Skimmer and Stas Bush

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-21 11:26pm

If Iraq tried to assassinate Bush Sr, then why war is now, when Iraq is nonbelligerent?
See, USA killed LOTS of civilians in 1945. For such a crime, death is the suitable penalty. But none attacked neither the USA, nor it's government.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-21 11:28pm

Howedar
Neither Kuwait nor Iran suffered from Iraq agression. No crime commited. Nothing to fight for. Agression: unreasoned and illegal.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-21 11:34pm

Stas Bush wrote:Howedar
Neither Kuwait nor Iran suffered from Iraq agression. No crime commited. Nothing to fight for. Agression: unreasoned and illegal.

WTF? Explain the 1980-88 Iran Iraq War, which was started by Iraq and killed a million people, and the Gulf war in 1991, started by Iraq invading Kuwait and resuting in massive damage to the country.

How the fuck is that not suffering from Iraqi agression? Wait I'd forgotten, your a troll.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-21 11:35pm

Wait a moment. Are you seriously telling me that Iraqi military forces did not invade Iran in the early 1980s, and Kuwait in 1990?

Or are you saying that invading these two sovereign states were not acts of Iraqi aggression?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-21 11:38pm

while this guy killed thousands of his challengers in brutal ways.

was followed by

What the fuck? Where did you get that lie from? Saddam is sitting still in Iraq, attacking no one. You were attackers, not him.

Stas, even before the firs tPersian Gulf War Saddam and the Baath party have been toturing political opposition and opressing people. People have been covered in acid and burned to death, women hung by their hair until it was torn from their scalps. Women raped in front of their families by partymembers and soldiers, Kurdish minorites in the north we chemically gassed. Even minorites in the south THAT HAPPEN TO BE MUSLIM were persecuted and killed (hence the southern no fly zone)

Saddam has had prisons full of political prisoners executed in assembly line fashion in order to make room for more prisoners. People were beaten, remived from their cells, and executed via bullet to the head. He and his regime openly threaten American civilians and hreaten to use any meansnecessary to kill civilians. Saddam would like nothing more than to watch as noncombatants of his long standing feud die. While maybe the president wants to fight for reasons the rest of the public doesn't wish to fight for, the simple fact is he is a murder and has threatened to kill American citizens,. For that reason alone we should be flying cruise missles into their country.

Now you go and defend Russia at every corner, which is understandable. But your nation's intentions in Chechnya are subject to the same sort of scrutiny as ours in Iraq. If the Chechens were Arabic or if they had oil then you would be seeing the same sort of criticisms.

What you overlook is that Russian soldiers, who unfortunately rarely get paid it seems, were allowed to loot innocent civilians in Chechnya and probably they still do. Taking whatever they want as payment for services rendered it seems.

Russia is fortunate that the UN was formed when it was, France as well. Those two nations were lucky enough that the US and England kicked a royal amount of ass in WWII and that they were able to edge their way in on a piece of the victory spoils. Now they have Veto power in a matter that doesn't even concern them.

Drone plane? This is ridiculous. Try attacking a schoolboy making a "drone plane" of the same sort.

Gee I dunno Predator drones kicked a lot of ass in Afghanistan, it stands to reason that similar vehicles could be just as dangeorus if not more dangerous by giving them the ability to disperse chem/bio weaponry. A schoolboy might be able to throw rocks at the plane, but even then the plane lets loose its payload and then sudenly hes a frothing mess of disease on the ground. Its that sort of stuff everyone needs to be concerned about. You should as well, seeing as how your Chechen enemies derive support from Al Qaeda.

Another lie. If the Iraq HAD WMD, US would have NEVER attacked it (I think that probably US became more humanist since Hiroshima). It's afraid to attack North Korea, isn't it? Oh, the Axis of the World's evil? Korea? Iraq? These are world-recognised independent states. They are nonbelligerent and non-agressive, unlike the US

Iraq is DEVELOPING WMDs and Kore has the ability. Would you rather we let Iraq go and have them fully? Were stopping a problem before it starts. this way we don't provoke a war where South Korea and Japan are put in potential danger. If and When we go after Korea it will not be without a lot more international support han we have for this war. Also, North Korea is in a pitiful state. within a few years famine and other problems will begin to break the country. There is also a much better chance for peace in NK.

