Has anyone noticed?????

[Alyrium Denryle]

Has anyone noticed that many peole fail to make the distinction between Anti-Bush, anti_war, and anti-american. I talk to people and tell them I dont like Bush and am often called "anti-American" and "if you dont like it, leave"

People dont seem to realize that not only is there a difference between not liking america, and not liking the decisions of the current exective and legistlative branches. And that dissent is essential to a free nation.

[Stormbringer]

Has anyone noticed that many peole fail to make the distinction between Anti-Bush, anti_war, and anti-american. I talk to people and tell them I dont like Bush and am often called "anti-American" and "if you dont like it, leave"

People dont seem to realize that not only is there a difference between not liking america, and not liking the decisions of the current exective and legistlative branches. And that dissent is essential to a free nation.

Part of the problem is in most people they tend to be all three. Certainly the most visible of the protestors certainly are.

[Joe]

No, this is not the first time anyone has noticed this. I'm tempted to write a more sarcastic reply but you're too nice of a guy, you don't deserve it.

It does piss me off, however, how the other side often fails to make a distinction between "war supporter" and "mindless Bush shill."

[Darth Wong]

Has anyone noticed that many peole fail to make the distinction between Anti-Bush, anti_war, and anti-american. I talk to people and tell them I dont like Bush and am often called "anti-American" and "if you dont like it, leave"

People dont seem to realize that not only is there a difference between not liking america, and not liking the decisions of the current exective and legistlative branches. And that dissent is essential to a free nation.

Of course. One unfortunate side-effect of 9/11 is that the right-wing fascists have come out of the woodwork, and it is now a free-fire zone on people who criticize the administration. They are accused of being anti-American (just as McCarthy accused anyone who criticized American economic policies in the 1950s of being unAmerican) and they are all lumped together into a single group, apparently called "liberal/PETA/hippie/dumb-ass/communist/anti-US" (just as McCarthy lumped all of his target groups under the title of "atheistic unamerican communist sympathizer").

[Darth Wong]

Part of the problem is in most people they tend to be all three. Certainly the most visible of the protestors certainly are.

You seriously think crowds of American citizens are anti-American? Why aren't they leaving the country, then?

[Joe]

Part of the problem is in most people they tend to be all three. Certainly the most visible of the protestors certainly are.

You seriously think crowds of American citizens are anti-American? Why aren't they leaving the country, then?

Loving America is not a prerequisite for living here.

[theski]

Also, during the ramp up toward war and the war itself the country has a tendency to try and pull together IE: lets win this and bring the troops home safe.." so as you criticize the admin alot of folks get a little pissed.. Darth- you can see the difference, it not your country and not your countrymen dying.. The rest of us are a lot more sensitve during a time like this..

[The Yosemite Bear]

Just Imagine the kinda shit I am getting called because of my other job as a Union rep.

[Stormbringer]

Part of the problem is in most people they tend to be all three. Certainly the most visible of the protestors certainly are.

You seriously think crowds of American citizens are anti-American? Why aren't they leaving the country, then?

I thought Alyrium was talking in more general terms.

Then again there are plenty of people at the forefront of those protests that hate the government simply because government = evil. I'm not saying all or be any means a majority of those prostestors in the US (outside the US are another story), but a lot of their leaders are simply anti-establishment.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Part of the problem is in most people they tend to be all three. Certainly the most visible of the protestors certainly are.

You seriously think crowds of American citizens are anti-American? Why aren't they leaving the country, then?

I thought Alyrium was talking in more general terms.

Then again there are plenty of people at the forefront of those protests that hate the government simply because government = evil. I'm not saying all or be any means a majority of those prostestors in the US (outside the US are another story), but a lot of their leaders are simply anti-establishment.

I am not anti-esablishment, just anti-CURRENT admin. It pisses me off when people tell me to leave the country beause I dont like their wannabe dictator. They have never read te constitution, they have no knowledge of how our government is supposed to work. And as such dont form their own opinions, but rather take up what the rght-wing propaganda tells them. Then they lash out aginst those that disagree. When people actually form their own opinions that is one thng, because they tend to understand the other side...But those that are mindless sheep...

[Darth Wong]

Also, during the ramp up toward war and the war itself the country has a tendency to try and pull together IE: lets win this and bring the troops home safe.." so as you criticize the admin alot of folks get a little pissed.. Darth- you can see the difference, it not your country and not your countrymen dying.. The rest of us are a lot more sensitve during a time like this..

