‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

[bobalot]

‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’: Disturbing footage shows US police ignoring shooting victim’s protests

Graphic footage has emerged showing US police cursing at a man who had just been fatally wounded by an elderly deputy who accidentally fired his gun instead of his Taser.

Oklahoma man Eric Harris was shot from behind while fleeing from police in Tulsa on April 2.

Deputy Bob Bates, 73, allegedly meant to use his Taser to subdue Harris but instead fired a single round from his sidearm.

Officials have said the incident was an accident and would not be investigated unless the sheriff's office asked them to.

However, new video has now emerged showing how brutally police treated Harris after he was shot.

In the police body-cam video, Harris can be seen fleeing from officers down a street.

Police say he was running after he was caught trying to sell a 9mm pistol and ammunition to undercover officers, however, he was unarmed when shot.

After multiple warnings for Harris to stop and get on the ground, Mr Bates' voice can be heard yelling "Taser!"

A gunshot rings out and immediately Mr Bates can be heard again, saying, "I shot him, I'm sorry".

Harris falls to the ground and is held down by a number of officers.

"He shot me man, I'm losing my breath," Harris says.

"F--- your breath," one officer says.

"You shouldn't have f---ing ran," another yells.

The video shows police at first also refuse to believe that Harris was shot, however, authorities said as soon as they realised, they called in paramedics.

Harris died about an hour later in hospital.

The video is likely to inflame racial tensions in the US, where a recent spate of deaths of unarmed black men at the hands of white police officers has at times resulted in rioting and protests.

Police have said Harris was a "threat" when he was shot, and he had served time in jail for assaulting an officer.

© ninemsn 2015

Source and video here.

The Oklahoma Police Force in action.

[Darth Tanner]

Does America have many 73 year old armed police officers on duty for taking down criminals in planned operations? Seems like a pretty stupid thing to do. Even if you are going to keep 73 year old people on the force, put them behind a desk or some sort of public facing role.

[Dominus Atheos]

I didn't see this, and posted the story in the police abuse thread. Here's what I posted:



That guy died. The cop who shot him? Wasn't a cop:

Robert Bates, the reserve Tulsa County deputy who fatally shot a man who was in a physical altercation with another deputy last week, has donated thousands of dollars worth of items to the Sheriff’s Office since becoming a reserve deputy in 2008.

Bates, 73, accidentally shot Eric Harris on Thursday, according to Maj. Shannon Clark, after Harris — the subject of an undercover gun and ammunition buy by the Sheriff’s Office’s Violent Crimes Task Force — fled from arrest and then fought with a deputy who tackled him. Bates, Clark said, thought he was holding a stun gun when he pulled the trigger.

Bates is not an active member of the task force but donates his hours there as a highly regarded member of the Reserve Deputy Program, Clark said.

...

Bates apparently is not alone as both a donor and reserve deputy. While the Sheriff’s Office has not released its full roster, Clark said other wealthy donors are among the agency’s 130 reserve deputies.

“There are lots of wealthy people in the reserve program,” he said. “Many of them make donations of items. That’s not unusual at all.”

Bates has donated multiple vehicles, guns and stun guns to the Sheriff’s Office since he became a reserve deputy in 2008, Clark said.

...

Before Bates was a reserve deputy, he served one year — from 1964 to 1965 — as a police officer, according to Tulsa police.

http://m.tulsaworld.com/newshomepage1/s ... l?mode=jqm

No charges of course. In the US, it's totally legal for a rich 73 year old to buy his way into a gun and a badge, then accidentally shoot someone. Because 'Merica.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Before you go off on your tangents again, DA, Robert Bates is a retired Tulsa City police officer who spent his entire life in policing, a fact that article neglected, presumably because the author has a bone against reserve deputy programmes.

[Vendetta]

Before you go off on your tangents again, DA, Robert Bates is a retired Tulsa City police officer who spent his entire life in policing, a fact that article neglected, presumably because the author has a bone against reserve deputy programmes.

He was also sufficiently fucking ancient that he got confused whether he was using the deadly firearm or the potentially not deadly taser to stop a man who he wasn't physically capable of otherwise stopping because he was fucking ancient and had no business being armed and empowered by the state to enforce the law.

There's no defence of the Tulsa sherriff's office, they were fucking stupid to let him be out there playing at still being a police officer and the person who signed off on him being able to do so should be out on their ear, as should their supervisors to the nth degree.

[Borgholio]

No charges of course. In the US, it's totally legal for a rich 73 year old to buy his way into a gun and a badge, then accidentally shoot someone. Because 'Merica.