We can't just wait out for Saddam to die either, in korea once Kim Jong Il dies then there is a chance the comunist government will begin to crumble. Saddam has heirs in the guise of his two sons with are supported by the baath party. It is said that Qusay is equally as ruthless as his father if not more so. Uday however, is a lunatic who is a known rapist and murderer.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-21 11:40pm

I'm talking about the present time, if you haven't noticed. Iraq was already kicked in 1991. Now, since 1991, Iraq attacks no one, because he has nothing to attack with, it is forced to live under economical blockade. It's only source of life is oil.
For 80th and 90th already passed, as did numerous other wars. America commited war crimes, yet she never answered for them. And no one asks.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-03-21 11:41pm

Stas Bush wrote:Howedar
Neither Kuwait nor Iran suffered from Iraq agression. No crime commited. Nothing to fight for. Agression: unreasoned and illegal.

Holy Christ, your not even on the same plane of reality are you Stas?

As Skimmer noted , Iran-Iraq War 1980-88 , and that whole other fracas in the Gulf, was in 1991 if I remember, OH YEAH, Hussein INVADED Kuwait!

But that doesnt matter does it Stas, that all ancient history right? Im sure the Saddam of today would never condone such actions, it must have been an evil American clone from the future who did all thoes nasty foul things to both his neighbors and his own people(sarcasm)

Go back to your bottle of cheap vodka ya fucktard troll.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-03-21 11:50pm

Sokar wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:Howedar
Neither Kuwait nor Iran suffered from Iraq agression. No crime commited. Nothing to fight for. Agression: unreasoned and illegal.
Holy Christ, your not even on the same plane of reality are you Stas?

As Skimmer noted , Iran-Iraq War 1980-88 , and that whole other fracas in the Gulf, was in 1991 if I remember, OH YEAH, Hussein INVADED Kuwait!

But that doesnt matter does it Stas, that all ancient history right? Im sure the Saddam of today would never condone such actions, it must have been an evil American clone from the future who did all thoes nasty foul things to both his neighbors and his own people(sarcasm)

Go back to your bottle of cheap vodka ya fucktard troll.

Didn't you know, Saddam was some American smuck, that the super secret CIA found and put into Iraq as a excuse to rattle our saber from time to time.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-21 11:50pm

Stas Bush wrote:I'm talking about the present time, if you haven't noticed. Iraq was already kicked in 1991. Now, since 1991, Iraq attacks no one, because he has nothing to attack with, it is forced to live under economical blockade. It's only source of life is oil.
For 80th and 90th already passed, as did numerous other wars. America commited war crimes, yet she never answered for them. And no one asks.

Excuse me? RIght after the Gulf war was when Saddam began purging the northern and southern areas of his country. Hence the establishment of No Fly Zones. I cant remember all of the countless times that Planes enforcing the No Fly Zone have fired at by Iraqi anti aircraft fire. That is an AGRESSIVE ACT!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-21 11:51pm

Stas Bush wrote:I'm talking about the present time, if you haven't noticed. Iraq was already kicked in 1991. Now, since 1991, Iraq attacks no one, because he has nothing to attack with, it is forced to live under economical blockade. It's only source of life is oil.
For 80th and 90th already passed, as did numerous other wars. America commited war crimes, yet she never answered for them. And no one asks.

Defended cities are subject to bombardment under the laws of WW2 and today. Name a declared open city America attacked.

iraq has nothing to attack with? Yes, I suppose the weapons used for 100 engaements in two months against patrol aircraft where all fake, and those missiles that Iraq fired into Kuwait dont exist?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-21 11:52pm

So you're fighting with Iraq for past crimes? Well, well. I'd find it rather unpleasant to say, but many of the countries have commited war crimes, and America is one of them.

Now you go and defend Russia at every corner, which is understandable.

Well, I don't have much love for it, but it's my second homeland.

were allowed to loot innocent civilians in Chechnya and probably they still do

It's a lie, because I know soldiers from Chechnya face-to-face.

Those two nations were lucky enough that the US and England kicked a royal amount of ass in WWII

What? REMEMBER STALINGRAD! You're thinking USSR didn't win the WAR? WOW!!! Now I think it's time to defend Russia seriously. The Soviets did ALL the dirty job. The Allies were so (silent?) that they opened the second front only in 1944!

You should as well, seeing as how your Chechen enemies derive support from Al Qaeda.

