Ex-Nazi bookeeper charged [Update: Convicted and sentenced]

[Alyrium Denryle]

I think that everyone who was serving in Auschwitz not only could be tried like this, but should be. Ideally just put to death, quickly. The amount of murder and suffering he inflicted is immense; at this point the right to life is fortfeited.

I tend to agree without the death part now. I think shaving a couple years off an old mans life is pointless, just try the old murdering son of a bitch and give him life in prison which will be less than 7 years IMO. You don't get to work at Auschwitz even for a few hours (not saying the current Nazi PoS we're talking about only worked there for a few hours) and not get punished.

You realize he did not volunteer for Death Camp duty right? You also realize that precisely zero people died as a result of any actions he committed, right?

For fuck's sake, he signed up to be in, for lack of a better word, Nazi Civil Service. He was in payroll. Then all those sorts of administrative jobs got reallocated to disabled veterans, and he got shunted over into military service and assigned to count currency in a death camp.

His crime was to join the SS at all, which is a crime by bill of attainder (not necessarily a bad thing, but there is if I recall limited criminal liability attached to that). After that, where a person goes is not up to them. Especially when the Nazi hierarchy does not tell said person where they will be going or exactly what they will be doing until it is way the fuck too late. I mean, you would condemn the Wehrmacht draftee who delivers the mail.

[Titan Uranus]

What about the argument that severely punishing people in ancillary and positions might encourage others to go down fighting, as opposed to surrendering?

That would be a fair point, if there were any actual Nazis of relevance left, but they have all long since surrendered. The nationalists and Nazi sympathizers who still have power would not feel threatened by this man's fate, no matter what it may be.

Is there any reason he cannot do all of those things from a comfortable cell?
.

If he gives speeches to groups of people, being in a cell might make that harder

Then he can be led out, bound hand and foot, before crowds and cameras so that he may make his speeches. Alternatively, he may make his speeches from his cell.

[Flagg]

What about the argument that severely punishing people in ancillary and positions might encourage others to go down fighting, as opposed to surrendering?

They die sooner?

[Rogue 9]

Is there any reason he cannot do all of those things from a comfortable cell?

If he gives speeches to groups of people, being in a cell might make that harder

Then he can be led out, bound hand and foot, before crowds and cameras so that he may make his speeches. Alternatively, he may make his speeches from his cell.

He's an old man; just how physically dangerous or capable of cross-country sprinting do you think he is? He doesn't need to be in fetters to be prevented from escaping.

I will never be caught wishing anything but swift justice on anyone who was any part of the Nazi death machine, but I find it arguable that death or long imprisonment is justice for someone who was drafted into an ancillary clerking post, tried to transfer out (especially to front-line combat on the Eastern Front; he was willing to put himself in great danger to get away), and never killed anyone while there. If they had someone who was operating a gas chamber then yes, he would deserve death for not disobeying his orders, but that isn't what we're talking about. Should he face retribution even at this late date? Arguably yes, but given the (lack of) magnitude of his crime, and his activities since, treating him as a cold-blooded murderer seems overboard.

[lance]

What about the argument that severely punishing people in ancillary and positions might encourage others to go down fighting, as opposed to surrendering?

That would be a fair point, if there were any actual Nazis of relevance left, but they have all long since surrendered. The nationalists and Nazi sympathizers who still have power would not feel threatened by this man's fate, no matter what it may be.
.

I am more thinking of this setting precedent for current organizations like the LRA, Boko Haram, Hamas, and ISIS

[SVPD]

a crime by bill of attainder

This is really all that needs to be said - and I don't normally agree with AD.

Some of you people are fucking despicable, wanting to try an old man who clearly did not want to be there for doing some bookkeeping at Auschwitz. Maybe you could try the entire nation of Finland too for allying with the Germans when they disagreed with them while you're at it. I mean, truly despicable. You didn't face the death camps, you didn't face the choices of being a young man indoctrinated from age 12 in Nazi Germany and not a single life will be saved or improved with this trial. This trial, and this debate, is about people living in comfortable situations and posting on the internet telling themselves they are standing up against evil without even trivial effort.

[Titan Uranus]

If he gives speeches to groups of people, being in a cell might make that harder

Then he can be led out, bound hand and foot, before crowds and cameras so that he may make his speeches. Alternatively, he may make his speeches from his cell.

