Mayweather vs Pacquiao

[Borgholio]

So anybody else watch the fight last night? Anybody else feel that the preceding two fights were actually more exciting than the main event?

[aerius]

I saw a replay of the highlights, and if those were the highlights there's no way in hell I'm going to watch the fight.

[Flagg]

I don't like to criticize other sports (except in jest), but I honestly don't see the appeal of watching 2 men with giant pads on their hands punching each other until the one with the most brain damage can't stand up or falls down 3 times in the same round. I mean if it were bareknuckle boxing that might be one thing, more because if you kept it to 15 rounds you will almost always end with a point count victory or tie rather than due the extreme brain damage we see these days since boxers can punch much, much harder with padding on the knuckles. And as a bonus, by the end there is blood everywhere!

[aerius]

Flagg, I got 2 words for you: Vale Tudo.

[Death Zebra]

Or as Drop The Dead Donkey put it "Is getting bludgeoned remorselessly around the head bad for you?"

Also, I did not know bare-knuckle fights even stopped until there was a winner.

[Flagg]

Flagg, I got 2 words for you: Vale Tudo.

Sweeet. Now give them swords...

But seriously, that it 10x as interesting to me as whatever type of boxing it is with the giant foam gloves.

But whenever they used to give us stuff like that in karate I'd just head-butt my opponent, kick him in the side of the knee forcing him to fall backwards while distracted and then step on his (protected with a cup) balls until the instructor yanked me off and yelled at me for not using the "right form" to win the fight. And I was thinking "I thought winning was winning, he's on the ground crying, I'm not, what's the fucking problem?" Stupid karate.

Or as Drop The Dead Donkey put it "Is getting bludgeoned remorselessly around the head bad for you?"

Also, I did not know bare-knuckle fights even stopped until there was a winner.

IDK, I think it depended, but yeah, most went on until someone quit or was KO'd. But it was so damned bloody and disfiguring that they started forcing them to only go a certain number of rounds with gloves on, which incidentally does far more damage to the brain. So just take off the gloves, keep the 15 rounds, and we'll see a ton of blood and there will be more hand surgeries and less brain surgeries.

[Simon_Jester]

Flagg, I got 2 words for you: Vale Tudo.

Sweeet. Now give them swords...

But seriously, that it 10x as interesting to me as whatever type of boxing it is with the giant foam gloves.

But whenever they used to give us stuff like that in karate I'd just head-butt my opponent, kick him in the side of the knee forcing him to fall backwards while distracted and then step on his (protected with a cup) balls until the instructor yanked me off and yelled at me for not using the "right form" to win the fight. And I was thinking "I thought winning was winning, he's on the ground crying, I'm not, what's the fucking problem?" Stupid karate.

Well, the big issue there is that someone who is well trained in karate (actual fighting karate, not will-run-dojo-for-cash karate) would still be able to kick your ass unless you completely get the drop on him, because he knows how to block and evade attacks that would be incapacitating when you use them on some random kid that doesn't know any better.

And you can't train to block and evade attacks if you're randomly acting in ways that tend to mutilate people by breaking their knees or crushing their nuts, because nobody in their right mind would practice fighting against someone who acts that way. So part of learning how to be genuinely good is being able to train, and part of learning how to train is learning how to deliver (and take) blows so that neither training partner suffers lasting damage.

This is totally separate from your preference for more blood in your blood sport.

[Flagg]

Flagg, I got 2 words for you: Vale Tudo.

Sweeet. Now give them swords...

But seriously, that it 10x as interesting to me as whatever type of boxing it is with the giant foam gloves.

But whenever they used to give us stuff like that in karate I'd just head-butt my opponent, kick him in the side of the knee forcing him to fall backwards while distracted and then step on his (protected with a cup) balls until the instructor yanked me off and yelled at me for not using the "right form" to win the fight. And I was thinking "I thought winning was winning, he's on the ground crying, I'm not, what's the fucking problem?" Stupid karate.

Well, the big issue there is that someone who is well trained in karate (actual fighting karate, not will-run-dojo-for-cash karate) would still be able to kick your ass unless you completely get the drop on him, because he knows how to block and evade attacks that would be incapacitating when you use them on some random kid that doesn't know any better.

