Star Wars: Rebels

[Rogue 9]

Ghetto edit: There's also a clip on their Facebook page that they haven't put on YouTube yet showing a Corvette under fire from an Imperial light warship, and it takes much more fire (from presumably heavier guns) before the commander announces they're losing shields and must withdraw. This is just confusing, apart from it just being Vader and that's all the explanation we're getting (assuming, of course, that Vader isn't immediately following up on a larger engagement).

[Crazedwraith]

You could just... wait and see what it's like in the context of the actual episode before whining about it?

One thing that immediately leaps to mind is your scene with it taking a beating from a cap ship could come just before Vader's attack and that's why Vader's strafing did knock the shields down.

[Rogue 9]

They're not the same ship (the second clip is a CR90, the first is clearly not), so it really can't be the same beating, though there could be another, as I edited in above while you were posting.

[Lord Revan]

the big ship seems to be a carrier of sorts for the A-wings of Phoenix squad (or at least that's how it seemed in the trailer) for all we know it's actually weaker then CR90s dispite being physically larger.

We have to remember that at this point few if any rebel ships were built for the rebellion and most of their cap ships would be "loans" from planetary defense forces, out of date surplus or stuff they've salvaged. For all we know that large ship is "police" ship meant to smugglers and pirates and is little more then a mobile fighter launch platform/C&C centre and thus doesn't have shields rated for capital ship combat.

[Mange]

There's a shot of the ship alongside some CR90s in this promo piece (the timestamp goes right to it) and it's apparently significantly larger than a Corvette. Which makes the trivial shield failure even more perplexing.

On a side-note, it seems as if the corvettes has been cut down in size slightly. In the SW.com databank, they're listed as being 126.68 meters in length: StarWars.com (It's not a canon source of course and I don't know what it reflects.)

[The Romulan Republic]

Something I just noticed in the video where Sabine shoots at Vader a while back:

While we often see Force users deflecting blaster fire, its a lot less common seeing them deflect it back at the shooter, but she fires two shots and Vader deflects both of them at her with pretty much perfect accuracy. One hits her in the chest and one hits her in the head (both probably lethal shots without the armour).

Certainly says something about Vader's skill.

[RogueIce]

You could just... wait and see what it's like in the context of the actual episode before whining about it?

One thing that immediately leaps to mind is your scene with it taking a beating from a cap ship could come just before Vader's attack and that's why Vader's strafing did knock the shields down.

This is pretty much the case, IMO. Except it's not "just before" but a little delayed. Still...read on.

It's not explicitly spelled out, but we do see the flagship take some damage when in battle against other capships (those Imperial freighters/patrol ships from the first season). They then mention needing shield generators, three of which the Ghost crew succeed in bringing back...except Vader jumps them almost immediately, so they didn't have the chance to install them.

Again, it's not explicitly said at any point, but the pieces are there if you care to put them together.

[Alyrium Denryle]

You could just... wait and see what it's like in the context of the actual episode before whining about it?

One thing that immediately leaps to mind is your scene with it taking a beating from a cap ship could come just before Vader's attack and that's why Vader's strafing did knock the shields down.

This is pretty much the case, IMO. Except it's not "just before" but a little delayed. Still...read on.

It's not explicitly spelled out, but we do see the flagship take some damage when in battle against other capships (those Imperial freighters/patrol ships from the first season). They then mention needing shield generators, three of which the Ghost crew succeed in bringing back...except Vader jumps them almost immediately, so they didn't have the chance to install them.

Again, it's not explicitly said at any point, but the pieces are there if you care to put them together.

Plus, there is something that does seem remarkably consistent in Star Wars. Get close enough and shields stop functioning or become much less effective, and we know fighters can fly right through (though may experience turbulence). Which makes fighters... you know...relevant.

It could be a simple threshold bubble, but it might be a three dimensional effect that has depth to it, so there might still be *some* limited effectiveness against energy weapons unless one hugs the hull.

[Rogue 9]

You could just... wait and see what it's like in the context of the actual episode before whining about it?

One thing that immediately leaps to mind is your scene with it taking a beating from a cap ship could come just before Vader's attack and that's why Vader's strafing did knock the shields down.

This is pretty much the case, IMO. Except it's not "just before" but a little delayed. Still...read on.

It's not explicitly spelled out, but we do see the flagship take some damage when in battle against other capships (those Imperial freighters/patrol ships from the first season). They then mention needing shield generators, three of which the Ghost crew succeed in bringing back...except Vader jumps them almost immediately, so they didn't have the chance to install them.

Again, it's not explicitly said at any point, but the pieces are there if you care to put them together.

Plus, there is something that does seem remarkably consistent in Star Wars. Get close enough and shields stop functioning or become much less effective, and we know fighters can fly right through (though may experience turbulence). Which makes fighters... you know...relevant.

It could be a simple threshold bubble, but it might be a three dimensional effect that has depth to it, so there might still be *some* limited effectiveness against energy weapons unless one hugs the hull.

