Wal-Mart suddenly closed 5 stores and laid off thousands of workers and no one knows why
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Wal-Mart suddenly closed five stores in four states Monday for alleged plumbing problems.
The closures could last up to six months and affect roughly 2,200 workers in Texas, California, Oklahoma and Florida, CNN Money reports.
Wal-Mart employees say they were completely blindsided by the news, having been notified only a couple hours before the stores closed at 7 p.m. Monday.
"Everybody just panicked and started crying," Venanzi Luna, a manager at a Pico Rivera, California store, told CNN Money.
All workers will recieve paid leave for two months. After that, full-time workers could become eligible for severance, according to CNN Money. But part-time workers will be on their own.
Local officials and employees have questioned Wal-Mart's reasoning for the closures.
According to ABC News, "no plumbing permits have been pulled in any of the five cities where the stores were suddenly closed for at least six months."
A city official in Pico Rivera, California confirmed to CBS Los Angeles that the city has not recieved any permit requests for building repairs.
In Midland, Texas, where another store was closed, a city official told ABC News that his plumbing inspector was turned away when he visited the store and offered to help secure construction permits.
We reached out to Wal-Mart for comment and will update when we hear back.
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A spokesman told Consumerist that Wal-Mart had not secured permits "because we have yet to know the full extent of the work that needs to be done. We may also have to do additional upgrades that may require additional permits."
Some employees believe that the stores were closed because of worker protests for higher pay.
Employees of the the Pico Rivera store were among the first to hold Black Friday protests in 2012.
"This is the first store that went on strike," an employee told CBS Los Angeles. "This is the first store in demanding changes for Walmart."
Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
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Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
This isn't the first time they pulled this kind of thing.Zaune wrote:If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Good luck proving it. And even if you do, good luck getting a big enough fine to make Walmart give a fuck. Without being able to directly go after the leadership of a company penalties for breaking the law can only mean so much. Walmart is big enough that no realistic fine will actually hurt them enough to work as a deterrent.Zaune wrote:If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
The above list reads like 'right to work' states. So, very much legal.Zaune wrote:If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
EU is now investigating Google for similar stuff and potential penalty for that is 20% of their yearly proceeds. Walmart would feel that, but good luck passing such Commie law in USA, hell, soon TTIP can kill possibility of this happening in EU tooNapoleon the Clown wrote:Walmart is big enough that no realistic fine will actually hurt them enough to work as a deterrent.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
This corporate HQ is now the ultimate power in American retail. Fear will keep the local stores in line.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
I'm skeptical about how long a union would last, either. There was a Walmart up in Saskatchewan that unionized - and then voted overwhelmingly to decertify a few years later, because negotiating a contract with Walmart was next to impossible (as with the Quebec Walmart).
It definitely sounds like retaliation, especially if they've being evasive about the plumbing problem. The Pico Rivera store had a particularly militant OUR Walmart group, one with more than a handful of employees in it. If they decide to close the stores permanently then I don't think the NLRB or courts could do anything except fine them (or force them to settle privately with the workers).
I just don't think you can unionize discount retail like that, not without a New Deal-esque level of legal permissibility and official support (which would allow the unionization of Walmart and its competitors in a short period of time). The margins are too low, so they fight like hell to resist unionization, refuse to negotiate contracts once the vote is in, and shut down stores if necessary to avoid it. You'd be better off trying to use referendum and municipal government to pass higher minimum wage laws as well as other favorable labor rules, such as Unfair Dismissal requirements.
It definitely sounds like retaliation, especially if they've being evasive about the plumbing problem. The Pico Rivera store had a particularly militant OUR Walmart group, one with more than a handful of employees in it. If they decide to close the stores permanently then I don't think the NLRB or courts could do anything except fine them (or force them to settle privately with the workers).
