Florida: 15 years prison for sex on beach

[Irbis]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/0 ... 16136.html

A Florida couple convicted of having sex on a crowded beach face up to 15 years behind bars and must register as sex offenders and for illicit public sexcapades.

A Manatee County jury on Monday deliberated for about 15 minutes, before finding 20-year-old Elissa Alvarez and 40-year-old Jose "Benny" Caballero guilty of lewd and lascivious exhibition.

The conviction came following a 2-day trial, during which the prosecution showed the jury a video filmed by a grandmother during a July visit to Cortez Beach in Bradenton. The video, according to The Associated Press, shows Alvarez moving on top of Caballero in a sexual manner.

The incident, the prosecutor said, was witnessed by several people, including the mother of a 4-year-old girl who told police her daughter “witnessed the couple having sex.”

The defense failed in their attempts to convince the jury Alvarez had been dancing on Caballero, something Assistant State Attorney Anthony Dafonseca mocked in his closing argument.

"She wasn't dancing," Dafonseca said. "It's insulting your intelligence to say that she was dancing."

Caballero's defense attorney, Ronald Kurpiers, told The Bradenton Herald his client has a prior criminal record for cocaine-trafficking. Because the charge in this case is a felony crime and occurred less than three years after Caballero's release from prison, the judge will have no choice but to give him the full 15-year prison sentence.

"That's what he'll get," Kurpiers said.

Dafonseca plans to ask for an unspecified jail term for Alvarez, the newspaper reported.

The prosecuting attorney told The Miami Herald the couple declined an earlier opportunity to enter into a plea deal, which have likely resulted in much lighter sentences.

"We gave them a reasonable offer, what we felt was reasonable, and they decided it wasn't something they wanted to accept responsibility for," Dafonseca told The Miami Herald. "Despite the video, despite all the witnesses."

Good we purged this unnatural criminal behaviour from society, eh?

[salm]

Sounds like Saudi Arabia.

[LaCroix]

The laaaa-hand of the (not so, it seems) freeeeeeee... And the home of the (obviously too, in this case) brave....

I get that they needed a slap on the wrist for being that public with their sex, but up to 15 years? Sex offender? Come on!

[The Romulan Republic]

Sounds like Saudi Arabia.

Nah. In Saudi Arabia they'd probably be flogged or beheaded.

[K. A. Pital]

In Saudi Arabia they would most certainly be flogged and possibly locked away for 15 years each... Wait. That is what can happen, minus flogging...

Well, Saudis still hold the bar high, with them giving 30+ years of prison and 500+ whips to people celebrating Valentine's day.

[Patroklos]

I get that they needed a slap on the wrist for being that public with their sex, but up to 15 years? Sex offender? Come on!

How would this be any different than flashing a playground? Sex offender is appropriate. This isn't an "I was pissing in a mostly concealed alley and a kid COULD have seen me do it if he happened to be roaming the bar district at 1am" situation. This is "I made a conscious decision to expose myself during broad daylight in a public fully open space in an unambiguously sexual manor while children were clearly present" situation.

[Borgholio]

There are a few details that merit pointing out here. First:

Because the charge in this case is a felony crime and occurred less than three years after Caballero's release from prison, the judge will have no choice but to give him the full 15-year prison sentence.

So the dude had a pre-existing felony record which makes this incident much worse than it would have been ordinarily for him.

The prosecuting attorney told The Miami Herald the couple declined an earlier opportunity to enter into a plea deal, which have likely resulted in much lighter sentences.

Unfortunately we're not privy to the terms of the plea deal, but given the circumstances of the pre-existing felony, it might have been worth considering...if they dropped to a misdemeanor indecent exposure or something like that.

As far as the sex offender part, I agree that is too much in either case. We have discussed on this board several times how taking a leak on a tree in public is *somehow* as bad as raping a 10 year old girl in the back of a van.

[Venator]

As far as the sex offender part, I agree that is too much in either case. We have discussed on this board several times how taking a leak on a tree in public is *somehow* as bad as raping a 10 year old girl in the back of a van.

Is there no grading system to the US sex offender registry? I had always assumed that "exposure to minors" or somesuch was filed in a way that threw up less red flags on a search than "raped a minor", even if it wasn't a distinction very visible to the general public.

[Patroklos]

There are tiers but they generally have to do with how long you will be on the registry and how onerous your compliance verification will be, both increasing with tier which is based on the severity and type of offence. As far as I can tell (in the states I just briefly looked at) those on the registry are treated roughly the same regardless of why they are on it as far as restrictions and community reporting goes.

[Borgholio]

Is there no grading system to the US sex offender registry? I had always assumed that "exposure to minors" or somesuch was filed in a way that threw up less red flags on a search than "raped a minor", even if it wasn't a distinction very visible to the general public.

I wasn't aware that you could ever get off the list. Every case I've heard about, you're on for life no matter what you did. Taking a leak on a public tree or being a 17 year old having sex with another 17 year old are both as bad as raping a young boy at summer camp. It's really quite unfair for those who are guilty of little more than misdemeanors in many cases.

