The Thunderbirds Reboot

[Eternal_Freedom]

Makes me wonder why TB5 is a one man show, if it's more or less unknown for a morning to go by without a rescue being needed, how does he ever find time to sleep?

Something that occurred to me, which maybe someone with more space knowledge could explain, when you have space stations with rotating sections how is it that the rotating section rotates and the rest of the station does not? Is it down to the relative masses of the two sections?

IIRC it's partly down to the relative masses, but usually you would want two seperate rotating sections going in opposite directions. But only having one looks more "normal" I geuss.

Anyway, the design of TB5 has been bothering me for a while and this episode finally shows why. The rotating section passes through part of the hull leading to the airlock. That means you have to stop the rotation exactly, line up the pressure doors between rotating and non-rotating sections perfectly and then open them just to get someone into the station's main area. Which seems overly complicated and prone to failure.

There is also the already mentioned lack of manual overrides for the airlock, the fact that you can speed up the rotation by a factor of three or four at least and so on.

Also, that pressure suit John is wearing? That's waaaay too small.

[bilateralrope]

But what happened to the engineers of this world?

Even TB5 is a deathtrap. And apparently the only communications link to IR unless they switch manually to a backup.

Apparently human life is cheap. Risking lives to cut costs has become normal and/or everyone is just far too trusting of software solutions.

The gravity ring? It can go multiple Gs high enough to force a physically fit human into lying flat on the ground.

An off the shelf motor that could spin the ring faster than necessary was probably cheaper than a custom motor that couldn't.

The walk-on glass? If the gravity ring goes multiple Gs a human body can become heavy enough to crack it.

Weaker glass is cheaper.

The airlocks? NO MANUAL OVERRIDE ON THE OUTSIDE! And the airlock switch can be electrified by the central computer.

Again, the manual override is an added expense.

[NecronLord]

Why would you have a manual override on the outside of TB5 and no security mechanisms? They have a mass-murderer with a personal interest in harming and defeating them, called the Hood. You might have noticed him.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I would think that the benefits of a manual override on the outside of an airlock would be obvious given that there is only one person aboard who goes outside with only, what, 20+ minutes of oxygen in his suit?

The danger of the Hood getting there is a possibility, but IIRC TB5 and International Resuce itself was built before they even knew about the Hood.

[biostem]

Many elements of the most recent episode lead me to believe that the writers can't come up with more believable ways to build tension. You go to the effort to show the station attendant, (sorry, I don't really care enough about each individual Tracy to remember their first names), tether himself when going to work on some part of the station, which is cool, but then you tell me he goes out there with only about 20 mins of air? They apparently have no counter-intrusion software or failsafes to prevent things like the ring accelerating to multiple G's? There isn't even any emergency orbit-surface escape pod/shuttle - what if TB3 gets taken out and they need to rescue the Tracy in TB5?

[Lone Browncoat]

Also, that running gag with Granny and ther bad cooking gets annoying already. Just force her to eat her own cooking, boys.
If she likes it, you know somethings wrong with her.
If she reacts like you she might realize her Death-By-Cookie attacks on her family.

That what bugs me, they did a total 180 on her.
I've been viewing some of the classics and Granny is actually a great cook, especially for the boys in "Cry Wolf".
Now the changes from Tin-Tin to Kayo is a more modern perspective on female characters, that's she's been
learning all along from living with the Tracys' [BTW where is Kyrano? missing with Jeff?] and not to be confused with that other Tin Tin.
She is still hiding the fact that the Hood is her uncle.

Edit: TB5; Maybe that's Scotty's transparent aluminium, or with a twisting of atoms, even transparent steel or some other substance.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Urgh fuck. Today's episode is proving fairly appaling, even though I'm only half-way through.

They go to the trouble of using a named asteroid, 21 Lutetia, but it's apparently within Venus' orbit, when 21 Lutetia in reality doesn't come closer than 2 AU to the sun, it doesn't have a molten core, a massive solar flare wouldn't have that effect, and even if the asteroid was sunward of Earth, they wouldn't nee to accelerate away from Earth to get there, rather decelerate to shed Earth's orbital velocity.

They go to all that trouble of including (mostly) correct physics (like having to decelerate before arriving at the asteroid, a slingshot etc, using named asteroids, and then fuck it up for supposed drama.

Incidentally, apparently TB3 uses an "Ion fusion engine." This also might explain what all those ships were doing in orbit a few episodes ago (the one with the rogue mine).

Oh, and apparently TB5 has some way to get John back to Tracey Island without using TB3. And the mining outpost has an arsenal full of nukes. Naturally.

[Lone Browncoat]

I'll have to download it this evening, I guess that is what you did as you say "I'm only half-way through"?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yeah. And honestly, the quality doesn't really improve in the latter half. Is it exciting? Yes. Is it even remotely plausible? Nope.

[Lone Browncoat]

Well, I'm not an astronomer, at least not knowing the catalogue of floating objects in the solar system, just know, like you said, that those small bodies would have cooled off aeons ago. Though yes, it is exciting to watch.
Apparently TB5 here has an auxiliary craft.

[bilateralrope]

Apparently TB5 here has an auxiliary craft.

Which is lowered to the surface by a cable. Which last episode made it clear that TB5 isn't in geostationary orbit.

I spent this episode laughing at what they got wrong. Which left me enjoying this episode more than previous ones.

[NecronLord]

Urgh fuck. Today's episode is proving fairly appaling, even though I'm only half-way through.

