this argument confuses me.

I think the main confusion is probably because Stas failed to recognize the specific definition of state I was using, meaning referring to a state as a nation that has institutions and control. Which is different from being a sovereign nation. One can have one with the other or both.

[Flagg]

Heh, they aren't even pretending: they are not bombing the great bogeyman, Al Quaeda in Yemen, either. The 'goverment' of Yemen barely controls a few provinces. The only thing Saudis will accomplish is the partitioning of Yemen.

Funny how the US is completely silent on the matter. What happened with the 'we must stand up to dictatorial regimes that attack other nations'?

I don't know how I missed this post... Anyway, I recall just a couple/ few years ago the US was launching a ton of drone strikes in Yemen, presumably against Al Qaeda targets (and anyone unlucky enough to be within a hundred feet because PRECISION!) at the request of the Yemeni President. Hell, America may still be doing that. And I think the US will only actually have an issue if the Saudis went in all "Iraq vs Kuwait" and tried to annex it, which is pretty much something I just can't see the Saudis doing. Mainly because I don't think they want the trouble of having to deal with the issues Yemen is dealing with and they are fully aware that, even if it wouldn't necessarily end with the same result (a massive US led UN coalition kicking them in the balls so hard with a spiked titanium boot so many times everyone loses count to the point where 12 years later the US's and UK's "Coalition of the Intimidated and Bribed Willing" can launch a total invasion with the intent of overthrowing the legitimate government (even if they are assholes, which the Saudis most definitely are to the point of the term being an understatement worthy of a Guinness World Record) with one hand tied behind their backs and the other twirling a cane) but would cause the Saudis too much fucking trouble to be bothered with.

Oh and as a (morbidly/ terrifyingly) funny aside: The Saudis are now saying that if Iran builds a nuke so will they and very quickly (leading me to assume they are either lying douchebags which would surprise me about as much as the sunrise, or they actually have a program similar to the one the Japanese* allegedly have, where a bomb and/ or bombs can be built rather rapidly as they have the knowledge, technology, and ability to produce them but simply choose not to for various reasons) which would really suck for Iraq, Syria, and Jordan as I believe an Iranian-Saudi Arabian cold war would be proxy-fought (well, more proxy fought than they already are ) in those countries should such an event occur. Which leads me to seriously rethink my position on Iran having nukes, despite it virtually guaranteeing all of John McCain's and the rest of the war whores of every political persuasion's wet dreams about a war with Iran having ice-cold water being thrown directly on their fun parts.

*That's what an article in a magazine I read at least 12 years ago said, anyway. And no, as usual I can't find the fucking article because I can't remember where, when, or who published it which pisses me off to a great degree, so take that with a heaping spoonful of salt.