Suggesting a new "Battles" page for the main site

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-03-16 01:36pm

Durandal wrote:
Darth Negation wrote:Ships exiting hyperspace are detected by a "hyperwave warning" (The Last One Standing: The Tale Of Boba Fett, Tales of the Bounty Hunters).
I do not believe they can be detected in hyperspace as in (book 1/2 of the X-wing series, I forget which) an Imp Intel Officer tracks Rogue Squadron's hyperspace path by working out their entry and exit vectors to hyperspace to discover their base. If sensors could track ships through hyperspace there would not be a need for this, as he could have used the hyperspace paths in and out (much more accurate than the entry/exit vectors).
Ships cannot be tracked through hyperspace, as was stated in the radio drama of ANH. However, special tracking devices can be used, as was demonstrated when the Devastator tracked the Tantive IV and when the Death Star tracked the Falcon.

As for tracking entry and exit vectors, I'm not sure what you're saying makes sense. If they knew the Rogues' entry and exit vectors, who gives a shit about what path they took? That involves nothing more than connecting the dots, unless hyperspace is non-Euclydian, and there's no indication that it is.

If the Imp officer could track the hyperspace path, it would be more accurate to extrapolate using the hyperspace path than entry and exit vectors.

However, if that still does not make sense, thanks for radio evidence! That would work just as well, as the sensor system in place would have no reason to have a long sensor range; active sensors can be detected (which the Separatists do not want) and passive ones are, basically, people with telescopes (ie visual sensors).

As ships in hyperspace cannot be detected, there would not be a point in having long range sensors to look for slow moving ships in hyperspace (though slow moving hyperdrive equipped ships is kinda a contradiction) as they would not be detected. Therefore, the Federation ships could warp in and take out the command centre with a stun beam, before it can be detected.

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-03-16 01:54pm

I've just found Darth Wong's view on superluminal tracking in hyperspace; he believes that it is possible to track stuff in hyperspace.

I find this view very contentious, and so I think I'll go to the Pure Star Wars thread and discuss it.

:dons abestos suit to avoid serious burns:

(faint screams follow... "Aiee, it burns! AIEE!")

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-03-16 03:26pm

Using the link posted in your other thread, the Republic does indeed have FTL sensors. Case closed. Seps see Feds coming from a mile away, and incinerate Fed ships as they exit warp.

Victory to the Empire! Er....Republic!

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-03-16 03:27pm

Ehh, I keep using the Sepratists and the Republic interchangably in this situation. I mean Seps on all accounts. Yes, I am confused.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-16 05:23pm

Darth Negation wrote:I've just found Darth Wong's view on superluminal tracking in hyperspace; he believes that it is possible to track stuff in hyperspace.

I find this view very contentious, and so I think I'll go to the Pure Star Wars thread and discuss it.

I don't see what's so difficult to believe about the concept of tracking a ship through hyperspace. Ships in hyperspace still interact with gravity, so it should be trivial to detect them using graviton-based sensors.

Why isn't this approach widely utilized? Because gravitons travel at exactly c, while ships in hyperspace travel at superluminal speeds. However, you could set up a sweeping net to detect when a ship in hyperspace passes through it.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-03-17 08:31am

Durandal wrote:
Darth Negation wrote:I've just found Darth Wong's view on superluminal tracking in hyperspace; he believes that it is possible to track stuff in hyperspace.

I find this view very contentious, and so I think I'll go to the Pure Star Wars thread and discuss it.
I don't see what's so difficult to believe about the concept of tracking a ship through hyperspace. Ships in hyperspace still interact with gravity, so it should be trivial to detect them using graviton-based sensors.

Why isn't this approach widely utilized? Because gravitons travel at exactly c, while ships in hyperspace travel at superluminal speeds. However, you could set up a sweeping net to detect when a ship in hyperspace passes through it.

Except that if you do that,its isn't called tracking.If the infomation you have is obselete before you even possess it,what the point?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-17 12:03pm

Because you could set up detection nets with it.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-03-18 09:31am

To do what?Know how a ship travelled from point A to point B?

Yeah,I'm sure that could be useful for a customs or Imperial Hyperspace Bureau,but in a military sense?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-03-18 11:24am

PainRack wrote:To do what?Know how a ship travelled from point A to point B?

To know when a ship enters your territory so there won't be any sneak attacks.

Yeah,I'm sure that could be useful for a customs or Imperial Hyperspace Bureau,but in a military sense?

Hint: invasions.

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-03-18 02:50pm

I now have to agree with the hyperspace tracking after reading the sensor page on the website (Index, Imperial sensors)

And you can hardly see my lobotomy scars!

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-03-20 09:56am

Darth Servo wrote:
PainRack wrote:To do what?Know how a ship travelled from point A to point B?
To know when a ship enters your territory so there won't be any sneak attacks.

Yeah,I'm sure that could be useful for a customs or Imperial Hyperspace Bureau,but in a military sense?
Hint: invasions.

So,I guess the need to know when a ship enters your territory ten hours after it already gets there is of any use to a military officer?

hvb · Post by **hvb** » 2003-03-20 12:07pm

In the above discussion it seems to be assumed by many debaters that federation capital ship phasers can fire stun shots.