He's an old man; just how physically dangerous or capable of cross-country sprinting do you think he is? He doesn't need to be in fetters to be prevented from escaping.

I am not worried about his escape, the fetters are to rob him of dignity, and in doing so render him pathetic. It seems to me that a significant part of the limited popularity of Nazism in Germany is due to the fact that many of the young see the Nazis as "cool", the fact that the ideology is forbidden in Germany does not help matters. Killing the man renders him a martyr, especially because of his successful reintegration into society. The fetters are for display, you'll note that I specified a comfortable cell, I was not being sarcastic in that, there is no reason that he cannot be kept in what the German equivalent of white-collar prison is, as long as in public, he is made to look as pathetic as possible in order to drive home the idea to the young Nazis of Germany that should they attempt to follow in his footsteps that they will not die as martyrs (for a great many young men do not care if they die) but that they will lose and look stupid and pathetic (which I strongly suspect that they are afraid of).

I will never be caught wishing anything but swift justice on anyone who was any part of the Nazi death machine, but I find it arguable that death or long imprisonment is justice for someone who was drafted into an ancillary clerking post, tried to transfer out (especially to front-line combat on the Eastern Front; he was willing to put himself in great danger to get away), and never killed anyone while there. If they had someone who was operating a gas chamber then yes, he would deserve death for not disobeying his orders, but that isn't what we're talking about. Should he face retribution even at this late date? Arguably yes, but given the (lack of) magnitude of his crime, and his activities since, treating him as a cold-blooded murderer seems overboard.

1. I commend you for you courageous stance against Nazism, but this man forfeited his life long ago, and might I suggest that what remains of it might be more useful to the cause alive rather than dead?

2. Transfer to an SS unit on the Eastern front would also be provide many opportunities to commit murder against the Slavs, as well as killing them in battle, and would also be consistent with him being a true believer in the Nazi cause. I might have missed something, but as far as I know we only really have his word and letters to contradict that.

3. The lateness of the hour and his actions since may call for some leniency, which is why I specified a comfortable cell, but it is absurd to let a man who joined an organization dedicated to to eradication of somewhere between much of and most of the Earth's population, and which made concrete steps toward that point go free simply because politics prevented him from being prosecuted earlier. If he had turned his coat before the end of the war it would be different, but instead he waited until he was in no danger from doing so, and indeed he gained notoriety for denouncing Nazism.

What about the argument that severely punishing people in ancillary and positions might encourage others to go down fighting, as opposed to surrendering?

That would be a fair point, if there were any actual Nazis of relevance left, but they have all long since surrendered. The nationalists and Nazi sympathizers who still have power would not feel threatened by this man's fate, no matter what it may be.
.

I am more thinking of this setting precedent for current organizations like the LRA, Boko Haram, Hamas, and ISIS

None of those groups could possibly care what distant, irrelevant (to them) Germany does to this man.
Most war criminals and genociders go free, especially those outside of the first world, why should they care whether this cog goes free or dies in prison?

[Grumman]

You didn't face the death camps

Groening didn't face the death camps, he helped run one. Why the fuck would you try to use the people he helped kill to defend him?

[Ralin]

You didn't face the death camps

Groening didn't face the death camps, he helped run one. Why the fuck would you try to use the people he helped kill to defend him?

Most people would take the existence of literal death camps as evidence that their government is serious and shouldn't be pissed off

[The Romulan Republic]

Some out tens of millions of people that is. Exceptions again and I must point out that most of them were not trying to martyr themselves. Georg Elser tried to murder Hitler, but not in a way that would endanger his own life. The White Rose was also not openly resisting but covertly. The only one who played with the idea was Stauffenberg, but he too thought he could contribute more alive than dead eventually.

And that's the thing, isn't it? The topic are not people who defy tyranny and injustice in general, but those who'd willingly sacrifice themselves fighting it for even the most futile gesture of righteousness like the one demanded of the person in the OP. That means that the number of exceptions you can point out shrinks even more.

Its an example of someone choosing to fight rather than play it safe, presumably for reasons that they thought were right. I'd say its relevant.

Nope, it isn't. Fighting when your life and livelihood are actively threatened is different from standing up and sacrificing your and maybe your familiy's life just for moral righteousness . See that example I brought up above? What's your answer to that?

Could you elaborate on this, preferably with a credible source?