Well, the US tried to kick Al Quaeda or Osama Bin Laden. And? Nothing.

Iraq is DEVELOPING WMDs and Kore has the ability.

DEVELOPING? All the ever near to WMD tech found in Iraq were outdated, left from previous time. How can it be DEVELOPING WMD?
And Korea already HAS WMD, as it proved so. So why don't you kick the stronger one?

Also, my suggestion is, that when and if USA will attack NK, China and Russia will be against and may even take part in the war. WWIII can break out. Because Russians have interest on the far east. So do Chinese.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-03-21 11:57pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:I'm talking about the present time, if you haven't noticed. Iraq was already kicked in 1991. Now, since 1991, Iraq attacks no one, because he has nothing to attack with, it is forced to live under economical blockade. It's only source of life is oil.
For 80th and 90th already passed, as did numerous other wars. America commited war crimes, yet she never answered for them. And no one asks.
Excuse me? RIght after the Gulf war was when Saddam began purging the northern and southern areas of his country. Hence the establishment of No Fly Zones.

Because President George Herbert Walker Bush urged the Kurds and Shi'ites to rebel against Hussein, saying we would support an overthrow of the Ba'ath regime. Bush then withdrew his support, fearing the Shi'ites would ally with Iran. The "purging" was of rebellious elements within Iraq, very similar to the American Civil War.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-21 11:58pm

Defended cities are subject to bombardment under the laws of WW2 and today.

Yeah. Japan was utterly defeated, yet wonderful bombs were down on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No one protested - everyone knew they could be the next.
The LAWS of WWII? You assume the war where all laws, social, political and moral, were broken by nearly all countries, has laws? Oh obviously it does. It's the ones that let US kill millions. Thanks, I suggest I better go hide in the bunker, while I'm still alive - Omsk is a defended city, subject to bombardment, according to your "laws".

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-03-21 11:58pm

Stas, just shut up. You refuse to believe that Saddam is oppressing his people, while the facts are in front of your face. I suggest you read a news paper and get your head out of your arse.

Somebody shut this troll down.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-21 11:59pm

Nathan F,
I believe Saddam is opressing his people, but it's NONE of US business.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-03-21 11:59pm

Well, the US tried to kick Al Quaeda or Osama Bin Laden. And? Nothing.

Where the fuck do you live again? We have cut the brains out of Al Quaeda, maybe not the heart but the brains are more dangerous. We have cracked down on their funding, driven them out of their home, bitched slapped them with the 82nd airborn when they wanted to come back in, and with help of our friends and those who really aren't our friends, have caught a bunch of their headshed and upper echelon troops.

Yeah, your right. We are doing nothing to the Al Quaeda orginization.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-22 12:01am

Stas Bush wrote:Nathan F,
I believe Saddam is opressing his people, but it's NONE of US business.

Its none of the worlds business what America does with its own armed forces against nations which have fired on its military countless times. now shut up troll.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-22 12:01am

Stas Bush wrote:
Defended cities are subject to bombardment under the laws of WW2 and today.
Yeah. Japan was utterly defeated, yet wonderful bombs were down on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No one protested - everyone knew they could be the next.
The LAWS of WWII? You assume the war where all laws, social, political and moral, were broken by nearly all countries, has laws? Oh obviously it does. It's the ones that let US kill millions. Thanks, I suggest I better go hide in the bunker, while I'm still alive - Omsk is a defended city, subject to bombardment, according to your "laws".

japan was defeated, but they werent going to let a little thing like that stop them.

they were arming their children with bamboo spears in preperation for the mainland invasion. the nukes didnt stop them, either - nor did the russian invasion. some still wanted to continue fighting.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-22 12:02am

Knife
Let's wait for some more terrorism after the war. We'll see how effective US are. I live in Russia. Heard nothing in the news that US somehow eliminated the Alqaeda. Probably it's a government propaganda. Terrorists are not easy to kill.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-22 12:04am

It's a lie, because I know soldiers from Chechnya face-to-face

Which is why all ofthose Russian soldiers leaving Grozny had large bags full of loot, I saw it in the News, you're the victim of selectiv reporting.

Those two nations were lucky enough that the US and England kicked a royal amount of ass in WWII

What? REMEMBER STALINGRAD! You're thinking USSR didn't win the WAR? WOW!!! Now I think it's time to defend Russia seriously. The Soviets did ALL the dirty job. The Allies were so (silent?) that they opened the second front only in 1944!

