disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

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AniThyng
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disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by AniThyng »

To give this some other context, some of the western tourists who stripped on the mountain bafore the earthquake in Sabah are being charged with public indecency and barred from leaving Malaysia. With that out of the way, is this article making valid points or is it still ultimately apologia for religious/superstitious thinking in times of pain and crisis?

http://keluargakilljoy.com/2015/06/12/t ... arthquake/
Traitors: How Privileged Allies Failed Sabahans During The Kinabalu Earthquake
Posted on 12 June 2015 by tariqk

Before we begin, a moment of silence for the dead.

Nineteen people. Of five different nationalities. Six of the dead included children from Singapore, who no doubt treated this excursion as an exciting, if daring, adventure the way kids under the age of 12 often do. Four of them were experienced mountain staff, who had given their lives to make sure that the people who were under their care were as safe and happy as they could be. They are remembered fondly, not only by their families, but also by the many people who they have helped ascend Mt. Kinabalu.

But perhaps none of that matters to you. None of those deaths matter, nor the livelihoods of those that depend on the mountain and the facilities around it. Maybe the damage to infrastructure on Kinabalu is not a big deal. Or the schools and facilities around the region. Not a big deal. Not important enough.

Certainly not important enough for the international news, right? Because that’s what you recall hearing1: a Government Minister of Muslim-Majority2 Malaysia “blaming” the earthquake on “angry spirits”. Never mind that fellow Sabahans have pointed out that he was speaking as a man dealing with a massive tragedy, and that sometimes, you know, when people hurt, they tend to blame anything: the supernatural, in this case.

And it’s bad enough when white Europeans decide to make our nations their playgrounds, even co-opting and re-creating spaces that reflect our deeply racist past. It’s bad enough when white Europeans, a people with a narcissistic and racist history of barging into holy places with nude selfies for their gap yuh, do it again.

NAKED WHITE PEOPLE SPOIL EVERYTHING

It’s worse when even Malaysians join in in enabling these fuckers:

No, it isn’t the casualties of the earthquake, though those too were tragic of course. It isn’t the Malaysian government’s inept rescue operations. And it certainly isn’t the naked photos taken by foreign tourists atop the mountain.

No, the greatest tragedy of the Sabah earthquake is the response of many Malaysians to the foreign tourists stripping off on Mount Kinabalu for some harmless fun.

Was it, Shaun Tan? Was it some “harmless fun”? Is it harmless fun when someone comes into your domicile3, violates your boundaries and then ignores and belittles your protests? Is it harmless fun when your anger and hurt is used as examples of how “uneducated” and “childish” you are? Are subalterns never allowed their anger, for fear of staining the reputations of all subalterns forever and ever? Are they never allowed their grief? Must they conform to your ideas of “proper” protest and “correct” thought to be taken seriously, as “adults” and full human beings?

Here’s the way the narrative is being told right now, for many “educated” Malaysians:

A bunch of tourists strip on the summit of Mt. Kinabalu and pose naked.
An earthquake happens.
A Malaysian Minister blames the earthquake on angry spirits.

Sounds clear-cut, right? We can see who’s wrong here. It’s an easy narrative to fall into, as you can see from Kate Ng trying to explain to the erudite readers of the Guardian what happened:

Malaysia, despite its technological advancement and a strong desire for the world to see us as developed, is still a country steeped in culture and tradition. We are a nation in a state of transition, and, whatever you believe about the spiritual dimension of Mount Kinabalu, it’s important for all Malaysians that tourists treat us with respect. It’s the lack of consideration that these tourists displayed that really stings, regardless of how much store you put by the volcano’s sacred associations.

[…]

Malaysia needs to have a serious discussion about the best way to protect our culture. We are entitled to expect tourists to behave considerately. And we must be diligent in holding on to the way of life that makes our society so unique. But there is room for debate and development, for moderation. We claim to be a modern nation – we must live up to it. Blaming earthquakes on a group of tourists, no matter how they have behaved, will just not do.

Note how Ng talks about how Malaysia is stuck between True Modernity™ and primitive superstition tradition. Note the cringing, apologetic tone. Note the call for “moderation”, and how the issue is all about how we’re “blaming” the tourists and subjecting them to injustice. Note that someone who doesn’t even know that Mt. Kinabalu is a fucking pluton and not a fucking volcano4 is basically telling Malaysians how we should react.

