Skyrim Questions

[Lord Revan]

Due to various reason I started Skyrim again (I never got it done the first time I tried it), but I a few questions

First at what level would you recomend I'd start doing the thieves guild quests (I'm planning to play a sort of sneaky Almer char (with possibly a bit magical ability))?

Also should I do thieves guild before or after the Dawnguard quests?

Third should I do the Dragonborn DLC missions ASAP or can I wait until I'm done with the main story for that?

[TheFeniX]

Basically: doesn't matter, with the exception of Dragonborn as I haven't done it, even though I own it (so I don't know for sure). Skyrim is pretty hard level-synced so you only really run into issues if you've gimped your build or and sometimes only for a bit once you first hit that level "bracket." From what I know, it isn't as bad as some other Beth games, a dungeon might be "leveled synced" from a minimum of 10 to a max of 20. But the game tries not to throw stuff at you you can't handle.

If you're high enough level to have the Cultists show up, you're high enough and/or far enough along in the main quest to do Dragonborn. Same with any other quests. But some of them are level locked to keep you from getting awesome stuff "too early," such as the Daedra quest weapons.

I would recommend to do most of the vanilla content first as even Dawnguard hooks you up with some pretty powerful shit. Also, don't know if you've done it but the Dark Brotherhood quest put pretty much everything else to shame for vanilla. Dawnguard is carried by Serana (Laura Bailey - HNNNNG), but is still pretty good.

Honestly, with a lot of content: I would say early the better. Before you've had a chance to hit some levels and just break the Hell out of the game.

[Lord Revan]

Tbh Dark Brotherhood doesn't seem like it would fitting for the style of character I want to play, she's not Thalmor so killing for "shits and giggles" doesn't really suit her.

btw where would Lydia be after she gets swapped for another companion (I assume you won't loose her permannently)?

[TheFeniX]

The Dark Brotherhood has a hard break in it that would fit your character. I don't want to spoil to much, but you won't shed any tears over what you have to do to start the questline. From there, you can decide want you want to be. Just go talk to Aventino in Windhelm and/or ask around for rumors until someone tells you about him.

If you own Breezehome (Whiterun player home), Lydia will head there when you dismiss her. If not, she will be right around the entrance to Dragonsreach Keep (the foyer as you enter). She's essential so you don't ever have to worry about her dieing on her way home.

[Lord Revan]

I intend to Breezehome get ASAP but 5000 septims is not exactly pocket change at the start (towards the end sure but I just got started) as it gives me a place to stash all the dragon bones and other high level crafting mats I get.

[Darth Nostril]

Are you on console or PC? If PC get Mod Organizer, it sandboxes all your mods so no vital files get overwritten.

As FeniX said start the Aventino quest in Windhelm, it has a satisfying resolution to the Dark Brotherhood if you're playing a character with a moral code.

Do all the main questlines before Dawnguard because it does give you some serious firepower that would unbalance earlier stuff. Ditto with Dragonborn, you gain access to powers and resources that would make regular quests too easy.

I was about to say just play them in release order then it occurred to me that you need the Elder Scroll from the MQ to complete Dawnguard anyway. So DG must come after the MQ, no way round it.

[Darth Nostril]

Haul back everything you can carry, the blacksmith in Whiterun is good for a couple of thousand gold, the apocathery and general stores can net you a few hundred more, and you can sell any food you pick up at the market or the inn.
Then go back to the dungeons you just cleared and pick up everything you left behind. Also pay the carriage at the stables to take you to all the Hold capitols, you can then fast travel to them and sell after you cleaned out the merchants in Whiterun.
Rinse and repeat. Don't forget the merchants in Riverwood.
You'll get 5000 in no time.

[Darth Nostril]

Missed the edit window.

If you're not ready to advance the MQ just yet and you've got Hearthfires installed don't go as far as killing the dragon at West Watchtower, get the Dragonstone from the Barrows above Riverwood but don't go back to Dragonsreach, when you reach level 9 IIRC you'll get a letter from the Jarl of Falksreath, go see him do all the sidequests to become Thane, buy the plot of land at Lakeview, build the basic house and you can dump all your loot there for the time being. Spend time exploring and levelling up then get back into the MQ.
Don't forget to harvest flowers etc as you wander around, even blue mountain flowers are worth one gold apiece to an alchemist and there's a shitload of them out there.