It's a well-known fact that neither the Free French nor the French Resistance for example had much support initially and Petain, the collaborator, sat firmly in the saddle until at least 1943 when the Nazis took the rest of France. You brought up people resisting the Nazis so I'd presume you already did your research on the topic, no?

I recommend reading Raymond Cartier's work about World War 2. It's a french author and he doesn't have much nice to say about his country's role in the war.

Often they do. You cannot simply ignore those who do because they don't fit your cynical little world view.

I'd point out that Blacks in the US are still second-class citizens and that there's no major rights movement in sight. How much progress did the Ferguson protests bring? The country at large either doesn't care or thinks those are just a bunch of unruly rioters. It's not cynical, it's realist.

I did not say that, though I admit I have no desire to die (in part because the dead can no longer help the living). I said that I am a coward in some respects, but I believe that their are some lines I would not cross. Of course, as I said, I haven't faced the test of my own nation being overrun by Nazis or something similar, so I can't definitively say what I would do in that situation, only what I think one should do and I hope I would have the courage to do.

As for my justification: moral principle derived from the belief that other people matter. Do you object?

The point is that heaping scorn on people for not living up for your standards of righteousness is damn hypocritical if are not actually willing or ready to do so yourself. If you had been a german accountant in Auschwitz counting the money looted off the corpses of the murdered can you say you'd have done the "right" thing? Don't forget that in this case you also grew up believing those victims to be inhuman scum that deserved this treatment, that your superiors were always right and that obedience was the highest virtue to be followed.

Can you say with honest conviction you'd have done better?

While there's no way to prove what I would have done in a situation I've never been in, I know that as I am, would not willingly work in a death camp. I doubt I would have remained in Germany long enough to end up assigned to a death camp. Now if I was indoctrinated since I was a little kid, like the guy in this story apparently was- who the hell knows. Some people don't blindly follow what they're taught as children, but brainwashing is a powerful thing.

But even if I was a hypocrite, it wouldn't mean that my point is wrong. People aren't disqualified from having moral principles because they're imperfect. If they were, no one would be allowed to have any such principles.

And if you're trying to argue that one has to have personally served Nazi Germany to pass judgement on those who did well, go fuck yourself.

And no shit their are still civil rights issues in America. And their are still people fighting to change that. But I'll take today over the time when interracial marriage was illegal and black people couldn't vote any day. I don't care how much you want to wallow in misanthropy and cynicism- the world is a better place in many ways, in part because of people who did the right thing even at risk to themselves. And to ignore or downplay what they did insults them.

As for the idea that fighting tyranny doesn't count as an example of endangering oneself to do the right thing if its done against an invader of your country... again, go fuck yourself. You can say it doesn't count because they were fighting to protect themselves, but tell me- was the average French resistance fighter, for example, in more or less danger because they chose to fight the Nazis? I don't think this is a hard one, asshole. They took a personal risk, presumably because they felt it was the right thing to do. Don't dismiss that so that you can win an argument or marinate in your smug cynicism.

[The Romulan Republic]

As to this case, while I don't excuse what the guy did, I don't think their'd be any point in imprisoning him if what I've read in this thread is true. He was young and probably indoctrinated at the time and seems to be genuinely repentant and no longer a supporter of the Nazis, as well as very old. I doubt he's much of a threat to any one. Imprisoning him would serve no practical purpose. It would merely be an exercise in spite, and as such, a waste of tax payers' money.

[K. A. Pital]

I feel that some people are seriously not understanding the difference between the SS and "civil service". The SS was not "civil service". The person in question joined the SS to fight, because he was militaristic fanatic and he wanted to see war, but found himself too cowardly to go fighting at first, so remained on a desk job in the SS. But then the perverse Nazi logic of racial war, which meant extermination, actually made him confront the genocide with his eyes. That is when he started asking for a transfer to the frontlines.

As for attempts to take a jab at me, I would want you try to resist an authoritarian regime knowing full well that people who do so can end up severely beaten up to full disability or even death by mafia mob or even the police itself. And how many of you had been in this situation, eh? So think carefully before saying I accuse this guy lightly just to 'feel good', yes.

[Flagg]

I think that everyone who was serving in Auschwitz not only could be tried like this, but should be. Ideally just put to death, quickly. The amount of murder and suffering he inflicted is immense; at this point the right to life is fortfeited.