I just don't think you can unionize discount retail like that, not without a New Deal-esque level of legal permissibility and official support (which would allow the unionization of Walmart and its competitors in a short period of time). The margins are too low, so they fight like hell to resist unionization, refuse to negotiate contracts once the vote is in, and shut down stores if necessary to avoid it. You'd be better off trying to use referendum and municipal government to pass higher minimum wage laws as well as other favorable labor rules, such as Unfair Dismissal requirements.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate.Starglider wrote:This corporate HQ is now the ultimate power in American retail. Fear will keep the local stores in line.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
You are overstating what Right to Work laws mean. No, it is illegal in the US to retaliate against attempts to unionize. Right to Work means that workers can't be required to join a union.Irbis wrote:The above list reads like 'right to work' states. So, very much legal.Zaune wrote:If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Right to work can sometimes go one step further and include the right to continue working even if the majority of your union votes to go on strike.Terralthra wrote:You are overstating what Right to Work laws mean. No, it is illegal in the US to retaliate against attempts to unionize. Right to Work means that workers can't be required to join a union.Irbis wrote:The above list reads like 'right to work' states. So, very much legal.Zaune wrote:If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
EDIT: never mind, that's accomplished by choosing not to be in the union in the first place.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
I think they're actually more insidious than a straight-up restriction on collective bargaining, or the like. It's almost designed to destroy unions from free-riding, since workers can enjoy the perks of a union-negotiated contract and protections without paying anything for it. Republicans love that shit, hollowing out laws and rules while leaving them on the books.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Call me cynical but people making Right to Work laws usually pass extra guarantees ensuring your attempts to strike at union remain unpunished, at least veiled, not in-your-face ones. Like, say, inventing plumbing problem.Terralthra wrote:You are overstating what Right to Work laws mean. No, it is illegal in the US to retaliate against attempts to unionize. Right to Work means that workers can't be required to join a union.
Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
True, but it's not like it'd be hard to disprove. I sincerely doubt that Wal-Mart's branch managers get good enough benefits packages that they'd cover for Head Office to the point of lying on oath.Irbis wrote:Call me cynical but people making Right to Work laws usually pass extra guarantees ensuring your attempts to strike at union remain unpunished, at least veiled, not in-your-face ones. Like, say, inventing plumbing problem.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Depends on the jurisdiction. In some areas workers have to pay union dues even if they choose not to belong in the union as they (usually) benefit directly from the union's negotiated contract.Guardsman Bass wrote:I think they're actually more insidious than a straight-up restriction on collective bargaining, or the like. It's almost designed to destroy unions from free-riding, since workers can enjoy the perks of a union-negotiated contract and protections without paying anything for it. Republicans love that shit, hollowing out laws and rules while leaving them on the books.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
I understand why libertarians support right-to-work, that's perfectly consistent with their ideology, but there's always been a bit of a shameful love for capitalism in their ideology at the exclusion of workers, which is where the anti-freedom tendency to oppose card check seems to come from. One would imagine in a perfectly libertarian system that banning certain types of organizing a union should be as illegal as forcing people to be part of a union. Theoretically anyway a union should have the right to demonstrate its superior performance in obtaining a better deal for workers in a libertarian economy; it shouldn't be something limited to workers, either, but something that anyone could join -- an organization that in exchange for dues arranges the supply of labour on terms acceptable to its members. But I've always found Libertarians to believe unions would simply cease to exist, when one imagines really that in the hypothetical libertarian state, a powerful block of labour could quickly corner the market on certain skills due to its performance at obtaining better contracts.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Yes, but you have to prove it. And it will take years to go through the court.Zaune wrote:If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
Meanwhile, the former Wal-Mart workers will need to find new jobs.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Even in a right-to-work state the Federal labor laws trump state law, and it's not legal to retaliate against workers wanting to form a union. "Right-to-work" is not quite carte blanche, there are protected groups.Irbis wrote:The above list reads like 'right to work' states. So, very much legal.Zaune wrote:If it's actually true, isn't retaliating against workers who are working on getting unionised extremely illegal under federal labour law?
What that means in practice is that a company has to get creative on giving a reason for firing. That's why even in right-to-work states the standard practice is to document the reason for firing and try to have something to back it up, even though in theory the employer can get just "get the fuck out of here" and not give a reason. It's protection against lawsuits.
So... "plumbing" works as an excuse to close a store, although if that is the case Wal-Mart seems to be quite clumsy going about it. I mean, c'mon, they couldn't engineer a bit of raw sewage spill or something?
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
It's hard to be a libertarian at all, if one doesn't have a deep-down believe that big private profit-making enterprises won't on some level protect you. If you do harbor that belief, you don't think unions are necessary.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I understand why libertarians support right-to-work, that's perfectly consistent with their ideology, but there's always been a bit of a shameful love for capitalism in their ideology at the exclusion of workers, which is where the anti-freedom tendency to oppose card check seems to come from. One would imagine in a perfectly libertarian system that banning certain types of organizing a union should be as illegal as forcing people to be part of a union. Theoretically anyway a union should have the right to demonstrate its superior performance in obtaining a better deal for workers in a libertarian economy; it shouldn't be something limited to workers, either, but something that anyone could join -- an organization that in exchange for dues arranges the supply of labour on terms acceptable to its members. But I've always found Libertarians to believe unions would simply cease to exist, when one imagines really that in the hypothetical libertarian state, a powerful block of labour could quickly corner the market on certain skills due to its performance at obtaining better contracts.
