Oh No! Where's Enlightment?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-21 10:16am

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAPZU48KDD.html

Scattered Resistance, Mass Surrenders as U.S., British Troops Advance Through Southern Iraq

By David Crary
Associated Press Writer

American and British forces advanced Friday through southern Iraq, some racing unimpeded across the desert, others meeting hostile fire. Hundreds of Iraqi soldiers surrendered and U.S. officials said Iraq's command structure appeared to have disintegrated.

The allies reported their first combat casualty, a U.S. Marine with the 1st Expeditionary Force killed in southern Iraq. According to a comrade, the Marine - whose name was withheld - was shot in the stomach while his company was sweeping around a burning oil pumping station.

Twelve more Marines - eight British and four American - died when their helicopter crashed and burned in Kuwait. Officials said the crash was not caused by hostile fire.

Waving Iraqi civilians greeted members of the 1st Marine Division as they entered the town of Safwan. Using winch chains, some of the troops hauled down giant portraits of Saddam overlooking a street.

"We're very happy... Saddam Hussein is a butcher," said a man in the back of a pickup truck, identifying himself only as Abdullah. A woman fell at the feet of the Americans and embraced them, touching their knees.

In western Iraq, U.S. forces seized two airfields, a pivotal first step toward opening up another front in the war.

Hoping the regime might capitulate, U.S. military commanders held back-channel negotiations with Iraqi commanders and refrained from all-out bombardment. Instead, U.S. missiles and bombs struck specific targets - including the main presidential palace in Baghdad and strongholds of the elite Special Republican Guard.

Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Sa'eed al-Sahhaf said one of Saddam Hussein's homes was hit in the bombing, though no one was hurt.

U.S. officials said they had no definitive word on whether the Iraqi leader was caught in the attack, but indicated that medical workers were summoned to a compound in Baghdad after it was hit. The officials said Iraqi forces subsequently seemed cut off from their leadership.

The official Iraqi News Agency said 37 people were injured in the latest strikes on Baghdad, and Iraqi military said four soldiers were killed. There were no figures given on Iraqi losses in ground combat.

On the home front, thousands of American anti-war activists protested, blocking streets, boycotting classes and chaining themselves together. More than 1,500 people were arrested, mostly at a raucous demonstration in San Francisco.

In the war zone, U.S. and British forces moved on a broad front, with infantry racing across the desert in thousands of tanks and trucks, plumes of dust in their wake, and Marines edging cautiously toward strategic oil towns and military outposts, calling in air support to take out snipers. In some cases, units were preceded by special forces teams.

"There are signs of continuing Iraqi desertions and disagreement and division in all levels of the regime," said British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Capt. Al Lockwood, spokesman for British forces, said the U.S.-led attack could reach Baghdad swiftly.

"If I was a betting man, and I'm not, I would say hopefully within the next three or four days," he said.

In western England, American B-52 bombers took off from a British air base. Officials refused to disclose their mission; they would be capable of reaching Iraq in about six hours.

U.S. Marines seized a portion of the main road leading from Kuwait to Basra, suppressing resistance from Iraqi mortars and arms. Officers said the seizure could help speed the takeover of Basra, southern Iraq's largest city.

Overall, resistance to the allies was limited. Within a few hours of crossing into southern Iraq, the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit encountered 200 or more Iraqi troops seeking to surrender.

One group of 40 Iraqis marched down a two-lane road toward the Americans and gave up. They were told to lie face down on the ground, then were searched by Marines.

Members of one Marine platoon, while capturing scores of Iraqi soldiers, tossed hand grenades into bunkers and mud huts to clear them out.

Soldiers from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division also crossed into Iraq and encountered several Iraqi armored personnel carriers, destroying at least three, troops reported by radio. British troops moved on the strategic al-Faw peninsula - Iraq's access point to the Persian Gulf and the site of major oil facilities.

Iraqi troops set fire to 30 of the hundreds of oil wells in the region, British Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon said. Iraq has 1,685 oil wells and exported 2 million barrels daily before the war.

In Washington, the Senate unanimously approved a resolution in support of U.S. forces. The House approved a similar measure early Friday on a 392-11 vote after sometimes angry debate. Some Democrats said the Republican House leadership was forcing them to offer "unequivocal support" of President Bush.

Divisions over the war were stark. In numerous cities across the country, anti-war protesters took to the streets and in some cases were confronted by counter-demonstrators. "Support the U.S. or keep your mouth shut," said one sign in Mississippi.

More than 1,300 people were arrested in San Francisco, and one protester died after falling from the Golden Gate Bridge.

"America is different today," said Jason Mark, a San Francisco activist. "We've just launched an unprovoked, unjust war."