I tend to agree without the death part now. I think shaving a couple years off an old mans life is pointless, just try the old murdering son of a bitch and give him life in prison which will be less than 7 years IMO. You don't get to work at Auschwitz even for a few hours (not saying the current Nazi PoS we're talking about only worked there for a few hours) and not get punished.

You realize he did not volunteer for Death Camp duty right? You also realize that precisely zero people died as a result of any actions he committed, right?

For fuck's sake, he signed up to be in, for lack of a better word, Nazi Civil Service. He was in payroll. Then all those sorts of administrative jobs got reallocated to disabled veterans, and he got shunted over into military service and assigned to count currency in a death camp.

His crime was to join the SS at all, which is a crime by bill of attainder (not necessarily a bad thing, but there is if I recall limited criminal liability attached to that). After that, where a person goes is not up to them. Especially when the Nazi hierarchy does not tell said person where they will be going or exactly what they will be doing until it is way the fuck too late. I mean, you would condemn the Wehrmacht draftee who delivers the mail.

Since when was the whole "I was just following orders, if I didn't do it they would have killed me, too!" defense been made an OK one to use? I thought all of that shit got sorted out at Nuremburg. And I'm not talking about dragging a 93 year old man around in shackles and throwing him in a dungeon. He should be treated well and have all of his needs looked after and even put in a comfortable cell (maybe a fucking apartment like Anders Breivik got, the scum), but he should be put on trial because he worked at fucking Auschwitz. Do I think he's a danger anymore? Of course not, but what he represents is. And he performed a necessary task for Auschwitz to function or he wouldn't have even been there.

People calling for leaving him alone because he's a 93 year old man miss the point that if you don't attack evil on all fronts it just walks in the back door and sets up shop. Like I've said, you don't have to be cruel to the 93 year old Auschwitz bookkeeper, but you have to hold him accountable for what he represents. And what he represents is the banality of evil. So put him on trial, and if found guilty put him in a comfortable setting with all of his medical needs looked after, close to his family so as to allow unlimited visits, and when he dies, he dies, the end. Or if he is acquitted, you confronted and attacked evil. You made a stand not against a 93 year old man, but against what he was accused of represents.

[Patroklos]

I feel that some people are seriously not understanding the difference between the SS and "civil service". The SS was not "civil service". The person in question joined the SS to fight, because he was militaristic fanatic and he wanted to see war, but found himself too cowardly to go fighting at first, so remained on a desk job in the SS.

Jesus, again why do you have to make this shit up? Literally nothing you said above is correct. He was previously a bank clerk before the war started and he was assigned his clerk duties in the SS because of his skills in that profession. It had nothing to do with cowardice unless you think any person not in combat arms is some how a coward. He also didn't rush to military glory either, not joining until after the French campaign and before anyone knew there was going to be a Russian campaign.

Everyone at Auschwitz was not some born and bred super villain. They were regular people prior to that point, and that makes it WORSE because it shows us that regular people can and will do horrendous things. That we have it in each of us to be just as despicable. It would be easier if he were as you described because we could just chalk it up to bad apples being dicks because they were always that way. Not so.

[K. A. Pital]

I am not "making shit up" - he was fascinated by the military and joined the SS in hopes that his Waffen-SS assignment will let him fight and look cool in uniform. He joined the Steel Helm as a kid and he and his relatives were always fascinated by Nazi military. He was not a "supervillain", just a sad banal piece of shit in a piece of shit Nazi country.

Sorry about this, but if you think you can work at Auschwitz and still be considered morally clean, something is seriously wrong with you.

Yes, regular people can do horrible things. Often this goes unpunished and even unquestioned.

This is one of the few situations when the banality of following orders clearly meant to increase suffering on a grand scale is questioned. The Nazis intended this for fuck's sake! In the man's own words he thought of extermination as a form of racial war. How the fuck is this "normal"?

I am not saying he was born evil. He became evil. He was a cog in the machine that was crushing human lives like a meatgrinder, not even in war... although every leader who launched an aggressive war of conquest is also culpable, a murderer, and you can disagree with me all you like, I am not going to change this view.

[Thanas]

Meanwhile, in Germany....

[Flagg]

He was a bookkeeper. What was he bookkeeping, exactly? Was he doing payroll, costs of inventory, or was it as I suspect, keeping track of the cash and valuables found in the luggage or in the clothes of those people immediately or soon to be murdered by his friends? Was he counting up the value in gold crowns pulled out of the mouths of the dead? What was he bookkeeping?