And how does it help get your troops home safe to mindlessly attack any critic of the administration as an anti-American traitor?

[Stormbringer]

I am not anti-esablishment, just anti-CURRENT admin. It pisses me off when people tell me to leave the country beause I dont like their wannabe dictator. They have never read te constitution, they have no knowledge of how our government is supposed to work. And as such dont form their own opinions, but rather take up what the rght-wing propaganda tells them. Then they lash out aginst those that disagree. When people actually form their own opinions that is one thng, because they tend to understand the other side...But those that are mindless sheep...

Dude, I'm not saying you should leave. I don't much care for the Bush administration either. Though I think you're over reacting if you think we're heading towards a dictatorship.

But I am sick of you treating anyone that disagrees with any of you're precious liberal views as being blinded by Bush. Like him or not he can ocassionally make a good point.

[The Dark]

Has anyone noticed that many peole fail to make the distinction between Anti-Bush, anti_war, and anti-american. I talk to people and tell them I dont like Bush and am often called "anti-American" and "if you dont like it, leave"

True. I'm anti-Bush and anti-war (this war, anyway. I was pro-Afghanistan). I'm still very pro-American, though, which is exactly why I'm against Bush and this war. I see him starting a dangerous precedent and causing us to lose any international credibility we may once have had. *shrug* just my opinion, though.

<snip> it is now a free-fire zone on people who criticize the administration. They are accused of being anti-American and they are all lumped together into a single group, apparently called "liberal/PETA/hippie/dumb-ass/communist/anti-US" <snip>

LOL...I'm slightly liberal, but I hate PETA, I'm no hippie, I don't think I'm a dumbass (is this an IQ definition or just a subjective slander by the callers? ), I'm a libertarian, and I already explained how being pro-US is what's making me anti-war. They can fire at me all they want, as long as they realize I'll fire back. My Ethics class discussed the war yesterday, and I debated three people to a standstill when they tried to argue why the war was justified. I don't think I won any converts, but at least the class is (mostly) willing to listen to the arguments for both sides. We still have a few government shills in the class, but they're not big participators, so I can survive them .

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am not anti-esablishment, just anti-CURRENT admin. It pisses me off when people tell me to leave the country beause I dont like their wannabe dictator. They have never read te constitution, they have no knowledge of how our government is supposed to work. And as such dont form their own opinions, but rather take up what the rght-wing propaganda tells them. Then they lash out aginst those that disagree. When people actually form their own opinions that is one thng, because they tend to understand the other side...But those that are mindless sheep...

Dude, I'm not saying you should leave. I don't much care for the Bush administration either. Though I think you're over reacting if you think we're heading towards a dictatorship.

But I am sick of you treating anyone that disagrees with any of you're precious liberal views as being blinded by Bush. Like him or not he can ocassionally make a good point.

I wasnt saying that about you, nor am I saying it about all bush supporters. Simply the ones that havve told me to leave the country. No am I sayng that cnservtives are all blinded by bush. It is just that many people(mainly some teens, and religious fundies) Come to the positions they have reached, not through critical analysis, but by listening to, their conservative parents(nothing wrong with that) and take it to far. And the religious fundie, well, they support hm blindly because he is a christian, n that is all they care about(at least tthe ones I talk to)

I didnt mean dictator in the classical sense, as dont thnk tht even now the american people would allow a dictator to come to power But the breaches in our liberties and freedoms are to much for me to be comfortable with(granted ANY breach in the bill of rights is to much for me to be comfortable with)

Again, those that have come to their political stance on their own dont usually bother me, because they understand the other position.

[Stormbringer]

I wasnt saying that about you, nor am I saying it about all bush supporters. Simply the ones that havve told me to leave the country. No am I sayng that cnservtives are all blinded by bush. It is just that many people(mainly some teens, and religious fundies) Come to the positions they have reached, not through critical analysis, but by listening to, their conservative parents(nothing wrong with that) and take it to far. And the religious fundie, well, they support hm blindly because he is a christian, n that is all they care about(at least tthe ones I talk to)

With the exception of the war in Iraq and some aspects of the war on terror, I'm not a bush support. Moderate Conservative but not a bush supporter.