Instead of following that narrative, let’s reframe it:

A bunch of tourists, directly contravening the taboo of the community that consider themselves custodian of the mountain, strip and pose naked.
Some time later, an earthquake happens. People die. Infrastructure is damaged. Livelihoods are affected. We call the people who survive heroes, but their livelihood is damaged, and it doesn’t look like we’ll step up for them.
a Chief Minister who not only holds a government post, but also the Paramount Leader of the Kadazandusun Cultural Association, now instead of dealing with one crisis5, has to deal with two. He speaks, not only as a Minister, but as a Sabahan and the Paramount Leader6 of his people, as Kinabalu is central to his experience too.
People, Malaysians, use #3 to dismiss the damage and pain felt for both #1 and #2.

Who’s the asshole now7?

Because that’s what it’s all about, really. It’s not about whether the spirits care if you’re naked or not. It’s not about whether they caused the earthquake or not. It’s about people being angered for having their boundaries violated and you responding by dismissing their pain and minimising their anger.

When people’s boundaries are violated, we call that abuse. When their narrative of abuse, their experience, their pain is dismissed or denied, we call that gas-lighting. It isn’t that difficult.

You do recall that the Dusun, like every other community in Malaysia, have had to face not decades but centuries of dismissal and dehumanization by colonial powers8. That these attempts at enforcing these actions are not only about laws and taboos, but demanding that we be treated with dignity? That we all have our sacred spaces, and we open them out to visitors in hopes that they will at least treat our spaces with respect?

I think what’s been most painful here isn’t really a reminder of how, to white tourists9. We’re basically a product. Our main concern isn’t about our dignity and worth as communities and human beings with agency, but how good our service is, and how much money we can bring in. That’s certainly a discussion we can have, but, right now, frankly:

SABAR SEMUA DISREGARD WHITE TEARS

No, what I guess still stings even now is how in many cases, the same voices that mock our fellow Malaysians are other Malaysians. That the most painful voices aren’t from “international”10 commentators, but from the effete Malaysian bourgeois liberal déraciné manque-elite. The ones who sip their flat whites and decry the rise of barbaric superstition amongst Malaysians. The ones who will talk about how they’re above racial and religious politics, yet engage in racism when talking about their “less advanced” and “less progressive” brethren.

I can deal with outsiders barging in — I think we have an entire stream of post-colonial thought that deals with that. The foe at the gates we can deal with. It’s the friendly fire that hurts.

Malaysians: You are literally spitting at the faces of people who are suffering right now when you belittle them for having “superstitious beliefs”, calling those beliefs “ridiculous”11, and focusing your attentions on how native people are getting it wrong and not being scientific about the fucking earthquake. Newsflash: no one cares what you think, asshole.

Also, that the anger that is being expressed, the hurt that is being felt, actually transcends religious and ethnic belief. I’ve seen Muslims that try to defend their Dusun brethren, not because they share that belief, but because they understand. Joseph Pairin Kitingan is Catholic. Literally, this pain they feel… they feel it as Sabahans, not as Muslims, Christians, or animists, or as a single ethnic group, but as a state, together12.

What they’re noticing is that, in their time of need, you spit at their face. Many of them will remember this. You’re trampling on the dignity of fellow Malaysians. You don’t believe in mountain spirits and ancestral worship? Fine. It’s not your belief. It’s not mine either. But so what? A community has had their taboos violated. And instead of helping, you are laughing at them.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by blowfish »

I would say it's stupid to strip naked in a culturally significant place in a deeply conservative place with serious hangups over seeing tits and dicks as a tourist because chances are someone will get sufficiently pissed off to call the cops on you as happened here.

That said, I mostly see pearl clutching over ~our precious rules and customs~ being violated. While complaining about a country halfway around the world being really backwards and full of retards is rarely productive, I would take the position of "drag regressives into the present day" if it happened here in Germany (in fact, whenever country bumpkins in Bavaria throw a fit over the importance of keeping crosses in schools or something like that, my response is "shut up assholes"). Right after a natural disaster might not be the best time to point out the locals are superstitious and backwards, but the problem I see is more with the PR angle of choosing a better time rather than the message itself. No, your precious feelings being hurt is not sufficient to make your culture exempt from criticism.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Purple »

On the other hand going to a foreign country and insulting their culture is frankly something that the people of said country should not be forced to stand for. If I walk into your house and spit in your face you should have every right to respond far more harshly than if I had done it in my house.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by blowfish »

Yeah, but the article is complaining more about the reaction inside the country than about tourists being dicks.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Purple »

blowfish wrote:Yeah, but the article is complaining more about the reaction inside the country than about tourists being dicks.
In which case you are free to take my statement as being one of disapproval toward said article and its writer.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by blowfish »

