Purple wrote:Imperial Overlord wrote:That's very nice hairsplitting, but that doesn't change the fact that both movements are misogynist that hold women in contempt and regard feminism as an enemy to be destroyed. Stalinists and Trotskiest killed each other over ideological differences over what constituted true communism, but their mutual hatred didn't make that different as far as the rest of us are concerned. Rodgers, as you point out, slipped between PUA and anti-PUA but the entitlement and misogyny he felt remained the same.
You do know that there are strains of feminism that are composed entirely of man haters who would just as easily have us all castrated or killed or turned into second class citizens? Yes, of course they are a massive minority. But if we use your logic we can say that this group existing means all feminism is composed out of man haters. Anything else would for you be as you put it "hair splitting".
Here is the problem.
Feminism as an ideology does not lend itself to violent fanaticism. It lends itself to angry intellectual rants on tumblr, well-meant but sometimes annoying vocabulary policing (from the particularly extremist ones), and sarcastic coffee mugs that say "Male Tears". With "Male" referring to the power structure of patriarchy, rather than actual men. The most extreme they get is to sometimes slip into engaging in the fundamental attribution error, and get into mild conspiracy theory territory as a result (and sometimes they are even right, because there actually is a concerted effort to deny women choice over their own reproduction in the US). There are TERFS, but they are driven by a combination of bastardized 2nd wave feminism (from the bad parts of the 1970s) and transphobia, and a different beast ideologically speaking, from the rest of feminism. A splinter group everyone else hates because they are assholes.
The PUA movement is fundamentally about being entitled to sex from women, and using manipulation and psychological abuse to get it.
The MRA movement is fundamentally misogynist, with
public fucking pledges to always vote no when rape charges come before a jury they happen to be on. The default position is Loony Conspiracy Theory (one of AVfM's regular contributors is also a holocaust denier, if that is any indication).
Return of the Kings... they're just rapists and aspiring rapists
All three of those are fundamentally insane, and to one extent or another, violent. The beliefs held by their "moderates" are of the degree of madness held by the "radical subsets" of other groups.
The radicals of other groups have to twist and bend the base ideology to avoid cognitive dissonance, a radical aficionado of Return of the Kings just has to take the group ideology to its logical conclusion to bring a sex slave in from Thailand and keep her alternating between the kitchen and his personal rape dungeon. a PUA with an actual girlfriend does not have to twist PUAism to psychologically abuse his girlfriend. He was using attenuated versions of the same techniques to get her home the day they met. An MRA... they campaign against legal, policy, and practical protections for female victims of domestic violence on the grounds that most allegations are false because women are evil bitches. Do the fucking math.