I cannot remember this ever having been done (even if the feds may have that ability?), so it would likely not be a normal tactic, and so would not be applicable as a federation move, under the assumptions of no new tech/special characters/special vehicles/radically new ways of doing things, that govern these battles.

I will of course stand corrected if any of you can quote instances where federation capships (or shuttlecraft for that matter) have demonstrated a stun setting on their phasors.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-03-20 12:13pm

hvb wrote:In the above discussion it seems to be assumed by many debaters that federation capital ship phasers can fire stun shots.
I cannot remember this ever having been done (even if the feds may have that ability?), so it would likely not be a normal tactic, and so would not be applicable as a federation move, under the assumptions of no new tech/special characters/special vehicles/radically new ways of doing things, that govern these battles.

I will of course stand corrected if any of you can quote instances where federation capships (or shuttlecraft for that matter) have demonstrated a stun setting on their phasors.

Star Trek TOS, "A Piece of the Action"
Some gangsters start a firefight on the street blow Kirk's position. As a demonstration of the Federation's superior bargaining position, Kirk contacts Scotty and orders an orbital phaser barrage to stun all of the combatants. Scotty carries out the order, demonstrating the stun capability of starship phasers quite handily.

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-03-22 01:40am

PainRack wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:
PainRack wrote:To do what?Know how a ship travelled from point A to point B?
To know when a ship enters your territory so there won't be any sneak attacks.

Yeah,I'm sure that could be useful for a customs or Imperial Hyperspace Bureau,but in a military sense?
Hint: invasions.
So,I guess the need to know when a ship enters your territory ten hours after it already gets there is of any use to a military officer?

The Empire do have hyperspeed communication, i.e. Holo-coding - New Rebellion: Realtime images from Courscant to "somewhere beyond the Outer Rim". Also shown in TESB - The Emperor talking to Darth Vader. So the network would be able to send a message faster than hyperdrive.

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-03-22 02:02am

PainRack wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:
PainRack wrote:To do what?Know how a ship travelled from point A to point B?
To know when a ship enters your territory so there won't be any sneak attacks.

Yeah,I'm sure that could be useful for a customs or Imperial Hyperspace Bureau,but in a military sense?
Hint: invasions.
So,I guess the need to know when a ship enters your territory ten hours after it already gets there is of any use to a military officer?

The Empire has hyperspeed messaging: TESB: Emperor speaking realtime across a couple of systems, to Darth Vader.
The New Rebellion: "We have instant communication all over this galaxy," the lieutenant said.
"Not all over," Wedge said softly.

Distance does affect lag time, but in the latter example, a realtime message was sent via Holocoding from Courscant (er... I mean Imperial Center?) to Almania, Somewhere Further Than The Outer Rim.
So a detector array could send a message to the recipient faster than the actual ships could get there.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-03-22 11:26am

This is not about communications speed,its about the sensor speed.By the time your sensor discover that a ship has passed through a region and passed that infomation down to a central HQ,to be further disseminated downwards from there,the invasion force has already demonstrated her presence by attacking her targets.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-22 03:55pm

Durandal wrote:Because you could set up detection nets with it.

The Emire did eaxctly that, the Imperial Hyperspace Net in the Deep Core prevented almost any non Imperial ship from being able to go there. It wasn't until NJO that the EMpire divulged that information to the New Republic (just prior to them forming the Galactic Alliance IIRC)

Now is there a way to adjust this battle so that 200 Datas would be used in place of the Jedi? Not that its reasonable the feds would have 200 Jedi but its an argument someone mike make. Especially since Nemesis showed us that the technology can be duplicated somewhat.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-03-22 05:00pm

To return to the original post, there should be 13 Acclamator-class transports, because a smaller number would not be able to move 200,000 clonetroopers.

This automatically gives 624 AT-TEs, 468 SPHA, 1040 LAAT and up to 208,000 troopers, if we assume they are fully loaded.</font>

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-03-22 07:30pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Now is there a way to adjust this battle so that 200 Datas would be used in place of the Jedi? Not that its reasonable the feds would have 200 Jedi but its an argument someone mike make. Especially since Nemesis showed us that the technology can be duplicated somewhat.

Datas would die just as fast as Fed commadoes. Without any protection against the hundreds of lasers flying at them each second (unlike Jedi with their lightsabers), 200 Datas/commandoes probably wouldn't last 60 seconds out there.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-22 08:25pm

Thanks, I fiured as much but when you suggest these battles you have to cover every possibility.

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-03-23 01:50am

I forget - how did the Jedi get to the planet in the first place? Also, who should you replace Amidala, Wan Kenobi (first name Obi) and Anakin with?

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-03-23 05:15pm

That's the first time I've seen anyone refer to Obi-wan as Wan Kenobi. In their place will probably be a couple of officers who got caught spying.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-03-23 06:51pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:That's the first time I've seen anyone refer to Obi-wan as Wan Kenobi. In their place will probably be a couple of officers who got caught spying.

How about Data, Picard, and Troi

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-03-25 12:28am

Are you allowed special characters in the Battles section? D. Wong never used them before as replacements.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-03-26 12:25am

Darth Negation wrote:Are you allowed special characters in the Battles section? D. Wong never used them before as replacements.

The "home team" got to keep what ever "special characters" it had in the original battle. The visiting team got all standard troops.