Russian nuclear submarine catches fire (no danger to others)

[Thanas]

According to RT, it is an Oscar II-class and the reactor had been shut down and all weapons removed.

A fire has broken out on a Russian nuclear submarine undergoing repair work at a shipyard in Severodvinsk. The cause of the fire is believed to be related to welding work.

The incident occurred at the Zvezdochka shipyard, in the Arkhangelsk region in northern Russia.

“The fire started in the ninth section of the sub close to the stern," a spokesman for the shipyard, Evgeny Gladyshev, told RIA Novosti. “All the personnel left the submarine and fire brigades are currently dousing the flames.”

The fire has been localized after firefighters decided to submerge the burning submarine in water to put off the flames.

The United Shipbuilding Company said nobody was hurt in the fire.

The Oryol entered service in December 1992. It was transported to the shipyard in November 2013 for a scheduled overhaul, which is to last until 2016.

I'm guessing the scheduled overhaul will now take slightly longer.

[Patroklos]

Hmmmm, I wonder if some yard bird wanted to leave work early.

[Thanas]

They had to flood the boat via the dock to douse the flames.

[SpottedKitty]

The fire has been localized after firefighters decided to submerge the burning submarine in water to put off the flames.

I know it makes perfect sense in context, but the way this is phrased just makes me giggle.

[Vympel]

This is the second time this has happened recently (it happened a few years ago to a Delta IV SSBN in refit - in that case it did extend the refit quite a bit). In this case however I read an article (in Russian) where the shipyard stated the damage was minor and that the repair/refit should still be on time / on budget.

[K. A. Pital]

Rusty Mordor so rusty. I guess the gap between Russia's claims and the real efficiency of their military nowadays must be staggering. Quality control was already going down the shitter when I first left the country six years ago. The degradation of Russia's engineering potential is not easy to reverse. Maybe even impossible.

[Adam Reynolds]

Rusty Mordor so rusty. I guess the gap between Russia's claims and the real efficiency of their military nowadays must be staggering. Quality control was already going down the shitter when I first left the country six years ago. The degradation of Russia's engineering potential is not easy to reverse. Maybe even impossible.

I wonder what would happen if they actually tried to use their military against a proper enemy?

[Elheru Aran]

I wonder what would happen if they actually tried to use their military against a proper enemy?

The parts of their military that are actually expected to see service probably get a reasonable level of maintenance and upkeep. So Army units, some of the more active naval and air units, and that's about it. The rest of the military... ha. There's a big reason why nobody really expects Russia to go hot anytime soon against anybody that's not closer than immediate neighboring countries. Submarines especially are part of this, because people tend to be very paranoid about submarines (for good reason). IIRC the Oscar is an older class, so it's not really much surprise they might not keep it up as well as they should. The shiny new stuff tends to be taken care of more...

[Borgholio]

I wonder what would happen if they actually tried to use their military against a proper enemy?

You mean like their Kirov-class battlecruisers that have all those massive anti-ship missiles sitting in unarmored launch tubes, where one good hit from a Harpoon or a torpedo will make the destruction of the HMS Hood look like a party firecracker? I dunno...the only ships in the Russian fleet I would truly be worried about are their missile submarines. The rest are not aging well from what I've seen.

[Irbis]

Rusty Mordor so rusty. I guess the gap between Russia's claims and the real efficiency of their military nowadays must be staggering. Quality control was already going down the shitter when I first left the country six years ago. The degradation of Russia's engineering potential is not easy to reverse. Maybe even impossible.

I like the schizophreny here. On one hand, you have Central/Eastern European russophobes wailing how Putin has the best special forces in the world, how "green men" are all superhuman NAVY Seals and how Russia will magically invade Poland, on other we have this peculiar brand of bashing going about "rusty Mordor" about to die, spread all over the world. It would be nice if you guys tried to negotiate one stance and decided who is actually right.

Though, how that old quote went? "Russia is never as strong as she looks; Russia is never as weak as she looks." Still quite apt, despite being 200 years old.

And now for some actual news, not clickbait Radio Yerevan: the submarine wasn't "Oscar II", it was more modern project 949AM Antey sub, K-266 Oriel (Eagle). What caught fire was not the sub itself, it was rubber acoustic cladding of the outer hull, and of course there was no danger, as the ship we decommissioned 5 years ago and will be in general rebuilt until at least 2016. Though, yes, it was fuckup that will send a few head rolling and will likely add a few weeks to months of testing minimum to overhaul time.