[Flagg]

Meanwhile, in Germany....

In response, Kor’s 49 co-plaintiffs released a statement through their lawyers on Monday morning to criticise her statements and her decision to appear as a co-plaintiff in the first place.

“Our clients would not comment here – who better than a survivor of Auschwitz knows that everyone needs to find their own way to overcome their suffering – if Mrs Kor did not repeatedly stage her ‘forgiveness’ publicly,” the statement read.

“The subject of this criminal procedure is NOT that Mr Gröning has done anything personally to Mrs Kor or any of the other co-plaintiffs,” it continued. “Whether it is Mrs Kor’s place to forgive Mr. Gröning’s participation in the murder of her relatives is up to everyone to decide for themselves. But Mrs. Kor says, ‘These prosecutions must stop’. Then she should not have become a co-plaintiff.”

I won't criticize anyone who went through that cauldron of hell for forgiving the man in question. But I agree with her 49 other co-plaintiffs in saying that if her opinion is that the prosecutions should stop, then she should not be dishonest in becoming a plaintiff simply as a means to stab her fellow plaintiffs in the back to get her platform of blanket immunity due to being able to hide your past as an evil fucking shit for 70+ years.

[lance]

What about the argument that severely punishing people in ancillary and positions might encourage others to go down fighting, as opposed to surrendering?

They die sooner?

Among others.

None of those groups could possibly care what distant, irrelevant (to them) Germany does to this man.
Most war criminals and genociders go free, especially those outside of the first world, why should they care whether this cog goes free or dies in prison?

They might not now, but if/when the west gets seriously involved I would rather not risk this being used to keep people from deserting these groups.

Since when was the whole "I was just following orders, if I didn't do it they would have killed me, too!" defense been made an OK one to use? I thought all of that shit got sorted out at Nuremburg..

I believe its been ok for everything short of murder for ever

. And he performed a necessary task for Auschwitz to function or he wouldn't have even been there.

I don't think that logic follows. Him being there doesn't mean he performed a necessary task for Auschwitz to function

[Channel72]

Oh for fuck's sake...

As a Jew of Eastern European descent, all I have to say is: let this go.

It was more than half a century ago, and the guy was clearly a product of his indoctrination and brainwashing. We're not talking about Josef Mengele here - he was just some accountant. I'd rather let him live out the last decade or so of his life in peace. He probably already feels like a total piece of shit for what he was involved with.

I mean seriously: if I was born as a German during the two decades leading up to the Third Reich, I too may very well have been involved in some small way or another with operating and maintaining the Nazi death machine. But I wasn't... by pure chance I was born a Jew in the United States in a different time. Gröning wasn't. He probably might have had a nice, lucrative career as an accountant if he was born somewhere else, in some other time. But he was born in a nation that literally raped his mind with propaganda at a young age. Just let this shit go already.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I am not "making shit up" - he was fascinated by the military and joined the SS in hopes that his Waffen-SS assignment will let him fight and look cool in uniform. He joined the Steel Helm as a kid and he and his relatives were always fascinated by Nazi military. He was not a "supervillain", just a sad banal piece of shit in a piece of shit Nazi country.

Unless you have a time machine, you ARE making shit up, you dishonest little fuck. I don't even care about the argument with respect to morality being made, here, but it's ridiculous the lengths you are going to lie and make shit up, here. Not a single article on the subject supports anything you've said. It is pure bullshit and conjecture. Grow up.

[K. A. Pital]

Unless you have a time machine, you ARE making shit up, you dishonest little fuck. I don't even care about the argument with respect to morality being made, here, but it's ridiculous the lengths you are going to lie and make shit up, here. Not a single article on the subject supports anything you've said. It is pure bullshit and conjecture. Grow up.

Idiot, learn to fucking read. Every second material about him mentions how in 1940 he was drawn to the SS by wartime fervour and his love of military uniforms. I can quote it from his very mouth:

He continues leafing through the album, clearly searching for something. "Here," he taps a photo with his finger, "look at the way we used to march."

The picture, taken in 1933, shows a group of children wearing military uniform, marching behind a flag. A flag displaying a swastika hangs from a house. Young Oskar, marching in the first row, is twelve years old and a member of the youth wing of "Stahlhelm."