Large anti-war protests also took place in many cities abroad. Demonstrators marched in Manila, Philippines; Beijing; Rome; Berlin; Stockholm, Sweden; and the West Bank. More than 100,000 protesters rallied in Athens.

AP-ES-03-21-03 0900EST

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-03-21 10:20am

200 hundred guys does not count as 'Mass surenders'.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-03-21 10:22am

"More than 1,300 people were arrested in San Francisco, and one protester died after falling from the Golden Gate Bridge. "

Thank you for the joys of Darwin Awards, stupid protester...why couldn't it happen to more of them.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-03-21 10:22am

More than 1,300 people were arrested in San Francisco, and one protester died after falling from the Golden Gate Bridge.

Ouch.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-03-21 10:22am

Stuart Mackey wrote:200 hundred guys does not count as 'Mass surenders'.

and a couple thousand unemployed art history majors does not count as mass protests.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-03-21 10:29am

"Support the U.S. or keep your mouth shut," said one sign in Mississippi.

Does this person not know about free speech, assembly, and petition?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-21 10:36am

Good ol Noam Chomsky on "Support the U.S. or keep your mouth shut" and other moronic 'love it or leave it style' sentiments.

"...That reflects an extremely interesting conception of the state, in fact a fascist conception of the state. It says the state is your master, and if the state does something for you, you have to be nice to them. That's the underlying principle. So the state runs you, you're its slave... Notice how exactly opposite that is to democratic theory. According to democratic theory, you're the master, the state is your servant. The state doesn't give you a grant, the population is giving you a grant. The state's just an instrument. But the concept of democracy is so remote from our conception that we very often tend to fall into straight fascist ideas like that, that the state is some kind of benevolent uncle, ... it's not your representative, and of course it's true, but it's not supposed to be; and therefore if your benevolent uncle happens to give you a piece of candy, it's not nice not to be nice to him back. But it's a strictly fascist conception. That's one of the reasons why fascism would be so easy to institute in the United States. It's deeply rooted in everybody's mind already."

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-21 10:37am

Shep, you shouldn't bother, Enleftenment will never admit he was wrong the Us is always the bad guy.. "I suppose will here that it wasn't fair, we should try and LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD" how many time have you heard that bullshit..

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-03-21 10:42am

Firstly he'll only concentrate on the 8 Brits that American killed in that copter.

aerius wrote:"More than 1,300 people were arrested in San Francisco, and one protester died after falling from the Golden Gate Bridge. "

Ofcourse this is San Francisco so the protestors will say there were 2500 and 1200 were arested.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-21 10:45am

Vympel wrote:Good ol Noam Chomsky on "Support the U.S. or keep your mouth shut" and other moronic 'love it or leave it style' sentiments.
[/b]"

Noam Chomsky is a fucking idiot. Want to know why I kept my mouth
shut during Kosovo, et al, whenever Klintoon went on military misadventures?

It's because I read how Giap and the other high-ranking North Vietnamese
staff were ready to give up after their disastrous defeat in the Tet offensive
of 1968.

And then they saw the massive anti-war protests in America and were
heartened that if they kept on slugging it out with the Americans, sooner
or later, the American's would get tired of the protests back hom and
withdraw.

May every goddamn war protester from the 1960s burn in hell, along
with these hippie remnants from the 60s.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-21 10:50am

OOh I can't believe I missed this:

In the war zone, U.S. and British forces moved on a broad front, with infantry racing across the desert in thousands of tanks and trucks, plumes of dust in their wake, and Marines edging cautiously toward strategic oil towns and military outposts, calling in air support to take out snipers. In some cases, units were preceded by special forces teams.

Now that's a sign of lopsided victory, calling in a F-15 to waste
a sniper

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-21 11:01am

U.S. Marines Rip Down Portraits of Saddam, Iraqis Cheer

SAFWAN, Iraq (AP) - U.S. Marines hauled down giant street portraits of Saddam Hussein in a screeching pop of metal and bolts Friday, telling nervous residents of this southern Iraqi town that "Saddam is done."

Milling crowds of men and boys watched as the Marines attached ropes on the front of their Jeeps to one portrait and then backed up, peeling the Iraqi leader's black-and-white metal image off a frame. Some locals briefly joined Maj. David "Bull" Gurfein in a new cheer.

"Iraqis! Iraqis! Iraqis!" Gurfein yelled, pumping his fist in the air.

More:

A few men and boys ventured out, putting makeshift white flags on their pickup trucks or waving white T-shirts out truck windows.

"Americans very good," Ali Khemy said. "Iraq wants to be free."

Some chanted, "Ameriki! Ameriki!"

Many others in the starving town just patted their stomachs and raised their hands, begging for food.

A man identifying himself only as Abdullah welcomed the arrival of the U.S. troops: "Saddam Hussein is no good. Saddam Hussein a butcher."