Alyrium, as with any social, politcal, or religious group there are a lot of people that accept the veiws of other with out question. The same happens for democrats (look at hollyweird if you don't beleive me{. It's hardly something to be suprised about.

I didnt mean dictator in the classical sense, as dont thnk tht even now the american people would allow a dictator to come to power But the breaches in our liberties and freedoms are to much for me to be comfortable with(granted ANY breach in the bill of rights is to much for me to be comfortable with)

Bush is hardly a dictator in any sense of the word. And while the violation of civil liberties bother me a little, I'm less concerned about them than about Bush economic policies. They're based on WW1 and WW2 precendents with regards to german infiltrators. Given the judicious way they've so far been used I'm not worried about them.

Again, those that have come to their political stance on their own dont usually bother me, because they understand the other position.

Same here. Those that can at least she sense and be reasonable don't worry me. Those that simply stick to party dogma worry me.

[Alyrium Denryle]

True. I'm anti-Bush and anti-war (this war, anyway. I was pro-Afghanistan). I'm still very pro-American, though, which is exactly why I'm against Bush and this war. I see him starting a dangerous precedent and causing us to lose any international credibility we may once have had. *shrug* just my opinion, though.

Also the reason I dont like this war. Floting nternational law will not help us win support in Europe. The when they protest t, we begin to institutionalize hatred of those coutries.

LOL...I'm slightly liberal, but I hate PETA, I'm no hippie, I don't think I'm a dumbass (is this an IQ definition or just a subjective slander by the callers? ),

I personally dont hate PETAs mission, they just take it to far. I have friends that are members. But I do sypathize wth the plight of animals, especially reptiles, in petstores and rattlesnake roundups.(Though considering the fact that I will be a herpetologist this is not suprizing, and the fact that non-mammals are treated worse than mammals is also nota shock) Those animals are kept in deplorable conditions that no animal should have to suffer through. And when people cut down the rinforest, or gas rattlesnake dens. I see them killing my lifes passion, and future job.

I to am no hippie

And when people all me a dumbas I will quickly point out that I am far more intelligent than they are.(which is often the case. At the very least they dont use ther intellect so as to be popular in american culture)

[Alyrium Denryle]

I will have to do a lttle research into the specifics of his economic policy. I am only familiar in the general policy of the republcan party.

[Joe]

Take what the Democrats want and slow it down, and you'll have the Republican economic policy. No spending cuts, EVER, that's for sure.

[Stormbringer]

I will have to do a lttle research into the specifics of his economic policy. I am only familiar in the general policy of the republcan party.

It's essentially the trickle down Reagan-nomics of two decades ago.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Alyrium, as with any social, politcal, or religious group there are a lot of people that accept the veiws of other with out question. The same happens for democrats (look at hollyweird if you don't beleive me{. It's hardly something to be suprised about.

I agree. They piss me off. Mainly becase they are the stereopype liberal. Not somethng I want to be associated with

[Joe]

It probably wouldn't surprise you to learn that Bush is presiding over the largest expansion of government power since at least LBJ, and possibly FDR.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I will have to do a lttle research into the specifics of his economic policy. I am only familiar in the general policy of the republcan party.

It's essentially the trickle down Reagan-nomics of two decades ago.

Yes. I know that part *side show bob shudder* But I will hve to look at the specifics. Bushes State of the union address was all rhetoric, he avoided gving straight answers with that speech.

[Stormbringer]

Yes. I know that part *side show bob shudder* But I will hve to look at the specifics. Bushes State of the union address was all rhetoric, he avoided gving straight answers with that speech.

Mostly because I he doesn't have much for economic policy other than tax cuts.

[Alyrium Denryle]

yes, tax cuts on investment dividends. That will only help the wealthiest of the wealthy Of course, then he will increase spending.

Math by Ronald Reagan

"Now to decrease the national dept, and deficit spending, we need to lower taxes, and increase spending"

[Stormbringer]

yes, tax cuts on investment dividends. That will only help the wealthiest of the wealthy Of course, then he will increase spending.

Not exactly true anymore. There are so many people that have some sort of investments in the stock market that everyone would benefit to some degree and the elderly and retired especially.

Math by Ronald Reagan

"Now to decrease the national dept, and deficit spending, we need to lower taxes, and increase spending"

Gotta love Reaganomics.