The fundamental mistake there is thinking of corporations as humans. They're not- they're alien hive minds with a totally different incentive structure. Mistaking them for fellow humans who can be greated and treated as such is nearly as dangerous as committing the same error with a silverback gorilla- or worse yet, a lion or a shark.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
I can't think of any libertarians who have that belief. Or rather, the ones I know are realistic and say that the amount of 'protection' granted is proportion to the value generation and replacement cost of the employee, so only a small fraction of 'alphas' would get really good benefits.Simon_Jester wrote:It's hard to be a libertarian at all, if one doesn't have a deep-down believe that big private profit-making enterprises won't on some level protect you.
Libertarians tend to believe that (a) such 'protection' is unnecessary, with prudent financial planning and (b) if large companies are offering a bad deal to employees, they will all leave in favour of small companies and (if pushed) co-operatives, which will be more viable without crushing government regulation. They do have a point in that the number of small companies in the US is declining fast, although how much of that is due to ever-increasing regulation and how much is due to structural changes in the economy (technology reducing diseconomies of scale and increasing economies of scale) is unknown.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
And hate leads to shopping sprees and fast food. So all good.Zaune wrote:Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate.Starglider wrote:This corporate HQ is now the ultimate power in American retail. Fear will keep the local stores in line.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
The ironic thing being that internet driven organization of labour could be stupidly powerful. Imagine if you got every single electrician in the country to secretly join a union, not illegal as you have freedom of association. Then one day they all gave notice and quit their jobs. Every single electrician in the entire country. The union they secretly joined now says it will supply electrician labour; it's the legal bonded agent of every electrician.
If only a single company breaks ranks and hires them, all the rest will be forced to do so or go out of business. The labour disruption will be too great for anyone to find alternatives too. You won't need 100% compliance either; 50% would be enough to force most companies needing electricians to shut down.
This is of course illegal under current labour market regulation, because otherwise the IWW might have already done it. But it would not be illegal in a libertarian economy. The solution of the truly radical libertarians of course is to allow making contracts which will force workers to abandon fundamental inalienable rights to freedom that they themselves champion -- essentially to legalize contractual slavery. This shows their moral bankruptcy and, anyway, makes armed conflict in society much more likely. If you can't get a job without becoming a contract slave, the Donbass solution to your economic problems sounds like an eminently reasonable one.
So in the most likely form of libertarianism, what you'd really have is a rapid consolidation of industry -- and labour. This is why libertarianism has enormous problems being implemented; in its idealized form it would probably lead to improvements over the current system, because conservative crony capitalism uses the law to disadvantage workers. We'd quickly be reduced to massive trade guilds negotiating with massive merged megacorps if the internet age had a totally unregulated economy. But this would be worse off than the current system for companies, and contain enormous uncertainty for workers alike, which is why libertarianism can't gain mainstream traction -- it's just being used as a tool to make crony capitalism worse (i.e. 'better' for those on top).
If only a single company breaks ranks and hires them, all the rest will be forced to do so or go out of business. The labour disruption will be too great for anyone to find alternatives too. You won't need 100% compliance either; 50% would be enough to force most companies needing electricians to shut down.
This is of course illegal under current labour market regulation, because otherwise the IWW might have already done it. But it would not be illegal in a libertarian economy. The solution of the truly radical libertarians of course is to allow making contracts which will force workers to abandon fundamental inalienable rights to freedom that they themselves champion -- essentially to legalize contractual slavery. This shows their moral bankruptcy and, anyway, makes armed conflict in society much more likely. If you can't get a job without becoming a contract slave, the Donbass solution to your economic problems sounds like an eminently reasonable one.
So in the most likely form of libertarianism, what you'd really have is a rapid consolidation of industry -- and labour. This is why libertarianism has enormous problems being implemented; in its idealized form it would probably lead to improvements over the current system, because conservative crony capitalism uses the law to disadvantage workers. We'd quickly be reduced to massive trade guilds negotiating with massive merged megacorps if the internet age had a totally unregulated economy. But this would be worse off than the current system for companies, and contain enormous uncertainty for workers alike, which is why libertarianism can't gain mainstream traction -- it's just being used as a tool to make crony capitalism worse (i.e. 'better' for those on top).