They go to the trouble of using a named asteroid, 21 Lutetia, but it's apparently within Venus' orbit, when 21 Lutetia in reality doesn't come closer than 2 AU to the sun,

Moving the asteroid closer to earth - and eventually into orbit - is proposed in several asteroid mining schemes

it doesn't have a molten core,

Unknown but the European Space Agency thinks it might have. So no, the show gets this one.

a massive solar flare wouldn't have that effect, and even if the asteroid was sunward of Earth, they wouldn't nee to accelerate away from Earth to get there, rather decelerate to shed Earth's orbital velocity.

No.

When you can travel interplanetary inside of a day, you don't need to worry about such things, you are flying a torchship (as indeed they basically say TB3 here is) and you use brachistochrone trajectories, IE you point the nose at the destination and fire the rocket while laughing at the puny influence of planetary and stellar masses. Such delicate orbital manoeuvrings are slow. Thunderbird 3 is presumably intended to be fast and there's no reason it'd do any such thing when it obviously has incredible jaw-dropping acceleration speed. A rescue ship with torchship capabilities isn't going to piss about using transfer orbits.

The math won't hold up in this episode, that much is obvious. But on this, the show is right and you're wrong.

I direct you to Atomic Rockets' page on torchships which has an Earth-Mercury torchship trip of a week (incidentally this is vaguely in the ballpark of the non-Thunderbird rescue ships talked about) illustrated as a brachistochrone journey.

As they call Thunderbird 3 a fusion-driven ship, they get to do this and have it be actually the correct way for it to move.

They go to all that trouble of including (mostly) correct physics (like having to decelerate before arriving at the asteroid, a slingshot etc, using named asteroids, and then fuck it up for supposed drama.

Incidentally, apparently TB3 uses an "Ion fusion engine." This also might explain what all those ships were doing in orbit a few episodes ago (the one with the rogue mine).

Oh, and apparently TB5 has some way to get John back to Tracey Island without using TB3. And the mining outpost has an arsenal full of nukes. Naturally.

Why is that even remotely exceptional to you? Atomic mining charges have existed in real life (operation plowshare) and have been proposed for asteroid mining.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ok I'll concede those except for the nukes thing, the possibility of a molten core is not something I had heard of before. The guy says one of them will crack an asteroid, so why does he have dozens?

Also, yeah, I know moving the asteroid closer to Earth orbit is an idea, and a cool one. But why move it even closer to the sun? That one doesn't make sense.

[Lone Browncoat]

Episode 10 is available for download.

[NecronLord]

Bit of a note on the above, it's not a strict Brachistochrone (it doesn't continuously accelerate) but the point about it clearly having the acceleration to just point the nose and go stands.

As for the mines, well they're presumably fusion charges (as uranium mines were shut down as per a previous episode) and therefore are very likely to be dial-a-yield. So presumably for most of his mining work he doesn't have them cranked up to maximum boom.

[Lone Browncoat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbir ... _series%29

[Bedlam]

Just saw this weeks episode and well I'm not an expert but wouldn't 25g's be rather fatal? Why do they even build it to be able to go that high?

[tezunegari]

Just saw this weeks episode and well I'm not an expert but wouldn't 25g's be rather fatal? Why do they even build it to be able to go that high?

40+ seconds between Brains "25 G" and John hitting the brake.

John should be toast.

A 25 G acceleration can be survived if it is short. 0.01 to 0.02 seconds or thereabouts.

Apparently the Tracy's aren't even trying to hide their identities in this one.
Fishler: "Two doors on an airlock, Mr. Tracy. That's a bit excessive, don't you think?"

At least that idiot lost his space operation permit.

[biostem]

This episode would have been a perfect opportunity to have Eos actually step in - have the event play out like this:

John: We can use the rotating portion of the station to reel in the capsule, but the controls are in the ring section.

Eos: I can access the controls remotely - you need to get to the central part of the station or you'll be crushed.

John: We don't have much time! I'll make my way there, but you have to start spinning it up now.

Eos: In order to reach the proper rotational speed, it'll get to 4 G's before you reach the hatch.

John: Start the rotation! I'll just have to manage.

[Queue dramatic music as John struggles against the increasing G forces, culminating in his helmet being left behind and being crushed, just as he makes it through the hatch to the zero-G central hub]

[tezunegari]

There is just one teensy little problem with that.
Access to the Zero-G Core and the Drop Pod is only possible when the gravity ring is at standstill.

[biostem]

There is just one teensy little problem with that.
Access to the Zero-G Core and the Drop Pod is only possible when the gravity ring is at standstill.

Ah. Well, either way, it seemed like a perfect time to further develop Eos as a character, at at least have her take an active part in the rescue process - if she could fully control teh station, then she could surely assist John...

[bilateralrope]

But a good AI doesn't take control of the station. That's something only a bad AI would do.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is what the writers think.

Or maybe the writer of this episode was only told about EOS after the script was mostly finished. Looking on wikipedia I notice that the only writer to write more than one episode is Rob Hoegee. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the writers aren't talking to each other much and the whole show is produced under the assumption that kids won't care about low quality, so there is no reason for anyone involved in producing it to care either.

[TOSDOC]

John's G-force tolerance aside, I couldn't help thinking Scott is incredibly strong too, to be able to hang onto that grappling gun at that altitude. The focus of the episode was swamped with safety issues, so why not have him use a tether by example?

[biostem]

That scientist, as cheap and careless as he was, I could at least write him off as crazy. What I couldn't understand, given how stingy and careless he was portrayed as being, was that those 2 other people would agree to accompany him. They were given no characterization, so I suppose it's hard say.

I wonder if that guy paid someone off in order to get the permits to carry out the experiment - I recall a mention that said permits wouldn't be renewed as a result of the accident...

[TOSDOC]

Tonight on Thunderbirds Are Go, it's American Chopper!