And you can't train to block and evade attacks if you're randomly acting in ways that tend to mutilate people by breaking their knees or crushing their nuts, because nobody in their right mind would practice fighting against someone who acts that way. So part of learning how to be genuinely good is being able to train, and part of learning how to train is learning how to deliver (and take) blows so that neither training partner suffers lasting damage.

This is totally separate from your preference for more blood in your blood sport.

Well, I was joking about giving them swords, so...

And because my brain is turning into lukewarm cottage cheese I forgot to mention I was 5 or 6 during the karate shit and once they explained that they didn't mean "beat your opponent like a normal person who actually knows how to win a fight does" but rather, "dance in a way acceptable for boys because our societal attitude on gender is more barbaric and disgustingly immoral than it will be in 2015 (and we don't get any fucking flying cars either, so fuck you) but headway is made in many other areas (except for women and blacks)" I understood and took dancing karate class much less seriously.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, no.

There is actually an underlying purpose to the dance, at least in a class sincerely intended to teach martial arts. I just mentioned it.

Now, granted, your particular karate class might have essentially been "dance class for boys." Did they actually come out and say so?

Because otherwise, my previous point still stands. Any given technique for fighting includes certain basic principles like "stand this way" and "move that way" and "block or dodge attacks this way." To learn how to protect yourself, and how to counter various "street-fighting" moves of the kind you were using, requires an orderly environment.

And it requires that the people learning new moves NOT have to worry about being 'accidentally' crippled by an attacker who's too aggressive to learn how to pull their punches when the objective is to learn how to avoid a punch.

Unarmed combat training with formalized stances and styles can and does work- and it depends on the trainees being willing to follow the rules of the training.

[Raw Shark]

Report: Philippines Citizens Currently Watching Their Congressman Fight a Guy on TV.

[Adam Reynolds]

Report: Philippines Citizens Currently Watching Their Congressman Fight a Guy on TV.

I would have actually payed $80 on pay per view to watch that.

[Raw Shark]

Report: Philippines Citizens Currently Watching Their Congressman Fight a Guy on TV.

I would have actually payed $80 on pay per view to watch that.

Looks like you missed out; it's a real thing that actually happened. Pacquiao is an actual-factual congressperson in his home state, for two terms now.

[Flagg]

Well, no.

There is actually an underlying purpose to the dance, at least in a class sincerely intended to teach martial arts. I just mentioned it.

Now, granted, your particular karate class might have essentially been "dance class for boys." Did they actually come out and say so?

Because otherwise, my previous point still stands. Any given technique for fighting includes certain basic principles like "stand this way" and "move that way" and "block or dodge attacks this way." To learn how to protect yourself, and how to counter various "street-fighting" moves of the kind you were using, requires an orderly environment.

And it requires that the people learning new moves NOT have to worry about being 'accidentally' crippled by an attacker who's too aggressive to learn how to pull their punches when the objective is to learn how to avoid a punch.

Unarmed combat training with formalized stances and styles can and does work- and it depends on the trainees being willing to follow the rules of the training.

No, they never came out and said it directly, but looking back on it, it's clearly what it was for the vast majority of us, with the few who were really good kind of being taught the real shit more off to the side. I think they were more being trained for competitions and stuff, but most were in their mid-teens, and I quit when I was 12 because I was just bored of it. I was a "red belt" when I quit, and since most every strip mall space with mirrors for walls and mats on the floor "dojo" has their own system, who the fuck knows what that means?
No, mostly it was pushups, dance routine, see blocks broken in half, and GTFO to do something interesting.

[Adam Reynolds]

Report: Philippines Citizens Currently Watching Their Congressman Fight a Guy on TV.

I would have actually payed $80 on pay per view to watch that.

Looks like you missed out; it's a real thing that actually happened. Pacquiao is an actual-factual congressperson in his home state, for two terms now.

I meant if he were my congressman. I would pay to see him get punched him in the face repeatedly.

No, mostly it was pushups, dance routine, see blocks broken in half, and GTFO to do something interesting.

That is a major bullshit thing that is frequently shown in most martial arts. Wood is incredibly weak when broken with the grain.

And there was an amusing comment I remember from Penn and Teller when they did an episode on Martial Arts. Why don't we stories in the news of "martial artist foils crime."