You only won at Stalingrad because of the allies. Even if You took advantage during the cold winter you would have never made it into eurrope with the Us and UK and the Germans would have had to wait until summer to attakc you again. You guys fought great and u won stalingrad but the Germans had you outgunned and outclassed.

Well, the US tried to kick Al Quaeda or Osama Bin Laden. And? Nothing.

We got the Taliban, which is a lot more than what youve got, weve got a good number of Al Qaeda senior leaders. meanwhile you guys laid waste to Cechnya in the interest of keeping under control, was it really worth it?

DEVELOPING? All the ever near to WMD tech found in Iraq were outdated, left from previous time. How can it be DEVELOPING WMD?
And Korea already HAS WMD, as it proved so. So why don't you kick the stronger one?

These are WMDs not web browsers and operating systems, outdated IS STILL DEADLY. The Hiroshima and nagasaki bombs are nearly sixty years outdated but I bet theyd still do damage if set off in a metropolitan area. Like I said, provoking a war with north Korea puts South Korea and Japan (two key allies) at risk for nuclear attack. With Iraq we can contain their missles and forces to within their own borders, keeping the fighting away from other nations and espeically outr allies. Kuwait is being protected by fighter defense and patriot missles, which we don't really have deployed in Asia.

Also, my suggestion is, that when and if USA will attack NK, China and Russia will be against and may even take part in the war. WWIII can break out. Because Russians have interest on the far east. So do Chinese.

And the US wants WW3 why? We are trying to cooperate with China and Russia on this issue. The big fact is though is that north Korea will implode soon and Iraq, even without Saddam, Saddams Children and followers can maintain their aggression.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-03-22 12:06am

Stas Bush wrote:Knife
Let's wait for some more terrorism after the war. We'll see how effective US are. I live in Russia. Heard nothing in the news that US somehow eliminated the Alqaeda. Probably it's a government propaganda. Terrorists are not easy to kill.

I didn't say they are eliminated, just that we have done a good job towards neutering them. The number 3 guy (couldn't spell it, let alone say it) caught about 3 weeks ago is just propaganda huh?

The dismantleing of their infrastructure in Afganistan is just propaganda huh? The siezure of funds in various countries is propaganda huh?

Again, yeah you go me. We are doing nothing to Al Quaeda.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-22 12:07am

Enforcer Talen,
I admit war in Iraq may be not criminal at all, but do you seriously defend your government in this WWII action?

Yes, the Japanese were ready to fight. Soldiers vs. soldiers. Minimize civilian casualties. But US spared the life of soldiers with the innumerous dead civilians. It commited a war crime. Yet it was long ago. No one will now attack the US because it killed and wounded millions of civilians, rendering the cities uninhabitable and making people die from rays. It's all fine there. It was war. So why should Iraq be kicked for PREVIOUS war action?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-22 12:07am

Stas Bush wrote:
Defended cities are subject to bombardment under the laws of WW2 and today.
Yeah. Japan was utterly defeated, yet wonderful bombs were down on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No one protested - everyone knew they could be the next.

Had they surrendered? NO. Was the city defended and in use for war production? YES. The world had no reason to protest, America brought the war to a swift end and avoided an invasion which would have caused 2.5 million causalities in its first 30 days alone.

The LAWS of WWII? You assume the war where all laws, social, political and moral, were broken by nearly all countries, has laws?

Shut the fuck up. If there were no laws in WW2 then your claim of US war crimes is shot in the foot. You cannot commit a crime if there is no law to break.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-22 12:07am

Stas Bush wrote:Enforcer Talen,
I admit war in Iraq may be not criminal at all, but do you seriously defend your government in this WWII action?

Yes, the Japanese were ready to fight. Soldiers vs. soldiers. Minimize civilian casualties. But US spared the life of soldiers with the innumerous dead civilians. It commited a war crime. Yet it was long ago. No one will now attack the US because it killed and wounded millions of civilians, rendering the cities uninhabitable and making people die from rays. It's all fine there. It was war. So why should Iraq be kicked for PREVIOUS war action?

there were no civilians in fighting japan.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-03-22 12:07am

I wonder if our wonderful troll will be explaining to us the 'proper way' of removing a dictator, since apparantly the only way that works, IE, putting a bullet in his brain, is not allowed by his moronic little mind.