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-21 11:09am

aerius wrote:"More than 1,300 people were arrested in San Francisco, and one protester died after falling from the Golden Gate Bridge. "

Maybe he was trying to bunjee off the bridge and forgot to tie himself

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-21 11:12am

MKSheppard wrote: Now that's a sign of lopsided victory, calling in a F-15 to waste
a sniper

I did worse when playing the "Close Combat" game series

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-21 12:24pm

Vympel wrote:Good ol Noam Chomsky on "Support the U.S. or keep your mouth shut" and other moronic 'love it or leave it style' sentiments.

"...That reflects an extremely interesting conception of the state, in fact a fascist conception of the state. It says the state is your master, and if the state does something for you, you have to be nice to them. That's the underlying principle. So the state runs you, you're its slave... Notice how exactly opposite that is to democratic theory. According to democratic theory, you're the master, the state is your servant. The state doesn't give you a grant, the population is giving you a grant. The state's just an instrument. But the concept of democracy is so remote from our conception that we very often tend to fall into straight fascist ideas like that, that the state is some kind of benevolent uncle, ... it's not your representative, and of course it's true, but it's not supposed to be; and therefore if your benevolent uncle happens to give you a piece of candy, it's not nice not to be nice to him back. But it's a strictly fascist conception. That's one of the reasons why fascism would be so easy to institute in the United States. It's deeply rooted in everybody's mind already."

I'm sorry, you typed something, but all I saw was the mindless ramblings of a LINGUISTICS professor.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-03-21 01:13pm

Montcalm wrote:
aerius wrote:"More than 1,300 people were arrested in San Francisco, and one protester died after falling from the Golden Gate Bridge. "
Maybe he was trying to bunjee off the bridge and forgot to tie himself

Hey, if they're going ot do stuff like that in protest, then why worry about them?

As for the protrestors, if they want to end this war, they shojuld tell that to Saddam. It's not our fault he's a madman.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-03-21 01:20pm

Not enough Iraqi blood has been spilled to make Enlightenment happy. He needs more to fill his pen to write another polemic.

And Vympel, please-- Noam Chomsky is a hoser who pretends to have an opinion. I myself support the war but also support the rights of people who oppose it and wish to protest. Although I agree with Shep to an extent, we should bear in mind how the protests can be used to give psychological and morale (nor moral... morale) support to the enemy.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-03-21 01:33pm

Coyote wrote:Not enough Iraqi blood has been spilled to make Enlightenment happy. He needs more to fill his pen to write another polemic.

And Vympel, please-- Noam Chomsky is a hoser who pretends to have an opinion. I myself support the war but also support the rights of people who oppose it and wish to protest. Although I agree with Shep to an extent, we should bear in mind how the protests can be used to give psychological and morale (nor moral... morale) support to the enemy.

You forget Coyote that "Enlightenemnt" is a staunch supporter of Muslim genocide. So perhaps he was secretly hoping for massive casualties to beat off to as he hears the imaginary American jackboots in his head.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-03-21 03:53pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Vympel wrote:Good ol Noam Chomsky on "Support the U.S. or keep your mouth shut" and other moronic 'love it or leave it style' sentiments.
[/b]"
Noam Chomsky is a fucking idiot. Want to know why I kept my mouth
shut during Kosovo, et al, whenever Klintoon went on military misadventures?

It's because I read how Giap and the other high-ranking North Vietnamese
staff were ready to give up after their disastrous defeat in the Tet offensive
of 1968.

And then they saw the massive anti-war protests in America and were
heartened that if they kept on slugging it out with the Americans, sooner
or later, the American's would get tired of the protests back hom and
withdraw.

May every goddamn war protester from the 1960s burn in hell, along
with these hippie remnants from the 60s.

My mother says lots of vietnamese people blame dems for abandoning south vietnam.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-03-21 05:41pm

Guys. Quit the uncalled-for Enlightenment bashing. This thread is being watched now.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-21 09:47pm

Durran Korr wrote:
I'm sorry, you typed something, but all I saw was the mindless ramblings of a LINGUISTICS professor.

Mindless ad hominem bullshit. Fair enough, if you agree with such facist sentiments.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-21 09:48pm

Pu-239 wrote:

My mother says lots of vietnamese people blame dems for abandoning south vietnam.

Exiles (not surprising) or people who still live there?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-21 09:49pm

Coyote wrote: And Vympel, please-- Noam Chomsky is a hoser who pretends to have an opinion.

What does 'pretend to have an opinion mean', really?

I myself support the war but also support the rights of people who oppose it and wish to protest. Although I agree with Shep to an extent, we should bear in mind how the protests can be used to give psychological and morale (nor moral... morale) support to the enemy.

IMO, the 'war protests made use lose Vietnam' theory is right up there with Hitler's 'the jews stabbed us in the back' theory.