Purple wrote:In which case you are free to take my statement as being one of disapproval toward said article and its writer.
Uhhh... why? It's about Malaysians who feel insulted complaining that other Malaysians think being insulted is dumb.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by AniThyng »

blowfish wrote:
Purple wrote:In which case you are free to take my statement as being one of disapproval toward said article and its writer.
Uhhh... why? It's about Malaysians who feel insulted complaining that other Malaysians think being insulted is dumb.
And doing it with language I've associated with western social justice...
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Purple »

blowfish wrote:
Purple wrote:In which case you are free to take my statement as being one of disapproval toward said article and its writer.
Uhhh... why? It's about Malaysians who feel insulted complaining that other Malaysians think being insulted is dumb.
From my perspective it's like this:
1. The tourists are wrong.
2. The ones being insulted over it are right.
3. Those complaining against #2 are wrong.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Solauren »

Real Moral of the story:

DON'T POST YOUR VACATION PICTURES UNTIL YOU GET BACK.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Jub »

Purple wrote:
blowfish wrote:
Purple wrote:In which case you are free to take my statement as being one of disapproval toward said article and its writer.
Uhhh... why? It's about Malaysians who feel insulted complaining that other Malaysians think being insulted is dumb.
From my perspective it's like this:
1. The tourists are wrong.
2. The ones being insulted over it are right.
3. Those complaining against #2 are wrong.
How are the tourists wrong? Did they do anything that caused harm? Nope, this is just nationalist butthurt and I have no sympathy for nationalists. Who gives a shit what color a patch of land is on a map, we all share the same planet and should learn to fucking deal.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by AniThyng »

Jub wrote:
How are the tourists wrong? Did they do anything that caused harm? Nope, this is just nationalist butthurt and I have no sympathy for nationalists. Who gives a shit what color a patch of land is on a map, we all share the same planet and should learn to fucking deal.
Do you hold the same viewpoint about say, Native Americans being unhappy with disrespect shown to their tribal customs and boundaries?
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Jub »

AniThyng wrote:
Jub wrote:
How are the tourists wrong? Did they do anything that caused harm? Nope, this is just nationalist butthurt and I have no sympathy for nationalists. Who gives a shit what color a patch of land is on a map, we all share the same planet and should learn to fucking deal.
Do you hold the same viewpoint about say, Native Americans being unhappy with disrespect shown to their tribal customs and boundaries?
Pretty much. How does getting naked and taking pictures hurt anybody? This is just pearl clutching superstitious nonsense on the part of people that still think angry mountain spirits cause earthquakes; their feelings are just as irrelevant as Christian fundies whining about gays causing storms.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Purple »

Jub wrote:How are the tourists wrong? Did they do anything that caused harm? Nope, this is just nationalist butthurt and I have no sympathy for nationalists. Who gives a shit what color a patch of land is on a map, we all share the same planet and should learn to fucking deal.
They walked into a foreign country and performed acts which are insulting to their customs. That's basically the equivalent of me waking into your home and than insulting your family. It's not the insulting part that's the issue. It's the part where I deliberately go out of my way to go into your home and do so in the most in your face way possible. That is what turns an insult which can be ignored into an affront which can't. Once you go out of your way that much to rub your disrespect into someones face than it really does not matter if that someone is right to feel insulted by the actual act you are performing because the act of going out of your way to rub it in his face is insulting in its own right.

To use your Christian metaphor. It's the difference between having two homosexuals have sex in their own home and them doing it in a Christian Church in the middle of sermon whilst a storm is raging outside. It's the same act. But only one of the two is an offensive affront done in very poor taste.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Jub »

Purple wrote:They walked into a foreign country and performed acts which are insulting to their customs. That's basically the equivalent of me waking into your home and than insulting your family. It's not the insulting part that's the issue. It's the part where I deliberately go out of my way to go into your home and do so in the most in your face way possible.
Do you have proof that these people did this with any intent to cause offense? It seems to me like these people took the excuse of being in a secluded area to have a little fun out of doors. I see no harm in this what so ever. It didn't damage anything, it didn't hurt anybody, and it sure as fuck didn't cause an earthquake because it happened in some holy place.
That is what turns an insult which can be ignored into an affront which can't. Once you go out of your way that much to rub your disrespect into someones face than it really does not matter if that someone is right to feel insulted by the actual act you are performing because the act of going out of your way to rub it in his face is insulting in its own right.
Proof that they went out of their way to do this as an insult? The onus is on you to prove this assertation.
To use your Christian metaphor. It's the difference between having two homosexuals have sex in their own home and them doing it in a Christian Church in the middle of sermon whilst a storm is raging outside. It's the same act. But only one of the two is an offensive affront done in very poor taste.
This is a lot more like sneaking into a church and have sex after it's locked up for the night and then sharing the pictures with some friends later. A bit of dubious but harmless fun that only pisses people off because of their delusions that these places somehow matter more than other places. Once you take the irrational mindset of religion and prudism out of the way it becomes hard to see why anybody should give a shit.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Simon_Jester »

The thing is, Jub, your rights don't go away just because I decide you're exercising them "irrationally."

