Iraqi SCUDs.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-22 03:56pm

From another board, here's a report on what we've found. No WMDs so far, but...

Stuart Slade wrote:1) At least two of the missiles fired by Iraq at Kuwait were SCUDs. Positive ID from the wreckage, no argument, no room for error. We've also found out that Saddam had squirreled away 11 mobile launchers and 50 SCUDs. That should pretty well discredit future "inspection regimes"

While I consider Mr. Slade a highly reputable source (as do several others here), I have asked him if there are any other sources that I might be able to link to as well; a response may take awhile.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-22 04:01pm

Way to go UN Inspectors!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-03-22 04:05pm

Stormbringer wrote:Way to go UN Inspectors!

I wouldn't go blaming them because Saddam had weeks of notice to hide his illegal arms.

Hell, he did a pretty good job fooling everyone. He even let the inspectors find some missiles that were technically over the limit, but only a little bit, so he could claim 'Well, with guidance they would be legal, but I'll be a good sport and destroy them. See? The US is lying about me. Love me.'

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-03-22 04:06pm

Stormbringer wrote:Way to go UN Inspectors!

Go roll your eyes some other place.

Iraq was allowed to keep SCUD missiles, the UN was not there to find them.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-03-22 04:07pm

Who would've thunk he squirreled away weaponry from prying eys...sigh.

Yes, inspections worked to a tee.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-22 04:07pm

SirNitram wrote:I wouldn't go blaming them because Saddam had weeks of notice to hide his illegal arms.

Hell, he did a pretty good job fooling everyone. He even let the inspectors find some missiles that were technically over the limit, but only a little bit, so he could claim 'Well, with guidance they would be legal, but I'll be a good sport and destroy them. See? The US is lying about me. Love me.'

I suppose it's more a commentary on the stupidty of the people that kept saying more inspectors would make it all better. Saddam as usual pulled the wool over their eyes and now we're cleaning up the mess they helped make.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-22 04:08pm

Ted wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Way to go UN Inspectors!
Go roll your eyes some other place.

Iraq was allowed to keep SCUD missiles, the UN was not there to find them.

Are you sure about this? His SCUDs exceed the range mandated by the UN ceasefire, don't they?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-03-22 04:12pm

phongn wrote:Are you sure about this? His SCUDs exceed the range mandated by the UN ceasefire, don't they?

The Al Samoud 2 outranged the SCUD by several dozen miles, atleast. The SCUD-B was within UN restrictions in terms of range.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-03-22 04:13pm

More inspectors would ccertainly had helped, along with a more agressive stance towards Iraq's refusal to inspect certain areas.
Now, it's one more argument to shove on anti-war activistis faces. (Of course, they would go saying the missiles fied didn't hit anything, so they weren't a threat...

)

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-03-22 04:15pm

And the peaceniks are wondering why we're not using weapon inspectors anymore...

It's like a thirteen-year-old hacker with Fundy parents who hate porn. He gets a huge contraband stash and knows where on the hard drive to hide it. His parents, who get the idea that the boy's looking at porn, come along and try their computer-inept damnedest to find/delete the porn, install censoring software, password-protect the comp, etc.; but the 31337 h4x0r d00d has so many cracker toolz and the knowledge of the workings of "his" computer that it's useless for the parents to do anything short of punching a FORMAT C: /Y into a DOS prompt.

Replace "13-year-old h4x0r" with "Saddam Hussein", "Fundy Parents" with "UN", "Porn/Contraband" with "Weapons of Mass Destruction", etc etc etc... and you have the Iraq situation to a T.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-22 04:17pm

Ted wrote:
phongn wrote:Are you sure about this? His SCUDs exceed the range mandated by the UN ceasefire, don't they?
The Al Samoud 2 outranged the SCUD by several dozen miles, atleast. The SCUD-B was within UN restrictions in terms of range.

You're forgetting that most of Iraq's SCUDs were modified to increase their range (abliet unreliably). One type had a range of 300-km, another 600-650 km and the last one 750-900 km.

SCUD-A had a range of 180km and is the "base" model. SCUD-B has a range of some 300-km.

The UN restriction was 150-km.

EDIT: Both varients of the Al Samoud II exceeded the UN restriction and are outranged by SCUD - perhaps you were thinking of another missile, Ted?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-22 04:17pm

Ted wrote:
phongn wrote:Are you sure about this? His SCUDs exceed the range mandated by the UN ceasefire, don't they?
The Al Samoud 2 outranged the SCUD by several dozen miles, atleast. The SCUD-B was within UN restrictions in terms of range.