IIRC the Oscar is an older class, so it's not really much surprise they might not keep it up as well as they should. The shiny new stuff tends to be taken care of more...

Uh, no. They are actually quite new for subs, being post Soviet Union construction. The problem is, though, that everything made in early 90s in Russia was made on the cheap, from often substandard materials, cut corners, and other bad practices. Thus, they might often break and malfunction even with perfectly good maintenance and usage.

K-266 is actually good example of this - it's 949AM as she was supposed to have new propulsion system, sadly due to lack of funds it proved defective and screws designed for it had to be replaced with old type. One that placed excess wear on machinery ruining drive shafts after 10 years of use, necessitating rebuild and replacement with (hopefully this time good) new parts.

This is the second time this has happened recently (it happened a few years ago to a Delta IV SSBN in refit - in that case it did extend the refit quite a bit).

Yes, K-84 Yekaterinburg. The cause was IIRC the same - welding fire caused by incident igniting scaffolding that turned out to be flammable in high temperatures and fire that spread to rubber cover.

You mean like their Kirov-class battlecruisers that have all those massive anti-ship missiles sitting in unarmored launch tubes, where one good hit from a Harpoon or a torpedo will make the destruction of the HMS Hood look like a party firecracker?

Less video games, please?

[Purple]

I wonder what would happen if they actually tried to use their military against a proper enemy?

You mean like their Kirov-class battlecruisers that have all those massive anti-ship missiles sitting in unarmored launch tubes, where one good hit from a Harpoon or a torpedo will make the destruction of the HMS Hood look like a party firecracker? I dunno...the only ships in the Russian fleet I would truly be worried about are their missile submarines. The rest are not aging well from what I've seen.

You will find it hard to locate any ship in the world that is at any spot armored to protect against a Harpoon or a torpedo or even 40mm deck gun these days.

[Patroklos]

US/NATO VLS cells, for instance, are no better armored. Unless you call the vending machines in the hallway between the hull and the VLS cell son a DDG51 armor.

[Borgholio]

Here is the inside of a Kirov:



While I get that the outer hull armor is no different than US warships, look at the amount of armor between the missile tubes. Tell me that's not an accident waiting to happen.

[Purple]

It is an accident waiting to happen. But only so much as with every other VLS system out there. The thin layer of steel you see on the missile tube walls offers about as much protection as the thin layer of steel making up the boxes of western VLS cells. The end result of a hull penetrating hit to either would be equally catastrophic.

[Patroklos]

Holy shit, is that for real. Why the hell are the Russians wasting all that space!

In any case after seeing that photo the western VLS systems have an advantage in that the VLS blocks are in enclosed spaces with deluge systems that should help to keep the other cells from being damaged/exploding and protect the rest of the ship in case of a fire. They will still, however, weather the initial hit no better.

Also its funny you bring up harpoons, because they are not protected at all, not even by hull:

[Borgholio]

Also its funny you bring up harpoons, because they are not protected at all, not even by hull:

True, but the explosion won't be inside the ship so it would be *marginally* better.

[K. A. Pital]

Heh, Irbis, I am not even going to take offense at your silly attempt to troll me. I have been consistent in my view of modern Russia. Besides, I do know what happened to the top engineering talent in Russia. That includes the submarine production and R&D. And no, you cannot persuade me otherwise as I have seen what happened. Submarine engineering was always challenging, even with all the resources of the USSR and no brain drain...

I am not some jester to 'negotiate' my position with anyone, dumbass. It is mine and mine alone.

[Patroklos]

Also its funny you bring up harpoons, because they are not protected at all, not even by hull:

True, but the explosion won't be inside the ship so it would be *marginally* better.

Honestly when you first brought this up even though you said the Kirov I thought you were talking about the externally mounted big missiles the Russians used to be so fond of like on the Slava's:

[Simon_Jester]

I will note that Irbis is contrasting you to Russophobes, not asserting that your own views are inconsistent, if I understand him correctly. The claim is that there is a contradiction between you, who are generally in favor of Russia (though not in favor of Putin), who say that Russia is decaying... and others who hate and fear Russia (no matter who is in charge) and claim that its military is powerful, perfectly organized, and ready to strike at a moment's notice with devastating power.

Which doesn't mean he is not trolling you in some sense.

[Borgholio]

Honestly when you first brought this up even though you said the Kirov I thought you were talking about the externally mounted big missiles the Russians used to be so fond of like on the Slava's:

Ah gotcha. Yeah actually they use similar missiles. The ones on the Kirov about 1 meter shorter than the ones on the Slava, but they weigh a good 5,000 pounds more and are carried internally. The Russians do really like their large missiles.