[Patroklos]

The rules differ from state to state, but it appears you are a victim of hysteria. There are offences that get you lifetime registry but not all offenses get you a lifetime registry. I highly doubt public urination is one of them without extenuating circumstances (such as that being a repeat offence for instance). Or if it has to do with a child, the laws are very strict when a child is involved.

[Irbis]

How would this be any different than flashing a playground? Sex offender is appropriate. This isn't an "I was pissing in a mostly concealed alley and a kid COULD have seen me do it if he happened to be roaming the bar district at 1am" situation. This is "I made a conscious decision to expose myself during broad daylight in a public fully open space in an unambiguously sexual manor while children were clearly present" situation.

By 'broad daylight' you mean 'early morning in out of way corner' I saw in other articles documenting it? Even the one in OP claims at best 'several' people saw it and there would be no case without prudish, nosey grandma with a phone recording it to punish the evil criminals. Do tell me, how come somehow in normal nations it not only isn't a crime, doesn't traumatise anyone except fundies, but also happens to be taught in schools to spare children troubles later?

It might not be exactly decent behaviour and it could warrant some punishment, but straw-manning it into flashing a playground is almost as inane as calling 15 years sentence for it somehow fair.

So the dude had a pre-existing felony record which makes this incident much worse than it would have been ordinarily for him.

Only because someone insane decided to make indecent exposure a serious crime. I could understand fines, community service, or other similar grade punishment, but 15 years is indeed in Saudi Arabia territory.

[Joun_Lord]

This is pretty dumb on both sides. Giving 15 years to people for doing something that everyone does, except nerd according to mainstream society and gamers according to gaming journalists, on a beach where you can practically see everything anyway with the banana hammocks and ass floss people are wearing is dumb.

However it was also pretty dumb for this couple to shag on a crowded ass beach. I get wanting a thrill of public sex but maybe they should have done it a bit less public or put a towel over it, something. Even gone to a nude beach if there is one available, I'm relatively positive they have bans on photography.

15 fucking years though. I've heard of actual rapists and murderers who got less. Jesus.

[Borgholio]

Only because someone insane decided to make indecent exposure a serious crime. I could understand fines, community service, or other similar grade punishment, but 15 years is indeed in Saudi Arabia territory.

No it's just a dumb ass law intended to "scare" people straight. Here in California it's called Three Strikes. Means that if you commit two felonies and your third crime is a felony (no matter how slight), then you can go to prison for 25 years automatically. For example, assume some guy steals a car. It's grand theft auto...a felony. Let's say he does it again when he gets out of prison...second felony. Now let's say he steals a $300 laptop from a Best Buy. Prison for 25 years. But a laptop isn't nearly as bad as a grand theft...and nobody was hurt? Doesn't matter. It's still felony shoplifting if it's over a certain amount of money. So being his third felony, it's 25 years...even though he could plead that down to a misdemeanor and do community service if it was his first or second theft.

Now as for this guy, as the article says, this was not his first felony and thus he got whacked by the three-strikes book. Had this been JUST indecent exposure with no prior record, he probably could have gotten off easier. But again I have to stress that I disagree with making it a felony in the first place AND I disagree with the three-strikes idea. I just feel I need to point out that he did NOT get 15 years for indecent exposure by itself.

[Tribble]

Doesn't the US have the highest incarceration rate per capita in the world? With things like this, it doesn't come as much of a surprise.

[SilverDragonRed]

That, and overzealous prosecutors trying people again and again until they win just so they could add yet another notch to their records.

[Patroklos]

Please explain "trying people again and again." That is not actually possible.

[Block]

That, and overzealous prosecutors trying people again and again until they win just so they could add yet another notch to their records.

That's not a thing. You get one trial, unless there's some sort of mistrial due to misconduct on the defense's part.

[Ziggy Stardust]

By 'broad daylight' you mean 'early morning in out of way corner' I saw in other articles documenting it?

Not that I want to agree with the punishment being handed out, but watching the video online it clearly wasn't "early morning in out of way corner". The video you can see other people on the beach, not very far away from where the couple is having sex, and they are making no effort at say, putting a towel over them or anything else. The quality isn't good enough to tell time of day exactly, but it's bright enough that it's clearly late enough to be primary visiting hours to the beach. Hell, the women is topless, which in and of itself isn't legal on most beaches.

Again, the punishment is unnecessarily onerous. But you really can't make any excuses for the couple, who acted inappropriately. That said, I think the proper punishment is just a fine and community service type thing.

[salm]

I get that they needed a slap on the wrist for being that public with their sex, but up to 15 years? Sex offender? Come on!

How would this be any different than flashing a playground? Sex offender is appropriate. This isn't an "I was pissing in a mostly concealed alley and a kid COULD have seen me do it if he happened to be roaming the bar district at 1am" situation. This is "I made a conscious decision to expose myself during broad daylight in a public fully open space in an unambiguously sexual manor while children were clearly present" situation.

Intent obviously. One of the two is pretty clearly an act of pedophelia whereas the other is most likely not.

[FTeik]

Doesn't the US have the highest incarceration rate per capita in the world? With things like this, it doesn't come as much of a surprise.

If there aren't enough convictions, the prison-industry will go bankrupt. I also heard 80% of the inmates are black or hispanic, so we are basically looking at the re-introduction of slavery through the backdoor.