Actually he was just charged with manslaughter. Looks like in this case, there could be justice.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /25702233/

[Dominus Atheos]

Before you go off on your tangents again, DA, Robert Bates is a retired Tulsa City police officer who spent his entire life in policing, a fact that article neglected, presumably because the author has a bone against reserve deputy programmes.

So you didn't actually bother to read the article I posted, did you?

As it says, he was an officer for a year, fifty years ago. If you follow the link, it says his day job is as an insurance salesmen.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Before you go off on your tangents again, DA, Robert Bates is a retired Tulsa City police officer who spent his entire life in policing, a fact that article neglected, presumably because the author has a bone against reserve deputy programmes.

So you didn't actually bother to read the article I posted, did you?

As it says, he was an officer for a year, fifty years ago. If you follow the link, it says his day job is as an insurance salesmen.

Conceded; I was relying on inaccurate information repeated on other forums without checking sources.

Ah, well. He's Now been charged.

[Joun_Lord]

Before you go off on your tangents again, DA, Robert Bates is a retired Tulsa City police officer who spent his entire life in policing, a fact that article neglected, presumably because the author has a bone against reserve deputy programmes.

He was also sufficiently fucking ancient that he got confused whether he was using the deadly firearm or the potentially not deadly taser......

There have been quite a few cases of considerably younger officers, and active duty officers at that, doing the exact same thing. So this tragic fuckup can't be blamed on his age or his reserve status. This sounds like a real problem with policy of how tasers are carried and possibly a lack of training. Someone trained to pull and fire a gun from hours of training will instinctively do so even if in their rational mind they are trying to reach for a taser instead.

And a fuckup sounds like what this was, a officer who accidentally shot someone. What happened after, thats what sticks in my gizzard.

Also this might be a bit of an insensitive question to ask and probably doesn't matter beyond my own curiosity, is Harris white or black? Some pictures he's a little dark but like someone with a tan and other shot on shittieo still images he's considerably darker. I mean, I'm white as fuck and I was probably darker then he when I used to actually go outside long enough to tan and I don't tan very well at all.

[Gandalf]

Also this might be a bit of an insensitive question to ask and probably doesn't matter beyond my own curiosity, is Harris white or black?

He's black.

[Aether]

Actually, I feel bad for Bob Bates. It legitimately sounds like he made a terrible mistake, but the rest of the officers sound like they should be investigated for reckless negligence.

There needs to be a fundamental shift in attitude when it regards the proper use of deadly force. "You shouldn't have ran" and "I was in fear of my life" sounds like a Monty Python sketch.

[Vendetta]

There have been quite a few cases of considerably younger officers, and active duty officers at that, doing the exact same thing. So this tragic fuckup can't be blamed on his age or his reserve status.

Younger officers with a modicum of physical fitness should have been able to pursue, subdue, and arrest the unarmed man who was running away without reaching for any kind of weapon.

Putting a 73 year old man in a situation which may lead to a physical confrontation (an attempted arrest) was a bad fucking plan to start with.

[ArmorPierce]

I think some people are skipping over the fact of why was it necessary to even taser in him? He was already subdued and pinned on the ground by multiple cops.

Originally they were not going to charge him but looks like there was enough noise once the video got out that they had no choice. Honestly, no I don't blame the old man. They shouldn't have given him a gun in the first place.

[Joun_Lord]

There have been quite a few cases of considerably younger officers, and active duty officers at that, doing the exact same thing. So this tragic fuckup can't be blamed on his age or his reserve status.

Younger officers with a modicum of physical fitness should have been able to pursue, subdue, and arrest the unarmed man who was running away without reaching for any kind of weapon.

Putting a 73 year old man in a situation which may lead to a physical confrontation (an attempted arrest) was a bad fucking plan to start with.

I think, and I could be mistaken as I'm known to be at times (I thought Stargate Universe was going to be a good show, I was wrong, I can admit that now), but I think police officers rarely try to get into a rasslin' match with unruly suspects and will use some non-lethal weapon be it a baton, pepper spray, or a taser to elicit compliance.

Some cops could attempt to wrestle a suspect but that leads into semi-legal tactics such as chokeholds to get them to simmer on down now. Other officers wouldn't be able to even if they are physically fit depending on their own body size and that of the suspect. Most women and some men aren't going to have the size or physical strength to wrestle down some 6 foot something dude. Thats to say nothing of out of shape cops and as this case demonstrates older officers.