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Maybe if Publix one day expands into those regions, these guys will just flock over to Publix...
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
I think I need to rephrase; what I said was literally inaccurate.Starglider wrote:I can't think of any libertarians who have that belief. Or rather, the ones I know are realistic and say that the amount of 'protection' granted is proportion to the value generation and replacement cost of the employee, so only a small fraction of 'alphas' would get really good benefits.Simon_Jester wrote:It's hard to be a libertarian at all, if one doesn't have a deep-down believe that big private profit-making enterprises won't on some level protect you.
Libertarians tend to believe that (a) such 'protection' is unnecessary, with prudent financial planning and (b) if large companies are offering a bad deal to employees, they will all leave in favour of small companies and (if pushed) co-operatives, which will be more viable without crushing government regulation.
The 'protection' I mean may not take the form of any one profit-making enterprise saving you from economic (or physical) harm. It's the belief that if we leave all the decision-making up to these enterprises, things will still somehow "turn out okay." That there is just plain no need for institutional checks on their authority because this is the one human institution that doesn't go bad, or if it does go bad will automatically self-correct because [insert misapplication of something logically equivalent to the efficient market hypothesis here].
Without that, well... I honestly have a hard time fathoming how one could be a libertarian without also being a sadist.
Plus, big companies are better at regulatory capture than business associations of smaller ones, which of course ties into creating regulation that is effectively a regressive tax when measured as a function of how rich your business is.They do have a point in that the number of small companies in the US is declining fast, although how much of that is due to ever-increasing regulation and how much is due to structural changes in the economy (technology reducing diseconomies of scale and increasing economies of scale) is unknown.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
Snopes has a round-up of this and other conspiracy theories regarding the 5 closing Walmarts:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspira ... osures.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspira ... osures.asp
Also something you all apparently missed from the OP:WalMart looms large in the American landscape — not just as the operator of a ubiquitous chain of retail discount stores that encompasses over 4,500 outlets across the U.S., or as the economic behemoth that is both the world's largest company (by revenue) and the world's biggest private employer. No, WalMart also looms large as a shadowy behind-the-scenes force, a willing collaborator in furthering furtive government plots through actions
such as transporting signs announcing the upcoming imposition of martial law on WalMart trucks, allowing federal immigration officials free rein to enter WalMart stores and arrest anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant, and secretly funding the legal defense of a white police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager.
It's no wonder, then, that rumors began to swirl in April 2015 when several WalMart stores around the U.S. were abruptly closed due what WalMart claimed were "plumbing problems": WalMarts in Pico Rivera, California, Livingston, Texas, Midland, Texas, Brandon, Florida, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, all suddenly closed their doors, with WalMart corporate announcing that some of those outlets would be shuttered for six months or more.
Several aspects of these closures struck WalMart employees and shoppers as implausible. How was it that several stores in widely dispersed areas of the U.S. with nothing in common all needed to be shut down simultaneously in order to address "plumbing problems"? Why were all these stores closed with barely more than a few hours' notice to WalMart customers and workers? Why should rectifying plumbing issues require that these stores be closed for upwards of six months? Why the seeming lack of required city work permits and marked septic or plumbing trucks at the affected locations? In the absence of more satisfying explanations, skeptical onlookers developed numerous conspiracy theories about the "real" reasons behind the closures:
The closures were a form of "union-busting" activity intended to get rid workers who were publicly critical of WalMart's labor practices, such as employees of the Pico Rivera store. However, this theory doesn't account for why several other WalMart stores not particularly known as hotbeds of labor activism were also shuttered.
The closures are linked to the U.S. Army's Jade Helm military exercise scheduled for the summer of 2015 (which involves soldiers trying to operate undetected amongst civilian populations in areas where residents will be advised to report any suspicious activity), the imposition of martial law, and the construction of so-called "FEMA Domes" across Texas. This theory doesn't account for why WalMart stores in states far outside the geographic range of the Jade Helm exercises (e.g., Florida, Oklahoma) should also be closed.
The affected stores received radioactive food shipments from the Fukushima region of Japan (the site of the a nuclear power plant that melted down after a massive 8.9 earthquake hit that country in March 2011) and are closed for necessary decontamination efforts. This theory doesn't account for why only five geographically dispersed WalMarts out of the thousands of U.S. stores would have been so affected — are these five WalMart stores unique in importing food products from Japan?