Ted and phongn, do either of you have a source? Because I was under the impression that Iraq wasn't supposed to have Scuds either.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-22 04:22pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Ted wrote:
phongn wrote:Are you sure about this? His SCUDs exceed the range mandated by the UN ceasefire, don't they?
The Al Samoud 2 outranged the SCUD by several dozen miles, atleast. The SCUD-B was within UN restrictions in terms of range.
Ted and phongn, do either of you have a source? Because I was under the impression that Iraq wasn't supposed to have Scuds either.

Yep.

Jane's has some information - though take them with a grain of salt - on the original SCUD varients.

CDISS has some information on Iraq's modification programmes.

GlobalSecurity has further information on Iraq's programmes and probably is one of the more accurate sources.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-22 04:25pm

Ted wrote:
phongn wrote:Are you sure about this? His SCUDs exceed the range mandated by the UN ceasefire, don't they?
The Al Samoud 2 outranged the SCUD by several dozen miles, atleast. The SCUD-B was within UN restrictions in terms of range.

Bullshit, SCUD B range is 300 kilometers. Iraq is allowed 150.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world ... issile.htm

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-03-22 07:05pm

phongn wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Ted wrote: The Al Samoud 2 outranged the SCUD by several dozen miles, atleast. The SCUD-B was within UN restrictions in terms of range.
Ted and phongn, do either of you have a source? Because I was under the impression that Iraq wasn't supposed to have Scuds either.
Yep.

Jane's has some information - though take them with a grain of salt - on the original SCUD varients.

CDISS has some information on Iraq's modification programmes.

GlobalSecurity has further information on Iraq's programmes and probably is one of the more accurate sources.

Thanks!

*hugs GlobalSecurity*

Hmm why is everyone harping about the Al-Samouds when they have Scud-B, Al-Fahd, Al-Husayn, etc that all have double, triple, or even FIFTEEN TIMES (Tammuz 1) the legal range! Oy vey!

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-22 07:44pm

It's because the inspectors found the missiles and Saddam offered to destroy them (and was in the process of doing so before war broke out).

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-22 08:00pm

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Hmm why is everyone harping about the Al-Samouds when they have Scud-B, Al-Fahd, Al-Husayn, etc that all have double, triple, or even FIFTEEN TIMES (Tammuz 1) the legal range! Oy vey!

Because supposedly they where all destroyed after the Gulf war. Though in reality large numbers where never accounted for just like all of Iraq's WMD and delivery systems.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-22 08:02pm

phongn wrote:It's because the inspectors found the missiles and Saddam offered to destroy them (and was in the process of doing so before war broke out).

He didn't offer to. The UN inspectors ordered them destroyed and Iraq gave in, after protesting heavily.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-22 11:32pm

I just watched on a Fox report at the Pentagon that they had never confirmed SCUD firings whatsoever, and that the only missiles they had confirmed were Al-Samoud 2s.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-23 01:29am

From Reuters http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm ... ID=2429803

"Gen. Stanley McChrystal, vice director for operations on the U.S. military's Joint Staff, also told a briefing that none of the missiles fired by Iraq so far in the war [so far] had been a Scud."

Even though the Pentagon has every reason to lie and claim that Scuds have been falling like raindrops in Seattle, they've very specifically said that Iraq has launched no Scuds.

So, guys, do your feet taste good?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-23 10:31am

This is why I asked for additional confirmation, Vympel & Enlightenment. I'll ask him later about this.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-23 10:59am

Enlightenment wrote:From Reuters
So, guys, do your feet taste good?

SOMETHING was intercepted by our Patriot PAC-3s, and
it most certainly wasn't a radar ghost.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-03-23 11:01am

Ted wrote:
phongn wrote:Are you sure about this? His SCUDs exceed the range mandated by the UN ceasefire, don't they?
The Al Samoud 2 outranged the SCUD by several dozen miles, atleast. The SCUD-B was within UN restrictions in terms of range.

No, even the original SCUD had a range of 180KM which is 30KM over the 150KM restriction.

The Iraqis modified them for longer range.....some could even reach 800KMs.

EDIT * I apologize, this has already been covered and due to me being lazy and not reading the entire thread I responded when I shouldn't have.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-23 11:01am

MKSheppard wrote:
Enlightenment wrote:From Reuters
So, guys, do your feet taste good?

SOMETHING was intercepted by our Patriot PAC-3s, and
it most certainly wasn't a radar ghost.

Clearly we have intercepted ballistic missiles with PAC3s, but it appears that initial reports that we have recovered SCUDs or shot them down were false. I've posted a query to Slade's board about the news reports saying that we have not found any nor shot any down.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-23 11:05am

I have an alternate report from the New York Times that indicates that they have launched a SCUD but that it did not carry a CBW.