[Purple]

Honestly when you first brought this up even though you said the Kirov I thought you were talking about the externally mounted big missiles the Russians used to be so fond of like on the Slava's:

Ah gotcha. Yeah actually they use similar missiles. The ones on the Kirov about 1 meter shorter than the ones on the Slava, but they weigh a good 5,000 pounds more and are carried internally. The Russians do really like their large missiles.

It makes sense in context. The Kirov in particular is not like a traditional western missile cruiser. The Soviet Union newer really developed a proper aircraft carrier fleet so they relied on their ship designs to work around that. The Kirov in particular is a huge atomic AA ship. Its purpose is to strike a carrier air wing from the sky and than sink the carrier with missiles whose range equals those aircraft.

[Sidewinder]

Honestly when you first brought this up even though you said the Kirov I thought you were talking about the externally mounted big missiles the Russians used to be so fond of like on the Slava's:

Ah gotcha. Yeah actually they use similar missiles. The ones on the Kirov about 1 meter shorter than the ones on the Slava, but they weigh a good 5,000 pounds more and are carried internally. The Russians do really like their large missiles.

It makes sense in context. The Kirov in particular is not like a traditional western missile cruiser. The Soviet Union newer really developed a proper aircraft carrier fleet so they relied on their ship designs to work around that. The Kirov in particular is a huge atomic AA ship. Its purpose is to strike a carrier air wing from the sky and than sink the carrier with missiles whose range equals those aircraft.

I think you mean "huge atomic ASuW ship," the acronym standing for "anti-surface warfare" (as opposed to ASW, "anti-submarine warfare").

[Purple]

I think you mean "huge atomic ASuW ship," the acronym standing for "anti-surface warfare" (as opposed to ASW, "anti-submarine warfare").

No, I mean huge AA ship. Take a look at its weapon load.
20 x P-700 Long range anti ship missile
14 x SS-N-14 Anti sub missile
96 x S-300F Long range AA missile
128 x 9K95 Point Defense AA missile
40 x SA-N-4 Short range AA missile

So that's a total of 20 anti ship launchers, 14 anti sub launchers and 264 AA launchers. The thing is meant to shoot down carrier air wings. The anti ship and anti sub loadout are an afterthought that exists simply because the Soviets added those to every ship they had, carriers included.

[Irbis]

Holy shit, is that for real. Why the hell are the Russians wasting all that space!

In any case after seeing that photo the western VLS systems have an advantage in that the VLS blocks are in enclosed spaces with deluge systems that should help to keep the other cells from being damaged/exploding and protect the rest of the ship in case of a fire. They will still, however, weather the initial hit no better.

It's because the ship was designed to be rearmed at sea. Its missiles are too big to load them down the hatches like small Western missiles in VLS, so they are loaded down central hatch and distributed to launchers by rail system. This also has advantage of not needing full combat load waiting to be hit or suffer accident all the time, making the system safer.

Of course, this wastes space, but it's not a destroyer - think of it as heavy combatant like carrier, so this hall is equivalent of its 'hangar deck' from which the strikes are launched. You might as well point at all the planes, bombs and fuel stored under the deck on USS Nimitz - and carrier is actually less protected than Kirovs.

Honestly when you first brought this up even though you said the Kirov I thought you were talking about the externally mounted big missiles the Russians used to be so fond of like on the Slava's:

To be honest, I thought so too and was wondering if that's what Borgholio meant

Here is the inside of a Kirov:



While I get that the outer hull armor is no different than US warships, look at the amount of armor between the missile tubes. Tell me that's not an accident waiting to happen.

And here is outside of a Kirov:



Purple circles are quadruple 30 mm anti-missile chainguns. Red circles are short range anti-missile launchers. Blue rectangle is medium-range anti-missile and anti-aircraft system. Moreover, she also has heavy decoy launchers and as centre of a battlegroup is protected by outer anti-air layer of escorts. So, a missile would need to break through 5-6 different layers of defence to reach the ship, to hit exactly where the defensive arm concentration is the heaviest.

Let's suppose it's possible. The catch, though, is that green rectangle houses P-700 Granit missiles. These have about 500–625 km range. Exocet? 70–180 km. So, yeah, good luck with that in wartime conditions.

[Patroklos]

Is is that first picture a Kirov then? That picture has the missiles arranged in a circle, that doesn't appear to be the case in the second.