This probably wouldn't have been much of a problem legally for anyone but the dood who got nabbed by the po-po if the officer had managed to draw his taser instead of his sidearm.

I think some people are skipping over the fact of why was it necessary to even taser in him? He was already subdued and pinned on the ground by multiple cops.

Reread the OP comrade.

In the police body-cam video, Harris can be seen fleeing from officers down a street.

Police say he was running after he was caught trying to sell a 9mm pistol and ammunition to undercover officers, however, he was unarmed when shot.

After multiple warnings for Harris to stop and get on the ground, Mr Bates' voice can be heard yelling "Taser!"

A gunshot rings out and immediately Mr Bates can be heard again, saying, "I shot him, I'm sorry".

Harris falls to the ground and is held down by a number of officers.

[ArmorPierce]

From watching the video it looks to me that he was already on the ground. It's hard to say because the camera was actually looking away for those crucial moments but how else do you account for the fact that he was running and then came to a complete stop and you can see several men standing around him. This is before you hear the gun shots

[Borgholio]

Yeah he was on the ground before you hear the gunshot. Then the camera pans to the right and see the deputy drop the handgun and it's picked up by another officer.

[TheFeniX]

Is that a hammerless Judge revolver in the video? Cylinder looks way too long to be a standard .38, but the video is grainy and the angle is weird. Not the best gun for on officer, but what would I know? Either way, an accidental discharge would be hard with that weapon, so I'm more than inclined to believe his story about mistaking it for a taser. Not that a taser would have been a valid response in that situation either way.

Anyways, guy is down on the ground when he's shot. Judging from the video, the cop catches him and they both end up on their sides, cop rights himself, probably moved on top of the suspect. Knee on the head of a man laying on concrete at :47, after he's been shot. Even firing a taser into that dog pile would have been dangerous.

It's good he's being charged. What he did was reckless and stupid. He killed someone and put the lives of the officers involved in the arrest in danger. Even if he had used his taser, it's still a less-lethal weapon with it's own dangers: you shouldn't be able to use it "just because."

[ArmorPierce]

There have been quite a few cases of considerably younger officers, and active duty officers at that, doing the exact same thing. So this tragic fuckup can't be blamed on his age or his reserve status.

Younger officers with a modicum of physical fitness should have been able to pursue, subdue, and arrest the unarmed man who was running away without reaching for any kind of weapon.

Putting a 73 year old man in a situation which may lead to a physical confrontation (an attempted arrest) was a bad fucking plan to start with.

I think, and I could be mistaken as I'm known to be at times (I thought Stargate Universe was going to be a good show, I was wrong, I can admit that now), but I think police officers rarely try to get into a rasslin' match with unruly suspects and will use some non-lethal weapon be it a baton, pepper spray, or a taser to elicit compliance.

Some cops could attempt to wrestle a suspect but that leads into semi-legal tactics such as chokeholds to get them to simmer on down now. Other officers wouldn't be able to even if they are physically fit depending on their own body size and that of the suspect. Most women and some men aren't going to have the size or physical strength to wrestle down some 6 foot something dude. Thats to say nothing of out of shape cops and as this case demonstrates older officers.

This probably wouldn't have been much of a problem legally for anyone but the dood who got nabbed by the po-po if the officer had managed to draw his taser instead of his sidearm.

I think some people are skipping over the fact of why was it necessary to even taser in him? He was already subdued and pinned on the ground by multiple cops.

Reread the OP comrade.

In the police body-cam video, Harris can be seen fleeing from officers down a street.

Police say he was running after he was caught trying to sell a 9mm pistol and ammunition to undercover officers, however, he was unarmed when shot.

After multiple warnings for Harris to stop and get on the ground, Mr Bates' voice can be heard yelling "Taser!"

A gunshot rings out and immediately Mr Bates can be heard again, saying, "I shot him, I'm sorry".

Harris falls to the ground and is held down by a number of officers.

Yeah I rewatched the video. The written account is wrong or misleading. The suspect was knocked to the ground out of breath with three cops over him. He was struggling but he was out of gas. No reason for taser outside of shit and giggles.

[Joun_Lord]

Yeah I rewatched the video. The written account is wrong or misleading. The suspect was knocked to the ground out of breath with three cops over him. He was struggling but he was out of gas. No reason for taser outside of shit and giggles.

Now on a device that doesn't suck at playing videos worse the I do playing turn based video games, it does look like you are correct and the article is wrong. As was I.........NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! ! ! ! This is Stargate Universe all over again, it had freaking Robert Carlyle and Gerald from Hey Arnold, it had to be good!

