Florida man shoots thug in self-defence

[Aether]

[quote="loomer"]

It is actually an objective test, not a subjective test. And yes, frankly, it involves some subjective criteria, but it boils down to this: Would a normal, rational, everyday person fear for their life at the time of the assault? Was this fear immediate? Was there no alternative means of egress or intervention? Was the force used proportionate to the threat, and did it stop when the threat did?

My interpretation of Rouge's point was "given the same circumstances, would another person do the same" which is subjective in my opinion. Just because you would have reacted the same does not mean it is justifiable. Going back and reading what Rouge wrote, it seems I made a mistake with what was trying to be said.

Regardless, you turn around and add similar questions I posed earlier.

[loomer]

The test isn't 'would you?' It's 'would the everyday, average, unexceptional man - the man on the clapham omnibus - in every regards do the same or believe that doing the same was a reasonable thing?'

The 'reasonable person' is not any actual person. It is a legal construct designed purely to answer the questions of if an act was reasonable, and there is a lot of case law interpreting just what is, and is not, reasonable under a circumstance. Trying to use it as a purely subjective test fails instantly as it has exactly no regard to the specific mindset of the people involved, only what the artificial man on the omnibus would think.

[Flagg]

They were Neo Nazi's? I must have missed that, but that would change the entire dynamic. You got 4 against 2 and the 4 are Nazi's, the 2 are "minorities" and Mr. Williams (the black guy) dodged a punch and shot the stupid motherfucker making the bull charge at him and the very fact that they are Neo-Nazi's and he is black totally absolves him of any legal reprisal for lethal action he took against any of them acting aggressively towards him or even other minorities within, or outside of, the restaurant. And that's not a kneejerk "RAAAR NAZI BAAAAAD!" reaction.

The history of the various Neo-Nazi, Ku Klux Klan, and various other "White Power" organizations known to be extremely violent in the past, especially in an incidence like this, where they go inside the 'Waffle House' and begin taunting the 2 minorities in the place, clearly trying to piss them off so one will take the bait and get angry with them and talks right back. Their goal is to get one or both of them to either come outside and get jumped, or if still in the 'Waffle House' to make Mr. Williams at least appear to be an aggressor or to even get him to throw the first punch. What they didn't realize is that their target had some claws and was willing to use them, and now there's one less Neo-Nazi fuck sucking air. It's just too bad he didn't get all 4.

And again, this isn't just a "fuck the Neo-Nazi motherfuckers" thing (But it is a "fuck the Neo-Nazi motherfuckers" thing). Neo Nazi's, really any racist skinhead (now, there are non-racist skinhead sub-cultures. I feel like they should get a general shout-out because most are made up of wonderful people that do not now, have not in the past, and will certainly never hate anyone because of anything they haven't chosen to do and be, like a fucking racist piece of shit Neo Nazi and cannot stand the fact that "Skinhead" has come to be pretty much synonymous with "Neo Nazi Racist", and because of that, unfortunately, those subcultures are disappearing because no one wants anyone to think they are a racist Neo-Nazi fuck, except a stupid, racist Neo-Nazi fuck. Some are actually ex-Neo-Nazi racists who "got out" with modified and erased tattoos and try to identify Neo-Nazi's that are getting sick of the "movement" because they've realized it's all a bullshit method of control and they direct the rage of damaged kids towards bullshit pipe dreams of "White Power" a "Race War" and "Revolution Against The Jew-Run Government", shit that isn't even true and will never happen, but gets the gang leader another moron to get hooked on and sell drugs for him (usually meth and/or pot) or beat up the "N***ers" and/or w****cks that are in territory the Neo-Nazi's consider theirs to control and sell drugs on, or to take territory they may consider a good spot to sell at.

There's absolutely no fucking difference between them and any other gang except they'll target any "minority" (while other gangs focus only on business and unless they are the really ruthless bastards like from Columbia (who will kill your entire fucking family, in some cases ending entire bloodlines over tens of thousands of dollars stolen) or whoever they hate the most this week or just an easy target out alone, with a few women, or a single friend. And if you're the "lucky" chosen one(s) they will beat the ever-loving shit out of you, sometimes causing temporary damage, sometimes causing lasting damage, and sometimes causing permanent, crippling damage unless they just beat you to death. Or they may, if they have an audience, beat on you until you can't even get up on your hands and knees, then curb stomp you. That's when the inhuman cocksuckers put your upper teeth and mouth on the top of a curb, and stomp on top of, or kick the back of your head, which will most of the time "just" shatter your teeth and break your jaw as well as maybe parts of your face. But sometimes it breaks your neck leaving you paralyzed or even dead. And sometimes your skull and face are crushed and your brains shoot out your ears and your eyes pop out with more brain following.

You shoot one of those motherfuckers in self-defense and you should get a Medal and a $50,000 reward.

[Joun_Lord]

I don't think these douches in der waffle haus were actually Neo-Nazis, though its easy to see where one might think they were. I brought up our favorite skin headed slimeballs as an example of someone highly objectionable that I still wouldn't want to shoot unless I had to.

I can understand how someone can get into the mindset, how a normally decent person can turn into a hate filled piece of shit. Their friends and family will program them to hate, they will have no opposing viewpoints and assume that shit is normal, and their location will leave them isolated from minorities. Any encounters with minorities with more often then be bad, mostly because of their attitude. Even if the majority of encounters are relatively positive they will self-edit their memory to only remember the negative. Its much like how someone with a bone to pick with welfare recipients will only remember the person checking out at a grocery store with food stamps with a shopping cart full of steak and lobster or someone who hates the homeless will only remember the homeless people who whip out iPhones when no one is looking and thats if they even actually remember that or have altered their memories to fit their shitbag narrative.

But people do get out of that shit. Much like many homophobes may change their tune when they encounter actual gay people or just when they get out from under the thumb of their toxic culture, so can racist ass Neo-Nazis.

I mean I myself when growing up had a racist bent in elementary school. I was growing up in an extremely rural area with my mind polluted by racist bastards like y stepfather and my school mates. This was further compounded by the fact I rarely had any good encounters with non-whites when I would go to the big old city of Charleston what with them tall glass building with their moving rooms. Plus it didn't help I thought Nazis looked badass.

Only when I actually moved away from the rural area, away from my stepfather by way of 12 gauge to the face (a long story), and was around minorites long enough to actually see them as people instead of walking caricatures and got around some internet that unlike text books and books I had access to before that didn't gloss over the horrors the Nazi's perpetrated.

Because of my own earlier experiences with such bullshit I understand stereotyping even racists much like they would minorities is equally stupid. Racists are people who can change. And I feel the same way about gang members and the like, they grew up in a culture and were programmed to do what they do much like I was programmed to be a hateful little cunt with a shaved head.

If I can change, if I can grow my hair out and even go through a Jedi ponytail phase, so could racist mofo and gang members.

Thus is why I'd prefer not to kill any if given the chance. That could have very well been me on the other side of the gun if I had stayed where I was or if I had been born with another skin color in another location.

[Xisiqomelir]

Here is the police report. Dozens of pages, but very entertaining.

[Lonestar]

This got a lot of play on Reddit's firearms subs.

But, you know, the antis here and elsewhere go "hurr but where are the pro-gun people?" whenever this happens. Because it's too hard to check social media.