Was did the uniform mean to you?

"It fascinated me. Even today, when I hear military music," his voices trembles and breaks. "Forgive me, but it's such an experience for me, so uplifting, even today."

...

Oskar Gröning removes his leg from the footstool, sits up straight and begins to sing, quietly at first, then louder. "And when Jewish blood begins to drip from our knives, things will be good again."

...

The distinctions between the man of today and the man of the past blur for a moment, but then he returns to the present and says: "Back then we didn't even think about what we were singing."

He continues leafing through the album. He has written "1941, with Aunt Anna" in blue ink beneath a photo with jagged edges. It depicts the young Gröning, tall, blonde and wearing a uniform with the letters SS stitched into the collar. He sits on the arm of a chair and smiles, obviously very proud of his uniform.

He had seen images of the SS in weekly news reports. He thought they were smart, the smartest unit of all. He volunteered in 1940.

Why?

"It was spontaneous enthusiasm, a sense of not wanting to be the last one in the game, when the whole thing was practically over."

Fuck you, idiots. The whole country was riled up by Nazi militaritic racist nonsense, but this guy fell for it completely. You are blind fools if you cannot see it.

I know there is a habit nowadays to paint a victim out of the perpetrator, but this should stop at some point. Propaganda is not a fucking excuse for genocide, you idiots.

[Flagg]

Unless you have a time machine, you ARE making shit up, you dishonest little fuck. I don't even care about the argument with respect to morality being made, here, but it's ridiculous the lengths you are going to lie and make shit up, here. Not a single article on the subject supports anything you've said. It is pure bullshit and conjecture. Grow up.

Idiot, learn to fucking read. Every second material about him mentions how in 1940 he was drawn to the SS by wartime fervour and his love of military uniforms. I can quote it from his very mouth:

He continues leafing through the album, clearly searching for something. "Here," he taps a photo with his finger, "look at the way we used to march."

The picture, taken in 1933, shows a group of children wearing military uniform, marching behind a flag. A flag displaying a swastika hangs from a house. Young Oskar, marching in the first row, is twelve years old and a member of the youth wing of "Stahlhelm."

Was did the uniform mean to you?

"It fascinated me. Even today, when I hear military music," his voices trembles and breaks. "Forgive me, but it's such an experience for me, so uplifting, even today."

...

Oskar Gröning removes his leg from the footstool, sits up straight and begins to sing, quietly at first, then louder. "And when Jewish blood begins to drip from our knives, things will be good again."

...

The distinctions between the man of today and the man of the past blur for a moment, but then he returns to the present and says: "Back then we didn't even think about what we were singing."

He continues leafing through the album. He has written "1941, with Aunt Anna" in blue ink beneath a photo with jagged edges. It depicts the young Gröning, tall, blonde and wearing a uniform with the letters SS stitched into the collar. He sits on the arm of a chair and smiles, obviously very proud of his uniform.

He had seen images of the SS in weekly news reports. He thought they were smart, the smartest unit of all. He volunteered in 1940.

Why?

"It was spontaneous enthusiasm, a sense of not wanting to be the last one in the game, when the whole thing was practically over."

Fuck you, idiots. The whole country was riled up by Nazi militaritic racist nonsense, but this guy fell for it completely. You are blind fools if you cannot see it.

I know there is a habit nowadays to paint a victim out of the perpetrator, but this should stop at some point. Propaganda is not a fucking excuse for genocide, you idiots.

This is just disgusting to me. We have fuckers defending a system full of racist cops in one thread and other fuckers defending an actual fucking SS Nazi who worked at Auschwitz in here! What the fuck happened to this place?!

[Gaidin]

This is just disgusting to me. We have fuckers defending a system full of racist cops in one thread and other fuckers defending an actual fucking SS Nazi who worked at Auschwitz in here! What the fuck happened to this place?!

I'm spitballing here. But some might see a difference between an accountant indoctrinated as a youth, and another who had rank, embraced it knowingly as an adult, and made decisions of historically murderous note. I don't know though. As I said, I'm just spitballing.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

This is just disgusting to me. We have fuckers defending a system full of racist cops in one thread and other fuckers defending an actual fucking SS Nazi who worked at Auschwitz in here! What the fuck happened to this place?!

Next time some of these guys start whining about gay rights, this thread should be shoved into their faces.