So we should ask the question: If you own a building or a piece of land, do you have a right to decide how it will or will not be used? Does your right to make that decision trump the right of random trespassers to decide that for you?

This is a yes-or-no question. Either you do have the right, or you don't.

If you do have the right, then it is completely irrelevant why you don't want people stripping naked or juggling geese or wearing white after Labor Day or whatever. It's your property, and you have a right to decide what is and is not an acceptable, respectful use of the property.

Other people are obliged to take the time and effort to learn what your expectations are, and follow them, because they are guests on your property.

They do not have the right to decide that your wishes and customs are "illogical" and that they are therefore entitled to ignore your wishes and do whatever they please.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Jub »

Simon_Jester wrote:The thing is, Jub, your rights don't go away just because I decide you're exercising them "irrationally."

So we should ask the question: If you own a building or a piece of land, do you have a right to decide how it will or will not be used? Does your right to make that decision trump the right of random trespassers to decide that for you?

This is a yes-or-no question. Either you do have the right, or you don't.
It's public land though and that makes a pretty big difference as far as I'm concerned. Private property I tend to feel a bit differently on simply because you paid for the right to police this land. What did a nation do to earn any given patch of public land?
Other people are obliged to take the time and effort to learn what your expectations are, and follow them, because they are guests on your property.

They do not have the right to decide that your wishes and customs are "illogical" and that they are therefore entitled to ignore your wishes and do whatever they please.
Except that nation states probably shouldn't own property as such and thus this shouldn't apply. Nations are a pretty shitty way to run things in the first place because if there's one thing that borders do it's prevent unity.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by AniThyng »

Jub wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:The thing is, Jub, your rights don't go away just because I decide you're exercising them "irrationally."

So we should ask the question: If you own a building or a piece of land, do you have a right to decide how it will or will not be used? Does your right to make that decision trump the right of random trespassers to decide that for you?

This is a yes-or-no question. Either you do have the right, or you don't.
It's public land though and that makes a pretty big difference as far as I'm concerned. Private property I tend to feel a bit differently on simply because you paid for the right to police this land. What did a nation do to earn any given patch of public land?
Other people are obliged to take the time and effort to learn what your expectations are, and follow them, because they are guests on your property.

They do not have the right to decide that your wishes and customs are "illogical" and that they are therefore entitled to ignore your wishes and do whatever they please.
Except that nation states probably shouldn't own property as such and thus this shouldn't apply. Nations are a pretty shitty way to run things in the first place because if there's one thing that borders do it's prevent unity.
Are you seriously reframing the debate into "borders shouldn't exist and nations and the people living in them are not entitled to enforce "irrational" laws*"?

*as determined by whom? Surely not democracy, as you can imagine the demographics are rather against you on a global scale...
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Thanas »

This is a meeting of massive dicks meeting superstitious and backwards people. Wile I do not think the tourists should be killed or so, I do think their dickitude was beyond bounds of common decency.

Yes, the people are backwards. Yes, their attitudes are not befitting modern culture. But guess what? You are still in their country. You were warned specifically not to do this kind of crazy shit. You were warned that the people there take this very seriously. You were a guest. And then you decide to go "Fuck it, they don't matter, Imma gonna pull out my dick anyway". I mean, the amount of sheer arrogance and disrespect is staggering. I would jail their ass on that basis alone. Toss them into jail for a few weeks, maybe that will tell them that actions have consequences, especially when those actions consist of shitting on your hosts table.

At the same time, education is surely lacking in an area if people believe showing your dick causes earthquakes. But if people think westerners are much better then they should watch the PATRIOTS get bent out of shape whenever a third-world population does bad things to OLD GLORY. This goes for almost any western nation, but the USA are the most visible example of this.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Purple »

@Jub

You do not seem to realize what I was saying. I was going to write a long post but Simon_Jester and Thanas beat me to it and basically said all I would have.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by AniThyng »

I can't help but think people didn't actually read the article or care to address the implications of what we do when we dismiss the natives as stupid and superstitious.
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Thanas »

AniThyng wrote:I can't help but think people didn't actually read the article or care to address the implications of what we do when we dismiss the natives as stupid and superstitious.
Who is that directed at? Certainly not Jub alone, for you are speaking in plural form. So, who is your snippet directed at?
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by AniThyng »