[Lord Revan]

Missed the edit window.

If you're not ready to advance the MQ just yet and you've got Hearthfires installed don't go as far as killing the dragon at West Watchtower, get the Dragonstone from the Barrows above Riverwood but don't go back to Dragonsreach, when you reach level 9 IIRC you'll get a letter from the Jarl of Falksreath, go see him do all the sidequests to become Thane, buy the plot of land at Lakeview, build the basic house and you can dump all your loot there for the time being. Spend time exploring and levelling up then get back into the MQ.
Don't forget to harvest flowers etc as you wander around, even blue mountain flowers are worth one gold apiece to an alchemist and there's a shitload of them out there.

Killed that dragon already but I can make due and tbh it's not so much not wanting to proceed in the main quest as it's wanting to do some stuff first before going to some of the more harder parts of the main quest ,like that damn Thalmor embassy (ironically even though my character is Altmer she seems to have Thalmor almost as much as the nords).

EDIT:I did get a horse though so I can overburden myself without walking back taking forever.

[Grumman]

Third should I do the Dragonborn DLC missions ASAP or can I wait until I'm done with the main story for that?

Visiting the island and doing sidequests is fine, but don't continue the Dragonborn main quests beyond that point until you've got a nice surplus of dragon souls.
Spoiler

The reason for this is that while you can travel back and forth whenever you want, the big bad of the Dragonborn DLC starts kill-stealing you once you progress past a certain point in his quest. You still get *some* dragon souls, and you get all the stolen souls back when you finish the questline, but in the meantime it is a pain in the ass.

[TheFeniX]

I intend to Breezehome get ASAP but 5000 septims is not exactly pocket change at the start (towards the end sure but I just got started) as it gives me a place to stash all the dragon bones and other high level crafting mats I get.

Find a pickaxe and hit up some mines, or buy ingots. Improve the gear you find with smithing, put bullshit enchants on them. It ups the sell price so you need fewer items to wipe out a vendor's gold stash. It also levels you while you earn hordes of gold.

Honestly though, I fell in love with (an older version of) Riverside Lodge long ago and never visit any of the houses I own. Watch out though since it and other housing mods usually have enough clutter laying around that's worth thousands and can get you set for gold way too early.

If you do decide to mod, I recommend MO like Nostril mentioned. However, if modding feels overwhelming, the Nexus Mod Manager isn't as terrible as people make it out to be and is pretty good for loading a few choice mods. I still use it even though people call it the devil. Many mods now are as easy as downloading directly to the Manager, then clicking the install button.

Main thing I recommend is push the MQ till you get Dragonrend because fighting dragons is stupidly annoying without it. But just dicking around doing side-quests and clearing out dungeons while avoiding dragon fights if they engage in a poor area can be pretty fun.

[Lagmonster]

It occurs to me that I have never played a Bethesda sandbox game where I was not modded and edited into an invulnerable god from the get-go, because apparently I appreciate teenage male power fantasies way more than heroic struggles.

[Lord Revan]

I spent several (real world) hours getting from Whiterun to Riften as constantly going "what's over there" and going on on tangents (I guess it was my ADHD acting up "ok riften is that way, so if I go this way then... what there, oohh shiny!") (granted there was few times of walking quite a distance to prevent my horse getting killed (I was also overburdened so no running or sprinting) and once I lost Lydia so I went back to Whiterun to check if she was there, she was not but thank fully I found her in the fort I had cleared.

[TheFeniX]

It occurs to me that I have never played a Bethesda sandbox game where I was not modded and edited into an invulnerable god from the get-go, because apparently I appreciate teenage male power fantasies way more than heroic struggles.

I played legit through Skyrim once. I had mods like Bandit War Parties, but nothing that just gave me a bunch of cool stuff, nor would I use armor mods that offered high-stats with low quality mats. Back then, it was actually easy to find mods that said "NEW ARMOR: Steel stats." Now it's actually harder because people just don't care about breaking the game anymore. Since my character was an assassin, it was actually quite difficult in all the open engagements required in the MQ. Until I just started kiting with the bow.

However, towards the end I just buffed my smithing and enchanting stats and perks with the console because I had metric tons of gold and I think it was dumb Beth didn't make either of those available from NPCs. Seriously, why the shit can't a blacksmith upgrade my weapons and armor?

I spent several (real world) hours getting from Whiterun to Riften as constantly going "what's over there" and going on on tangents (I guess it was my ADHD acting up "ok riften is that way, so if I go this way then... what there, oohh shiny!") (granted there was few times of walking quite a distance to prevent my horse getting killed (I was also overburdened so no running or sprinting) and once I lost Lydia so I went back to Whiterun to check if she was there, she was not but thank fully I found her in the fort I had cleared.

I didn't know carriages worked in Skyrim until I made that first trek to Riften. Reminded me of when I was past "Spoony Bard" in FFIV before I opened the manual and found out you had to hold L and R to run away from battles. That said, I try to avoid using fast travel at all if I can. Honestly wish they had included, or someone offered a mod, with for random encounters. They happen in Skyrim (and other FPS Fallout games), but they can't happen when fast traveling.

With fast travel, you can miss out on some of the crazy shit that happens in Random Encounter locations. Also, why not explore? Gameplay shouldn't all be measured by the set locations the developer wants you to go to.

[Lord Revan]

IMHO fast travel is nice when you just to go from point A to Point A without anything to deal with the 10000th roadside brigand who thinks he can imidate a guy who is essentially a walking armory with weapons and armor that are at the very least extremly rare in whole of Tamriel not just Skyrim and possibly even unique and that's assuming you get recognized as the Dragonborn (you know the guy who even the dragons fear).

atm I'm playing totally unmodded but I might get things like better player skins or stuff like that that makes the game better looking and fix issues with the UI but nothing that would break the game by being too good.

[Lagmonster]

IMHO fast travel is nice when you just to go from point A to Point A without anything to deal with the 10000th roadside brigand who thinks he can imidate a guy who is essentially a walking armory with weapons and armor that are at the very least extremly rare in whole of Tamriel not just Skyrim and possibly even unique and that's assuming you get recognized as the Dragonborn (you know the guy who even the dragons fear).

I gained new respect for the banditry of Tamriel once I realized that they legit have the balls of champions. You stride into battle against god-dragons equipped with armour forged in the fires of Oblivion itself and wielding a sword moaning with the souls of conquered kings in one hand and the ability to spew almighty fire in the other, but HE'S the dude who thinks nothing of taking a swing at you OR said god-dragon OR both, while wearing a hide vest and swinging an iron axe held together with duck entrails, and he does this every time no matter the odds. You tell me who's got more guts.

[Vendetta]

On the other hand, the roadside mugger bandits often get to do the Bethesda Thing where they lock you in place and steal your camera controls and zoom in whilst they stand motionless and attempt to threaten you for a hundred gold or whatever petty sum sounded like a reasonable "bandit" encounter to some prat of a designer.

The wildlife of skyrim is just as insanely fearless but at least a troll doesn't attempt to engage you in conversation before getting its face hacked off.

Ah well, at least they're not flagged as essential, Bethesda seem to have a knack for writing characters as if they know the player can't kill them and are determined to be as insufferable as possible as a result. (also known as Mayor Macready syndrome)

[TheFeniX]

I gained new respect for the banditry of Tamriel once I realized that they legit have the balls of champions. You stride into battle against god-dragons equipped with armour forged in the fires of Oblivion itself and wielding a sword moaning with the souls of conquered kings in one hand and the ability to spew almighty fire in the other, but HE'S the dude who thinks nothing of taking a swing at you OR said god-dragon OR both, while wearing a hide vest and swinging an iron axe held together with duck entrails, and he does this every time no matter the odds. You tell me who's got more guts.

Skyrim bandits are smalltime in that regard as they could still possibly kill you and are usually level/gear scaled anyways. Nothing compared to walking around the wasteland in full Power Armor wielding a Plasma Rifle while bandits rushed you with spiked bats and rubber tires for armor. IIRC Fallout 3 Armor Rating was a static reduction, meaning they couldn't even hurt you. Skyrim's is a percentage based one, AND has a cap of around 80-someodd-%.

"Please! MERCY!......... You'll be so much easier to rob when you're dead."

Still, never gets old to hear "SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!" as you cut their head off in a killmove cinematic. Even better sometimes when the death groans override the sound-bite and it cuts the dialog off. Have fun in Sovngarde asshole.

Ah well, at least they're not flagged as essential, Bethesda seem to have a knack for writing characters as if they know the player can't kill them and are determined to be as insufferable as possible as a result. (also known as Mayor Macready syndrome)

You sir, are fined 5 credits for violation of the "never make FeniX remember Little Lamplight" law. Dear God, when I found out you couldn't kill children in F3, I was like "meh, whatever. Who wants to kill children anyways?" Now I know why. I KNOW WHY!

[Lord Revan]

Still, never gets old to hear "SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!" as you cut their head off in a killmove cinematic. Even better sometimes when the death groans override the sound-bite and it cuts the dialog off. Have fun in Sovngarde asshole.

this reminds a kind silly encounter I had with an Argonian bandit on the road to Riften I looked that there was something in the distance not knowing what I dismounted as a mage enemy could easily kill my horse (and I'm normally cronically overburdened a horse is pretty vital) so I start to sneak towards him to see if I can pickpocket him (well I got train sometimes and who care about some bandits) but I get noticed and he charges towards so I do a power attack and get a scene where the bändit gets impaled on my greatsword while screaming "Don't you dare run away".

then there was this orc briband who desided to charge me with 2 hander thru a narrow long corridor while I was armed with a bow and had just shot his buddy, needless to say he took an arrow to the knee (well actually not, it hit him in the crotch and nearly fliped him over from impact).

[Vendetta]

Skyrim bandits are smalltime in that regard as they could still possibly kill you and are usually level/gear scaled anyways. Nothing compared to walking around the wasteland in full Power Armor wielding a Plasma Rifle while bandits rushed you with spiked bats and rubber tires for armor. IIRC Fallout 3 Armor Rating was a static reduction, meaning they couldn't even hurt you. Skyrim's is a percentage based one, AND has a cap of around 80-someodd-%.

Fallout 3 had percentage reduction with the same 85% cap. It's literally the same damage system. Trouble was that at high levels you had buckets of HP and 85% damage reduction so nothing was ever a challenge unless it was using one of the cheating weapons (some weapons had extra bonus damage which ignored armour but only when they were used on the player to compensate for how much of a walking tank the player was at high levels, because Bethesda couldn't balance for shit)

New Vegas had flat damage reduction but the available armour was generally much worse with even full power armour only getting DT of about 35 odd.

[TheFeniX]

then there was this orc briband who desided to charge me with 2 hander thru a narrow long corridor while I was armed with a bow and had just shot his buddy, needless to say he took an arrow to the knee (well actually not, it hit him in the crotch and nearly fliped him over from impact).

Shield Charge has probably the most options for brutal hilarity as you charge through narrow corridors knocking people over like bowling pins. The game is rife with unexpected hilarity, none of it intended. Worst is getting ragdolled out of the map, but Skyrim (I think via patch, don't remember it on release) will port you to the cell start location if that happens. Leads to more hilarity as the mobs all beeline (a la Doom 1 style) as they still track where you are unless you stealth.

It's a shame the games have such gimped AI, but it can create even more hilarity.

Fallout 3 had percentage reduction with the same 85% cap. It's literally the same damage system. Trouble was that at high levels you had buckets of HP and 85% damage reduction so nothing was ever a challenge unless it was using one of the cheating weapons (some weapons had extra bonus damage which ignored armour but only when they were used on the player to compensate for how much of a walking tank the player was at high levels, because Bethesda couldn't balance for shit)

I'll take your word on it, I played F3 during my "computer too old, so 360 time" stint in gaming and recall numerous instances of getting pelted with .308 rifle rounds and not even seeing my HP drop one pip. Then after I VATSed my way to numerous headshots at the draw distance, there'd almost always be one last guy trying to beat me to death with a bat. I might be mixing up older fallouts though as I recall different armor stats, one acting like Hardened Armor from Shadorun (thus negating damage under a certain power) and one that reduces any leftover damage.