Even without him having shot a subdued suspect, just him discharging a weapon in such close proximity to other law enforcements officers seems like a possibly chargeable offense.

I wonder what thought processes were going on to have this guy think it was a good idea to try to tase me bro a suspect dog piled by his fellow coppers, if there was any thought process at all.

[Grumman]

I wonder what thought processes were going on to have this guy think it was a good idea to try to tase me bro a suspect dog piled by his fellow coppers, if there was any thought process at all.

"Just before we got here, this guy had an illegal firearm and ammo. Is he just trying not to get dogpiled, or is he going for a gun? I better taser him just to make sure."

[ArmorPierce]

That's probably the best argument that can be used. They knew he was selling guns so worried he might have a gun on him. Decided to tase him just in case and accidentally shot him.

[Thanas]

Since when is "just in case" a good reason to tase somebody?

"I mean, my neighbour is drunk and yelling at my car, better brain him with my baseball bat just in case he wants to hit my car".

[Grumman]

Since when is "just in case" a good reason to tase somebody?

When he is resisting arrest after committing a firearms offense, and it is therefore reasonable to assume that he may still be armed and may do something stupid like try to shoot his way out.

"I mean, my neighbour is drunk and yelling at my car, better brain him with my baseball bat just in case he wants to hit my car".

Being drunk is not the same as being armed. Yelling at your car is not the same thing as illegally selling weapons to an undercover cop and resisting arrest. Hitting him in the head with a baseball bat is not the same thing as using a taser. And hitting your car is not the same thing as shooting one of the cops trying to restrain him. But apart from that, it's exactly the same. Good job, Thanas.

[Thanas]

When he is resisting arrest after committing a firearms offense, and it is therefore reasonable to assume that he may still be armed and may do something stupid like try to shoot his way out.

The suspect was knocked to the ground out of breath with three cops over him.

Because there is such an epidemic of people who reached for their gun successfully and opened fire while being restrained by three officers .

[Elheru Aran]

Further information: Robert Bates was working as a deputy despite having possibly never taken required training, the results of which may have been falsified.

At least three supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office were transferred after they refused to falsify training records for a reserve deputy now charged in the fatal shooting of a black suspect, according to a newspaper report.

Robert Bates, 73, was charged with second-degree manslaughter in the shooting death of Eric Harris during an April 2 undercover operation after the reserve deputy apparently mistook a service firearm for a Taser.

The Tulsa World reported early Thursday that Bates, a personal friend of the sheriff who donated five patrol cars and other equipment to the department, was given credit for field training he never took and firearms certification he should not have received.

The newspaper quoted multiple anonymous sources in its report but said their claims were backed by department records and statements made by Sheriff Stanley Glanz and Bates himself.

Glanz told a radio station this week that Bates, a fishing buddy, had been certified to use three weapons – including the revolver he used to kill Harris – but he has not been able to find records of those certifications.

The deputy who certified Bates now works for the Secret Service, the sheriff said, but Glanz plans to speak with the former deputy to ensure his friend was actually qualified to use those weapons.

Bates was classified as an “advanced reserve” deputy, which requires completion of 480 hours of the “Field Training Officer” program – but an attorney for Harris’ family said he believes records of that training were falsified and then destroyed.

Bates, a wealthy insurance executive, served as Glanz’s 2012 re-election campaign manager and was named the 2011 reserve deputy of the year.

The sheriff’s office has said Bates joined the reserve deputy force in 2008, but Bates said in a seven-page statement given to investigators that he became an advanced reserve deputy in 2007.

The sheriff’s office released a summary that shows training courses for which Bates had been given credit, but the department has not released documents showing who signed off on the training.

Undersheriff Tim Albin denied that Bates’ training records had been falsified or that supervisors who refused to participate had been transferred to less desirable assignments.

“The training record speaks for itself,” Albin told the newspaper earlier this week, denying any knowledge of training record falsification. “There aren’t any secrets in law enforcement — zero.”

A spokesman for the Tulsa Police Department and a police consultant hired by the county also denied knowledge of concerns over Bates’ training.

The Tulsa World has requested records that show who signed off on the reserve deputy’s training, but an attorney for the sheriff’s office declined to share them – saying the matter was still under investigation.

The cronyism and favoritism being shown is rather appalling. If he actually received the training he was required to take, it should be easily demonstrated. Open a file cabinet, grab his records, check the training section. Done.

And "There aren't any secrets in law enforcement"? Please.