[biostem]

They need to institute stricter rules in boxing regarding holding/hugging and require fighters to throw punches with more regularity. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that points should be deducted for holding/hugging and for just sitting there wasting time. I understand that there's an element of strategy to the fight, but when you have fighters who are just trying to score points vs taking part in an actual fight, then you kind of go against the reason everyone is paying to watch in the first place.

[Simon_Jester]

No, they never came out and said it directly, but looking back on it, it's clearly what it was for the vast majority of us, with the few who were really good kind of being taught the real shit more off to the side. I think they were more being trained for competitions and stuff, but most were in their mid-teens, and I quit when I was 12 because I was just bored of it. I was a "red belt" when I quit, and since most every strip mall space with mirrors for walls and mats on the floor "dojo" has their own system, who the fuck knows what that means?
No, mostly it was pushups, dance routine, see blocks broken in half, and GTFO to do something interesting.

True.

Although honestly, I'd be worried about any martial arts instructor who was willing to teach serious, powerful martial arts moves to little kids. Kids get into fights for really fucking stupid reasons, and concepts like "restraint" are usually beyond them. Many of them have basically no concept of the difference between a fight they 'had to' have and a fight they 'chose to' have by standing around provoking people.

If you teach enough random children how to actually do something that will seriously hurt someone, sooner or later one of them is going to do it because "WAAAH SHE STOLE MY CRAYON" or "HE SAID NASTY THINGS ABOUT ME ON FACEBOOK" or "THEY TOOK MY PHONE" (which turns out to have been under the idiot-child's folder all along), or some other ridiculous bullshit.

Then you have parents wondering how the hell their child got a broken wrist because you taught Little Timmy how to do the seven secret joint-busting-fu techniques.

So honestly, even in the context of actually wanting to teach martial arts, I can kind of see the argument for having the kids do various exercises that are not very useful for straight-up ruining someone or smashing their face into a wall, but that build their agility and aerobic fitness and so on. In other words, dance for boys.

That is a major bullshit thing that is frequently shown in most martial arts. Wood is incredibly weak when broken with the grain.

And there was an amusing comment I remember from Penn and Teller when they did an episode on Martial Arts. Why don't we stories in the news of "martial artist foils crime."

Fair point, although realistically very few martial artists are likely to win in a situation where, unarmed, they face a criminal who is presumably armed themselves. And even those who do have a decent chance of winning are unlikely to gamble on their karate being sufficient to overcome your knife.

[Elheru Aran]

One does occasionally run into situations where you have little kids (usually the instructor's child) who get all the way up to like Black Belt 5th Grade or something silly like that. You have to wonder just how useful that is to a 6-year-old... No joke, I once tried out at a dojo where the kid sleeping on some of the tumbling mats was exactly that. Well, he might have been like 10, but still. It's slightly absurd.

[Flagg]

I just want to make something clear in case it's not and I get accused of being a sexist pig or something for "deriding" Karate (and various other "martial arts" styles/ schools) as "dance class for boys." I am not deriding it at all, just the fact that they lure in a lot of kids who don't just need the self-confidence, but are physically bullied in school (and no matter what school districts say it's zero tolerance for defending, not attacking as just like the NFL it's always the second punch thrown and the one who threw it that is given zero tolerance, rarely the bully, who tends to get away with it all the time. But that's anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth. ) But no, "dance class for boys" isn't a derision, it's just my view on what it is. You're taught proper form, proper way of doing something that will improve balance, and proper way to block, in sequence. And once you have the moves all down, you combine them and do a dance/ series of blocks and counter-attacks that would never work in a real fight.

But it's good activity for kids who would otherwise be sitting on their fat asses picking their noses watching whatever horrible stupidification designed television program made for children is before playing more 'Call of Duty' aka "Calling people f****ts, n***ers, and various insults for the poor, women, and Latinos" until everyone leaves the server with the 12 year old troll, or just stops wasting time on a game series that sucks horribly anyway. So I'd rather have my horrible offspring that will never exist thank the Lord! (me) do dance school for boys to learn some discipline, rather than listening to new and hateful jargon on the PS5 and XBox <Insert Stupid, Easily Made Fun of Name Here> in 'Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare 3" where you're basically a drone pilot that swears at everyone and talks about "how fat yo momma be."