WalMart violated local and federal building codes in erecting their stores and needs a cover story to explain closures required to furtively remove dangerous construction materials such as asbestos. But why would only five WalMarts out of thousands have been built with code-violating materials? And why risk calling attention to the issue by shutting them all down simultaneously?
WalMart closed the stores in order to avoid having to pay out damages for some (unspecified form of) lawsuits. This doesn't make much legal sense, as closing particular stores wouldn't protect the WalMart corporation from lawsuits involving them, businesses typically carry liability insurance to cover such contingencies, and the financial losses the chain would suffer from closing down multiple stores for several months each would likely be costlier than anything but a very large lawsuit.
The closed WalMart stores are being converted into giant entrance facilities for a network of underground tunnels that the U.S. military will use to link "deep underground military bases" (DUMBS) and secretly transport troops across the U.S. But why risk public exposure by building all those entrances in existing WalMart stores when the federal government owns plenty of land all over the country? And unless the military only intends to move troops to and from a handful of states, they'll need other entrances (and exits), so where are are those other entrances going to be located, and how will the military cover their construction? For that matter, how is this massive underground tunnel complex across the U.S. going to be built in the first place?
The closed WalMart stores will be used as "food distribution centers" and housing for "invading troops from China, here to disarm Americans." Doesn't seem likely Chinese ground troops can disarm the entirety of America while being housed and fed in just four states out of fifty.
Something involving lots and lots of helicopters that allegedly "flew to one of the mysteriously closed Walmart stores in Texas." This according to one anonymous source in Spring, Texas, who apparently couldn't identify whether that store was the one in Livingston or Midland (even though those cities are over 400 miles apart).
As unsatisfying as it may be, for now the most plausible theory from this bunch is that the closed WalMart stores all had really bad plumbing problems.
If the stores reused blueprints or sourced the pipes/something from the same supplier, it's entirely possible that these 5 stores, and only these 5 stores, could actually have plumbing problems.All workers will recieve paid leave for two months. After that, full-time workers could become eligible for severance, according to CNN Money. But part-time workers will be on their own.
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Re: Wal Mart closes 5 stores due to 'plumbing'
I tend to think the libertarian reaction (aside from class hostility) would be skepticism that the One Big Union could hold itself together better than corporate monopolies. If it tried to negotiate significantly higher wages, there'd be a constant risk of workers (and companies) arbitraging the difference by defecting from the union. That's why a lot of strikes ended up relying on varying degrees of coercion - sit-downs in the factory flow to obstruct its operation, blockades, picket barriers, attacks on scabs - in order to keep people from defecting and scabbing. They'd have to heavily use some of the contract-bondage stuff as well, and hope for generous courts. Stuff like barring any union member from contractually working on projects with non-union members, or long non-compete agreements to not work with non-unionized firms.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The ironic thing being that internet driven organization of labour could be stupidly powerful. Imagine if you got every single electrician in the country to secretly join a union, not illegal as you have freedom of association. Then one day they all gave notice and quit their jobs. Every single electrician in the entire country. The union they secretly joined now says it will supply electrician labour; it's the legal bonded agent of every electrician.
If only a single company breaks ranks and hires them, all the rest will be forced to do so or go out of business. The labour disruption will be too great for anyone to find alternatives too. You won't need 100% compliance either; 50% would be enough to force most companies needing electricians to shut down.
There's a "churn" element to the political side of that. The idea is that if you can blunt "factions" - companies, special interest groups, labor unions - from co-opting the regulatory process to protect their own interests, the churn of the marketplace will tend to undermine the economic and political power of incumbents over time. Old-Time Billionaires will get supplanted by New-Time Billionaires, old firms devoured by new ones, and so forth.Starglider wrote:Libertarians tend to believe that (a) such 'protection' is unnecessary, with prudent financial planning and (b) if large companies are offering a bad deal to employees, they will all leave in favour of small companies and (if pushed) co-operatives, which will be more viable without crushing government regulation. They do have a point in that the number of small companies in the US is declining fast, although how much of that is due to ever-increasing regulation and how much is due to structural changes in the economy (technology reducing diseconomies of scale and increasing economies of scale) is unknown.
Of course that churn can be pretty brutal, especially for the larger group of poorer people. The libertarian response I've seen is either some type of hand-waving towards Mutual Aid Societies and private charity (which did exist before the 1930s in the US, although they were bad at blunting the impact of poverty even in good times), or the use of "universalist" policies that don't specifically create special interests (like a basic income stipend).
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-Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood