Jedi Academy

[Cal Wright]

Okay, bear with me folks. I have just started on book three of the Jedi Academy trilogy Champions of the Force. I must say, KJA deals a crippling blow to our debates versus the Trekkies. In fact, right now, a debate rages on about Mon Calamari versus the Federation. Someone believes the Mon Calamari has a planetary sheild. Gasp. It doesn't in Dark Apprentice. Mon Calamari should have a few MC-80's stationed there. Gasp. It doesn't. Scores of fighters should come racing up from the planets surface when a threat arises. Gasp. It doesn't. Anybody out there, at all interested in making changes to the Jedi Academy trilogy? In his own books, he has Leia say that the Mon Cals were the 'soul' of the Rebellion. Yet they have shit for defenses. First damn thing I would change is Daala. She can be as incompetent as a grapefruit. but by damned, she would have a fleet of ISDs and support ships to defend the station that designs the DEATH STAR and the SUN CRUSHER of all things! Mon Calamari would have to have an Ion Cannon, or a Planetary Laser Cannon, and at least a Planetary Sheild. Plus more than just a squadron of B-Wings. Ender pointed out also that they had just been attacked by the World Devestators. This plant, this species shipyards produces practically your first line of defense. Damn straight it is going to have some defenses. I don't care what back water world has to tremble in fear for a few months. Mon Cal is defended. Yeah baby yeah!!!

[StarshipTitanic]

They were just attacked by the World Devastators and they're far off the normal shipping routes. Despite the shipyards, I'd see no reason for the New Republic to fear for Mon Calamari (remember, this was when the Empire was all warlording states).

[Mr Bean]

Mon Calamari would have to have an Ion Cannon, or a Planetary Laser Cannon

Yes its well know how water-proof Planetary Defense are and how well they float

You have no clue how bad the World Devstator attack was, they lost ALOT of infastructor to it and where still in the proccess of rebuilding it when Daala showed up(It was a low priotry to building ships that could go fight the Empire so they took thier time with it)

And Daala was not incomptent, if you take are not taking Calamir's lack of defense at face value why are you taking that part at face then?

The simple fact is she had no information on her targets eariler than ten years old, Her ships where bare skelton crewed and not by the best and brightist, And her crew had not seen action in quite a long time
Loosing the Sun-Crusher yes bone-headed but then the book would have been reeeealy short had she not agree?

[Talon Karrde]

They were just attacked by the World Devastators and they're far off the normal shipping routes. Despite the shipyards, I'd see no reason for the New Republic to fear for Mon Calamari (remember, this was when the Empire was all warlording states).

My thoughts exactly. Mon Calamari is one of the backwater worlds of the galaxy (by which I mean on the far stretches of the galaxy) After being attacked by the Devestators the planet was in bad shape, and you just cant rebuild your defenses in a short amount of time, especially given their location in space.

[RadiO]

Jedi Academy was a little disappointing with the technical side of things. I know there's more to Star Wars than cool hardware that blows shit up, but really...

Daala's four ISDs are built up as a terrifying force for evil BUT achieve bugger all AND get molested by every military threat they meet AND lose one of their number to the Sun Crusher making a detour though the bridge (Yes, they were near a black hole, but still...)AND Daala resorts to blowing up a corvette with a remote-detonated bomb instead of just slagging the ship with her guns.

Mon Calamari is built-up as a major hub for the New Republic's ship-building effort and home to the soul of the RA and NR BUT has little defences AND needs a depressed Ackbar to kick their defence force's butts into gear YET still repulses Daala's 4-ship Squadron O' Doom without breaking into much of a sweat (WHILE destroying a perfectly valuble cruiser).

The Prototype Death Star is, on the face of it, one of the most pleasing concepts in the EU and a terrible threat to the New Republic BUT acheives very little except crumpling an asteroid base up a bit and getting sucked into a black hole. Why the hell did they bother getting out of bed that morning?

The Sun Crusher is the ultimate weapon of space-based total war BUT wins its most gruelling space battle by mindlessly slapping into an ISD AND does most of its coolest shit "off-screen", as it were ("Kyp Durron has blown up another 15 star systems with the Sun Crusher, etc.").

Then there's that bit where Wedge lands a freighter, and he gets out and he's wearing a helmet. But why? Pose value?
[/i]

[Cal Wright]

They were just attacked by the World Devastators and they're far off the normal shipping routes. Despite the shipyards, I'd see no reason for the New Republic to fear for Mon Calamari (remember, this was when the Empire was all warlording states).

Okay, I am the Warlord Pissed Off. I take my 5 Star Destroyers plus support ships to strike a very tempting New Republic target. Something that if I managed to accomplish, would rally the other Warlords around me. I know, Mon Calamari. The backbone of the Republican Navy, and a backwater world. Heh.

[Cal Wright]

Mon Calamari would have to have an Ion Cannon, or a Planetary Laser Cannon

Yes its well know how water-proof Planetary Defense are and how well they float

You have no clue how bad the World Devstator attack was, they lost ALOT of infastructor to it and where still in the proccess of rebuilding it when Daala showed up(It was a low priotry to building ships that could go fight the Empire so they took thier time with it)

And Daala was not incomptent, if you take are not taking Calamir's lack of defense at face value why are you taking that part at face then?

The simple fact is she had no information on her targets eariler than ten years old, Her ships where bare skelton crewed and not by the best and brightist, And her crew had not seen action in quite a long time
Loosing the Sun-Crusher yes bone-headed but then the book would have been reeeealy short had she not agree?

The topography of Mon Calamari is not completely ocean. They also have FLOATING ciities. I reiterate, because obviously some people did not read through my entire post. The Mon Calamarians are the 'soul' of the Rebellion. The shipyards produce the mighty warships that keep the Empire and enemy of the week of your back. If you have to pull ships away from defending backwater planet M678954 to defend Mon Calamari, then that is what you do.

Daala was far to incompetent. First, she was supposedly clever enough to change her identity at Carida. Yet, she waits for a decade and doesn't try to communicate with the outside? She lost the Sun Crusher, but that's just because nobody except Qwi knew it could go through a starship. What does Janeway...err Daala do with her remaining forces. She hits Mon Calamari. Does she do any form of recon? No. She believes reviewing old tapes of one dead fuck will bring her victory. What happens, She is scared by a squadron of B-Wings. If she had just sent her TIEs into the shipyards, then she could have moved the third Star Destroyer into position sooner than when Ackbar arrived. More than likely she would have destroyed the shipyards. Primary target IMO would be the almost completed starship. After that crushing defeat. What is her next step? Attack Coruscant with TWO Star Destroyers!!! I am sure that Star Destroyer would have been allowed to fall into orbit. Sure. With the space stations and ships, they could tractor that damn thing and keep it from falling. This is just the Jedi Academy. There is almost no chance in hell that I am going to re read Darksabre and point out her stupidity. In fact, the one who needs to do any re reading is you of the Academy series. Her ships were not skeleton crewed. Losing the Sun Crusher sucked, but who could guess how they were going to escape. No, bone headed were her actions after wards.

[Mr Bean]

Oooh another Challenge

Well one more before I go to sleep tonight

First my orgiona post was ment in humor comparing it say to Coruscant as although they do have floating citys may I point out that does not leave one many places to slap down 500 Ton Weaponry that also has to have a clear zone of a ceritan size around it at all times as the Giga-tons of firepower tend to burn of quite a bit of Oxygen along with some other negative effects

Daala was far to incompetent. First, she was supposedly clever enough to change her identity at Carida. Yet, she waits for a decade and doesn't try to communicate with the outside?

She was under orders not to communcate and stuck with them Doggly thats not incompetence thats Loyalty. As soon as she recived word from the outside she was set to move and where it not for the trechery of one scientist she would have done quite alot of damage

She hits Mon Calamari. Does she do any form of recon? No. She believes reviewing old tapes of one dead fuck will bring her victory. What happens, She is scared by a squadron of B-Wings. If she had just sent her TIEs into the shipyards, then she could have moved the third Star Destroyer into position sooner than when Ackbar arrived. More than likely she would have destroyed the shipyards. Primary target

Recon? Hmm with those Hyper-space capable Ties of hers oh wait
With an ISD? Oooh wait thats a little big to be a scout ship..... I'm sorry but would you like to explain where she could have done better? Second Scard of B-Wings? Where do you read that? The fact she help off attacking the Ship-Yards? Keep in mind she can't affoard to loose any of her ships so that was a smart idea of making them leave the shipyards defensless(Enough anyway they could always have a trick or two and it helps to get the obvious things out of the way) by staging a fake attack
What she did not count on was somone else who happend to be THE FORMER PERSONAL SLAVE OF TARKIN happing to be in Command at the time and Guessing her move

Attack Coruscant with TWO Star Destroyers!!! I am sure that Star Destroyer would have been allowed to fall into orbit. Sure. With the space stations and ships, they could tractor that damn thing and keep it from falling

See the SC thread for examples of Why Tractors are not super magic things
Frankly its been done before except a ship going out by the name of Lushakayaka it is possible it was a good idea and it would have worked.
Plantary shield or not you run a few hundred thousand tons of metal into a planet and then set off the core which keep in mind is designed to let 50 Heavy Turbolasers fire at the same time which is 50X200=100,000 or 100 Tetratons of firepower PLUS the Light and Mediums PLUS the Tractors and Enginess and keep the ships normal sysytems operating means it has to produce a hell of alot of power meaning blowing it up next to a planet is the best card she has left to play in doing absoulte destruction

It was a brillant plan like it or not and the way Courscant is set up it had a good chance of succeding(And even if it did not the Kinetic damage alone would be enough to knock out the shieldings meaing that all those Debris are falling towards the planet


And lastly

Her ships were not skeleton crewed.

Dont you mean WHERE? as it speficly says that at least three times in the first book alone

[Cal Wright]

Oooh another Challenge

Well one more before I go to sleep tonight

First my orgiona post was ment in humor comparing it say to Coruscant as although they do have floating citys may I point out that does not leave one many places to slap down 500 Ton Weaponry that also has to have a clear zone of a ceritan size around it at all times as the Giga-tons of firepower tend to burn of quite a bit of Oxygen along with some other negative effects

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Negative effects? What kind. Lord KJA goes on and one about how the Empire enslaved the Mon Cals and how they drove back the Empire. That's at least one time that fire in the giga ton range would have ripped the atmosphere right off the planet. How about in Dark Empire? Negative Effects. Just some damned nasty remodeling. Daala starts raining fire down onto the surface with weaponary well into the giga ton range. Negative Effects? One fucked ISD and a beautiful starship in the making gone.

Daala was far to incompetent. First, she was supposedly clever enough to change her identity at Carida. Yet, she waits for a decade and doesn't try to communicate with the outside?

She was under orders not to communcate and stuck with them Doggly thats not incompetence thats Loyalty. As soon as she recived word from the outside she was set to move and where it not for the trechery of one scientist she would have done quite alot of damage

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Loyalty? Loyalty? No, that's incompetent. How about sending a SHUTTLE? Yeah, you know those damned smooth ships that FAO is finally going to let us have for $120! Back to the point. WOULD? No. thanks to KJA, God of all EU and dictator to Zahn himself, Mon Calamari doesn't just have shit for defenses, they have shit for intelligence as well. The only success of that attack was sinking one city, heavily damaging two, and getting rid of a starship that was under construction. She captured a damned freighter when she first got out. Why couldn't she do the same outside of the system? Daala is incompetent.

She hits Mon Calamari. Does she do any form of recon? No. She believes reviewing old tapes of one dead fuck will bring her victory. What happens, She is scared by a squadron of B-Wings. If she had just sent her TIEs into the shipyards, then she could have moved the third Star Destroyer into position sooner than when Ackbar arrived. More than likely she would have destroyed the shipyards. Primary target

Recon? Hmm with those Hyper-space capable Ties of hers oh wait
With an ISD? Oooh wait thats a little big to be a scout ship..... I'm sorry but would you like to explain where she could have done better? Second Scard of B-Wings? Where do you read that? The fact she help off attacking the Ship-Yards? Keep in mind she can't affoard to loose any of her ships so that was a smart idea of making them leave the shipyards defensless(Enough anyway they could always have a trick or two and it helps to get the obvious things out of the way) by staging a fake attack
What she did not count on was somone else who happend to be THE FORMER PERSONAL SLAVE OF TARKIN happing to be in Command at the time and Guessing her move

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No. With those hyperspace capable shuttles that ISDs carry. Probe droids? In fact, that's another point there. I will explain. For I now know that is my duty to all Star Wars fans to re read this damned trilogy, shed light on it's stupidity and shape into the greatness that Star Wars is. Ackbar's submarine activated a probe droid, which is obviously from Empire Strikes Back (KJA on every page has a refrence to the original trilogy. In fact, that's almost the entirety of his books is to constantly describe a scene from the movies.) The signal it sends out before self destructing is recieved by Daala's forces. What do they do? Rush on to find out why they got it. Even though she let the NR know that she was loose and on the warpath. Give me a break. It is rather obvious that she didn't expect to encounter Ackbar's knowledge of the attack. Send the TIEs out that are flying around doing what your 2 ISDs are doing and take out the star fighter defenses. In fact, if she wasn't so incompetent as to just watch tapes of Tarkin and use one of his out dated plans. (She was away for a decade. TEN YEARS! She knew Tarkin was killed by the Rebels.) That's when you improvise. Leave the third ISD out of the system and hyper it in. When Ackbar comes in and the defenses for the shipyards go away, guess what? No ISD lying in wait. Surprise surprise.!!! Third ISD hypers in and slags the shipyards and that last star ship. That was easy.

Attack Coruscant with TWO Star Destroyers!!! I am sure that Star Destroyer would have been allowed to fall into orbit. Sure. With the space stations and ships, they could tractor that damn thing and keep it from falling

See the SC thread for examples of Why Tractors are not super magic things
Frankly its been done before except a ship going out by the name of Lushakayaka it is possible it was a good idea and it would have worked.
Plantary shield or not you run a few hundred thousand tons of metal into a planet and then set off the core which keep in mind is designed to let 50 Heavy Turbolasers fire at the same time which is 50X200=100,000 or 100 Tetratons of firepower PLUS the Light and Mediums PLUS the Tractors and Enginess and keep the ships normal sysytems operating means it has to produce a hell of alot of power meaning blowing it up next to a planet is the best card she has left to play in doing absoulte destruction

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Her plan was for it to breach the sheilds and impact on the surface. Hey, here's something you threw in my face earlier in this thread. Guess what, In Dark Empire Coruscant had a battle in orbit. In fact, in the Academy Trilogy they are still clearing away destroyed starships. Not only that, but they send some of the sizeable pieces back into Coruscants atmosphere to disintegrate. So the planet had plenty of ships going off in orbit. Even more so, that it being her BEST card in order to do absolute destruction just solidifies my point of her INCOMPETENCE.


It was a brillant plan like it or not and the way Courscant is set up it had a good chance of succeding(And even if it did not the Kinetic damage alone would be enough to knock out the shieldings meaing that all those Debris are falling towards the planet

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I honestly think it was shifaced on KJA to take such a character and trash her. I think I already covered the debris part just before this. Not only that. This just proves my point of incompetent she really is according to KJA. She did absolutely no recon before her attack on Mon Calamari. She just watched tapes of Tarkin and recycled his old attacks. This failed utterly. What is her next plan. To review more tapes, do absolutely no recon and contrive another ill fated plan. Guess what, that debris raining down on Coruscant. Unless they get BOTH sheilds down, Coruscant will not have anything to worry about. With Golans and starships (hopefully the absent defenses of Mon Calamari) they can just tractor that one suicidal ISD. If the Rebels can detect the Death Fleet coming out of hyperspace to close to Hoth, then Coruscant shouldn't have a problem (NO KJA, STAY BACK ::hits him with a stick::) detecting the two ISDs jumping in. That's plenty of time to raise a sheild that could deflect any bombardment. Heh, actually two sheilds.


And lastly

Her ships were not skeleton crewed.

Dont you mean WHERE? as it speficly says that at least three times in the first book alone

Wtf. English man. English. It doesn't specify shit about a skeleton crew. She had 180,000 people at her disposal. Not counting the scientist. You know where I got that information? From the book. Paperback. Page 244. Black and White. Guess what? ISD's can carry around 38k personell. Thats not a skeleton crew for each Star Destroyer.

I will have to say. Almost 100% of your past posts have been intelectual and actually well based on information. However, do yourself a favor. Instead of using faulty memories of a trilogy you probably haven't read in some time, re read the books like I am doing. Then come up with some points. Unlike Darkstar, Darkling, any others who just throw random guesses into the air and say thier cannon, I read and watch. Over and over again.

[FireNexus]

(KJA on every page has a refrence to the original trilogy. In fact, that's almost the entirety of his books is to constantly describe a scene from the movies.)

he did the same thing in the StarCraft novel he wrote. He took things almost exactly from the manual. He's a shithead.

[Mr Bean]

I'm not saying KJA is not an idiot, FAR FROM IT, I dislike the fool and hope a large Bus hits him as he's going out the Door today

She had 180,000 people at her disposal. Not counting the scientist. You know where I got that information? From the book. Paperback. Page 244. Black and White. Guess what? ISD's can carry around 38k personell. Thats not a skeleton crew for each Star Destroyer.

Then I must call KJA an idiot for not even bothering to contain Contiuity(Hell Worse than B&B even) because she says no less than three times she's runnning on a skeleton crew/ does not have that many people and then the Kicker that she has less than 2,000 people per ISD....
Either they are breeding like Rabbits or KJA is an idiot....

Which opition would you go with?

[Cal Wright]

Seeing how I am not Darkstar, it is obviously the latter.

[TheDarkling]

This may seem like a stupid question if I have overlooked something but why didnt Mon Cal raise its shield when the world devestators showed up?

I have read the comics in question (Dark Empire) and found no reference to the Mon cal having a shield or the devestators having weapons capable of bringnig down a shield in a short time.
There are only 2 or 3 ISDs escorting the WD's and the rebellion has to send in forces to take out these ISD's (easily done) then the attack on the WD doesnt go well.
Be all accounts from what I saw the Imps didnt have enough forces to take out a planetary shield unless the WEG quote is correct and planetary shields take a while to switch on.

Also in the comic the majority of Mon cals defense consists of fishmen with guns but they may imporve once the rebellion becomes the NR.