Veteran with PTSD calls VA helpline, rants, gets arrested

[Thanas]

What I don't agree with is you painting some scenarios who obviously are very different and then make a spiel of "oh, if only he had been shot you would be singing a different tune". Well, no shit Sherlock, because getting shot for no reason is totally different from wanting to see a dangerous threat dealt with. In short, I don't see what purpose it serves.

[Flagg]

Simon, I'm commenting on my PTSD anecdotally and because it has never made me even come close to ever even wanting to threaten to shoot up people in a VA hospital that have nothing to do with my not getting what I wanted when I wanted it on a crisis line. As for you speculating on male BPD behavior, I'd like to see scans of your degrees or degree in psychiatry and/or psychology otherwise shut the fuck up.

And my logic follows Occam's Razor, dimwit. And frankly, even if a mental illness made him more prone to make violent threats to murder innocent people because he wants what he wants right now, that doesn't let him off the hook any more than all of those schizophrenics in prison for life for murder. It may mitigate it if he can prove it.

And if you have someone who is making terroristic threats and doesn't show up at a judicially mandated appointment (because the authorities aren't psychic and don't know that he didn't get the notification, which is the only part of his BS I buy into, but not totally) they have a responsibility to the public to take him in. As for the rest: Tell it to the judge.

[Flagg]

What I don't agree with is you painting some scenarios who obviously are very different and then make a spiel of "oh, if only he had been shot you would be singing a different tune". Well, no shit Sherlock, because getting shot for no reason is totally different from wanting to see a dangerous threat dealt with. In short, I don't see what purpose it serves.

It serves as one, a red herring and two, so Simon can blather on, pretending he's of above average intelligence. You know, the usual.

[Simon_Jester]

What I don't agree with is you painting some scenarios who obviously are very different and then make a spiel of "oh, if only he had been shot you would be singing a different tune". Well, no shit Sherlock, because getting shot for no reason is totally different from wanting to see a dangerous threat dealt with. In short, I don't see what purpose it serves.

I said a thing because I believed it was true and thought some people might have interesting things to say about it. I had no other purpose.

I often say things because I think they're true, with no ulterior motive. It's a habit.

Simon, I'm commenting on my PTSD anecdotally and because it has never made me even come close to ever even wanting to threaten to shoot up people in a VA hospital that have nothing to do with my not getting what I wanted when I wanted it on a crisis line.

OK.

So to be clear, are you saying that it is rare or unheard of for PTSD to cause people to become irrationally angry and threaten people with excessive and criminal violence?

Or are you simply saying that PTSD does not have that effect on you personally?

As for you speculating on male BPD behavior, I'd like to see scans of your degrees or degree in psychiatry and/or psychology otherwise shut the fuck up.

It was pure speculation, and I said so at the time, and I have nothing more to say on the matter. I like conversations, but if nobody wants to speculate on that, sure, fine, nothing more to say.

And my logic follows Occam's Razor, dimwit. And frankly, even if a mental illness made him more prone to make violent threats to murder innocent people because he wants what he wants right now, that doesn't let him off the hook any more than all of those schizophrenics in prison for life for murder. It may mitigate it if he can prove it.

It would depend heavily on what you mean by "off the hook." People who are found not guilty by reason of insanity usually don't get to just walk away as though nothing had happened, so far as I know. As I recall, treatment is mandatory, confinement to a mental institution is normal until such time as the subject is no longer deemed a threat to the public.

On the other hand, the PTSD might only be a mitigating defense. That is true.

But the only way it's not a mitigating defense at all, which is what the federal prosecution is claiming by saying it can't be mentioned at trial, is if PTSD does not cause people to be irrationally angry or threatening. And that... contradicts a lot of things I have heard said about PTSD, to put it mildly.

And if you have someone who is making terroristic threats and doesn't show up at a judicially mandated appointment (because the authorities aren't psychic and don't know that he didn't get the notification, which is the only part of his BS I buy into, but not totally) they have a responsibility to the public to take him in. As for the rest: Tell it to the judge.

In this case, the federal prosecutors are trying to stop that from happening...

[PainRack]

I think Flagg didn't read that the victim didn't know about the court order mandatory visit. Essentially, this is a legal measure to force people to seek medical treatment, because they are felt to be at risk to themselves or others.

His failure to comply with an unknown appointment is what landed him in this mess. It's a bureaucratic snafu , one that's extremely common. Hell,nobody told me I have a gastro follow-up for my colonoscopy and if it wasn't for the electronic online search, and me trying to get another date for my psych TCU, I would never have known.

(Well, except for my sms reminder which has....issues if it's the first TCU and etc.. )

Are we so cruel to say a person is at fault for not knowing about his doctor appointment, that nobody apparently told him?

And I have electronic records. The VA is still using bloody paper!!!

You're right, I did miss that. If they have a notice sent that is postmarked too late for him to have made it to the appointment, then it should clear his name. But if they don't, then he could have gotten it, and it could just as easily have been torn up and thrown away by him. Not that I buy that, as I've been set up for appointments without notification until I got a call confirming the appointment a day or two before I was supposed to be there. So I get that part. Still absolutely no excuse for what he did.

Its him trying to get help and failing to get it,losing his cool. The system reacted to check him in and ensure he isnt a threat..... But then FAILED to actually check him in!

Look, there was a crisis specialist who called him AFTER the incident and noted that he was holding his shit together. While i perfectly understand the left and right hand scenario(just got harrangued by the surgeon and the MO beside me was oops,didnt consider that today), it does show the failure of the healthcare system . Given the VA other failures, its..... highlights a more dangerous scenario.

A prison system is supposed to be rehabilative. The article makes it out that hes in prison and STILL not getting treatment or being assessed.
[¡]One benefit to being in jail is that he was prescribed medicine to help with anxiety and depression. He has yet to see a therapist.

Over the last several weeks, federal prosecutors filed motions to block Broderick’s attorneys from telling a jury anything about his PTSD. They have also asked a judge to bar any evidence about recent problems with the Veterans Affairs administration’s ability to see and treat patients.[/¡]
Thats shitty.. Im not sure about violent offenders here but the equivalent here is that the police charge them, then detour them after holding to IMH for incaernment and assessment there.

Granted, i not a lawyer and there might be necessary legal steps needed to reach there,both in the US or mine but the article is still showing a piss poor performance of the mental health system of the VA and how the government treats veterans who need help.