Playing console games puts me in a "fuck it, whatever" mentality. It's weird.

But yea, Point Lookout had to be the worst case of Beth failing to balance. Hicks armed with shotguns and it's magic ~16 automatic penetration damage was really stupid. And don't get me started on the bugged Glowing Ones.

Still, game had some great moments. Such as finding a flailing teddy bear in a shopping cart on my way to rescue "dad." Rough fight.

New Vegas had flat damage reduction but the available armour was generally much worse with even full power armour only getting DT of about 35 odd.

I need to replay through New Vegas. That and actually beat Oblivion. Gotta mod out the potato heads this time though. Damn that game was hideous.

[Darth Nostril]

"Please! MERCY!......... You'll be so much easier to rob when you're dead."

Then you shoot them in the head with an enchanted Daedric bow that electrocutes them and sets them on fire.
On my last playthrough by the time I reached level 50 I refused to sully my weapons with bandit blood and just used Unrelenting Force, knocking them off mountains or into river gorges, or if no suitable steep drops were available then bouncing them off stony outcrops.

You sir, are fined 5 credits for violation of the "never make FeniX remember Little Lamplight" law. Dear God, when I found out you couldn't kill children in F3, I was like "meh, whatever. Who wants to kill children anyways?" Now I know why. I KNOW WHY!

There's a mod for that.

[Vendetta]

I'll take your word on it, I played F3 during my "computer too old, so 360 time" stint in gaming and recall numerous instances of getting pelted with .308 rifle rounds and not even seeing my HP drop one pip.

Oh yeah, that's totally the outcome. Most things that aren't a Deathclaw will come out doing single digit damage by endgame and you have 400-500 hitpoints. But it's because Beth balanced it for shit (sniper rifle does 40 damage, so with 85% DR it does 6 and you have 500HP so you don't even see the damage).

[TheFeniX]

There's a mod for that.

There's always "a mod for that." I would have made it myself if there wasn't. But I was playing on 360 at the time. Besides, children in Skyrim aren't nearly as annoying as they are in F3, nor is dealing with them a requirement to beat the game.

Oh yeah, that's totally the outcome. Most things that aren't a Deathclaw will come out doing single digit damage by endgame and you have 400-500 hitpoints. But it's because Beth balanced it for shit (sniper rifle does 40 damage, so with 85% DR it does 6 and you have 500HP so you don't even see the damage).

In retrospect, makes perfect sense. At that point, I had beaten the game, all the DLCs, and was a walking one-man (woman actually, as my second character usually is) army of death. Even death-claws were lucky to move my health down, if they could get close after eating a few Gauss Rifle rounds to the face from someone with 100 in energy weapons and a perception of 10. That was probably my most legitimately broken character of all time. I wish I had saved that file and ported it over to PC. Probably the only reason I haven't installed my F3 Steam copy.

I just thought what Skyrim would be like if you had VATS. And now I'm giggling like an idiot because it would be awesome!

[Darth Nostril]

Killed that dragon already but I can make do and tbh it's not so much not wanting to proceed in the main quest as it's wanting to do some stuff first before going to some of the harder parts of the main quest, like that damn Thalmor embassy (ironically even though my character is Altmer she seems to hate Thalmor almost as much as the Nords).

EDIT:I did get a horse though so I can overburden myself without walking back taking forever.

Ah, well I'm running the Dragon Combat Overhaul mod, it turns dragons from fairly easy to kill moving targets into two ton flying lizards who target the Dragonborn as their #1 priority and try to land on your head when they get the chance. After getting my charcoaled ass handed to me on a silver platter at the first encounter I rolled back to an earlier save and am now going through the side quests to level up and get some decent weaponry.