Thanas wrote:
AniThyng wrote:I can't help but think people didn't actually read the article or care to address the implications of what we do when we dismiss the natives as stupid and superstitious.
Who is that directed at? Certainly not Jub alone, for you are speaking in plural form. So, who is your snippet directed at?
Your viewpoint, while legitimate and certainly in line with the views of Malaysians apologizing for their "backward and superstitious" countrymen (for what it is worth, I do not believe that these Sabahans are any less educated than the rest of us - nor do they literally believe that there is a direct correlation between the disrespect and the earthquake), still doesn't really cut to the heart of the matter - that to mock and insult Sabahans for being "backward" and "stupid" for holding to their traditional beliefs in a time of crisis is, to quote the article again (honstly because I don't speak SJW, I only can sort of grasp it) :

"
No, what I guess still stings even now is how in many cases, the same voices that mock our fellow Malaysians are other Malaysians. That the most painful voices aren’t from “international”10 commentators, but from the effete Malaysian bourgeois liberal déraciné manque-elite. The ones who sip their flat whites and decry the rise of barbaric superstition amongst Malaysians. The ones who will talk about how they’re above racial and religious politics, yet engage in racism when talking about their “less advanced” and “less progressive” brethren.

I can deal with outsiders barging in — I think we have an entire stream of post-colonial thought that deals with that. The foe at the gates we can deal with. It’s the friendly fire that hurts.

Malaysians: You are literally spitting at the faces of people who are suffering right now when you belittle them for having “superstitious beliefs”, calling those beliefs “ridiculous”11, and focusing your attentions on how native people are getting it wrong and not being scientific about the fucking earthquake. Newsflash: no one cares what you think, asshole.
"


ALso for the record, I probably count as one of those "bourgeois liberal flat white sipping elites" so take that as you will.
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Thanas
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Thanas »

AniThyng wrote:Your viewpoint, while legitimate and certainly in line with the views of Malaysians apologizing for their "backward and superstitious" countrymen (for what it is worth, I do not believe that these Sabahans are any less educated than the rest of us - nor do they literally believe that there is a direct correlation between the disrespect and the earthquake), still doesn't really cut to the heart of the matter - that to mock and insult Sabahans for being "backward" and "stupid" for holding to their traditional beliefs in a time of crisis is, to quote the article again (honstly because I don't speak SJW, I only can sort of grasp it) :
I don't see the problem here. Everybody is free to believe, but nobody is free to demand other people cannot think the believes are silly. This is not racism either and nobody has yet convincingly explained to me how it is, especially because thinking the beliefs to be unfounded in reality =/= thinking the tourists are right and do not deserve to be punished for acting in the manner in which they did.

So what exactly is the problem here?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by AniThyng »

Thanas wrote:
AniThyng wrote:Your viewpoint, while legitimate and certainly in line with the views of Malaysians apologizing for their "backward and superstitious" countrymen (for what it is worth, I do not believe that these Sabahans are any less educated than the rest of us - nor do they literally believe that there is a direct correlation between the disrespect and the earthquake), still doesn't really cut to the heart of the matter - that to mock and insult Sabahans for being "backward" and "stupid" for holding to their traditional beliefs in a time of crisis is, to quote the article again (honstly because I don't speak SJW, I only can sort of grasp it) :
I don't see the problem here. Everybody is free to believe, but nobody is free to demand other people cannot think the believes are silly. This is not racism either and nobody has yet convincingly explained to me how it is, especially because thinking the beliefs to be unfounded in reality =/= thinking the tourists are right and do not deserve to be punished for acting in the manner in which they did.

So what exactly is the problem here?
You don't see how being called "superstitious and backwards" even while agreeing that the tourists should just take their punishment because they deserved it for being dicks can be construed as racism or at least condescension towards the natives*?

*the term natives here is itself interesting in its implications - some Sabahans (and Sarawakians) would opine that they traded colonialism from London in for colonialism from Kuala Lumpur...
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AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P
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Thanas
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Re: disrespectful western tourists and earthquakes

Post by Thanas »

AniThyng wrote:You don't see how being called "superstitious and backwards" even while agreeing that the tourists should just take their punishment because they deserved it for being dicks can be construed as racism or at least condescension towards the natives*?
How the fuck is that racism?

And if people feel that calling their religion supersitious and backwards is condescending, I guess the only way to not be condescending is to ban all discussion about the factual basis of religions.
*the term natives here is itself interesting in its implications - some Sabahans (and Sarawakians) would opine that they traded colonialism from London in for colonialism from Kuala Lumpur...
I haven't used the term natives, so wtf are you on here?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
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