We see Star Wars shields to be hull-hugging on a couple of separate occasions, though - first in A New Hope when we (and the Rebel pilots) learn that the exhaust port is ray shielded (the port itself, not a bubble around it that they could fly through and then employ laser cannons) and second in Return of the Jedi when an X-wing makes an attack run against a Star Destroyer's bridge tower and the shield flashes are directly against the hull until the bridge shield fails on the last shot.

[Zixinus]

I saw the episode.

One thing I did like is Vader's portrayal and how the creators played with it. Vader is shown more than just a thug with a lightsaber and a mask, he shows careful planning like a capable military leader he supposed to be. The only real error was when he went up against the Rebel fleet solo, or rather that the star destroyers didn't launch their own fighters to prevent the rebel fleet escaping. Then again those faults may be the Admiral's. At no point did he go apeshit, even with the admiral (at least, not shown onscreen) even though everyone expected to.

The fight chirography is also interesting. It is much less flashy than it was in Clone Wars yet also a bit more realistic.

The only problem I have is with Asoka. She pretty much did nothing the entire episode other than distract Vader. For a moment I actually thought they didn't call Asoka's voice actress in for the episode. She went into the Ghost for what exactly? Shouldn't she be commanding the ships?

Oh, and I am glad we are fully done with Lothal.

[Batman]

The ray shielded exhaust port doesn't require hull-hugging shields-just a bubble small enough that getting into and firing from inside it weren't an option.
And thanks to TPM we know they can make pretty damn small bubble shields.

[Adam Reynolds]

The ray shielded exhaust port doesn't require hull-hugging shields-just a bubble small enough that getting into and firing from inside it weren't an option.
And thanks to TPM we know they can make pretty damn small bubble shields.

Whether or not the shields are actually hull hugging(in the sense of being a integrated with the ship's armor) is irrelevant. The point is that they are generally far too close to the hull for fighters to fly under them. Looking at Brian's examples, I find just as much evidence that fighter's can't fly under shields as that they can. A major example he uses is the fighter attack against Malvolence. But the problem here is that Plo Koon was worried about casualties. Why would that matter if they didn't have to penetrate the shields? The best film example is obviously the first Death Star. But there is nothing to indicate that those shields are representative of regular capital ships. Dodonna specifically states "or they would have provided a tighter defense." That to me implies that the shields of the Death Star are not representative of a weakness in technology, as the Empire was overconfident enough to save money on tighter shielding. This was a mistake that they did not repeat in ROTJ, in which no possible attack could make it through the shields.

The best evidence in favor of shield permeability comes from the Clone Wars episodes Grevious Intrigue and Cloak of Darkness. In Grevious Intrigue, Anakin is able to fly up next to Grevious' flagship and board it. This could be rationalized as the shields being down already as Grevious clearly knew it was a trap. Cloak of Darkness featured dedicated Seperatist boarding craft attacking a Venator. This is probably the best example of shields being penetrated, unless we assume for whatever reason they were down. Given that this scenario appears to be an outlier, it might be the best assumption.

The fundamental problem with his theory is that it is based on the idea that a known weakness of theater shields(that exists because they must touch the ground) would also apply to a capital ship.

[Batman]

Since when must theatre shields touch the ground? And if they do, how did the AT-ATs and other assorted imperial forces walk in under the Hoth one?

[Anacronian]

We see Star Wars shields to be hull-hugging on a couple of separate occasions, though - first in A New Hope when we (and the Rebel pilots) learn that the exhaust port is ray shielded (the port itself, not a bubble around it that they could fly through and then employ laser cannons) and second in Return of the Jedi when an X-wing makes an attack run against a Star Destroyer's bridge tower and the shield flashes are directly against the hull until the bridge shield fails on the last shot.

Funny by watching that clip I saw something I have never noticed before - Wedge actually closes the S-Foils on his X-wing when diving between the tubes that claims the Millennium Falcons radar dish, It happens very fast but I'm sure I'm seeing it.. just a neat detail.

[Rogue 9]

Just watched the episode. Spoiler

I suppose they were short of military grade shield generators. I get that they were establishing Vader as a threat, and they did a commendable job, but I still think losing their command ship in its first appearance was a bit much. I don't see the point of introducing Phoenix Squadron and the other Rebels if they're just going to immediately get wiped out.

[Zixinus]

Just watched the episode. Spoiler

I suppose they were short of military grade shield generators. I get that they were establishing Vader as a threat, and they did a commendable job, but I still think losing their command ship in its first appearance was a bit much. I don't see the point of introducing Phoenix Squadron and the other Rebels if they're just going to immediately get wiped out.

Actually that was a good point to do. It helps sell the idea that this is a war and that the Empire is a big threat, especially Vader. You cannot establish a credible threat and not lose people. A threat that doesn't at least decimate your numbers (and valuable things) isn't very credible. Spoiler

Vader's main mission was still a success: he routed Rebels from Lothal and seriously hurt them. While he still left a few corvettes, his only real failure was a failure to capture the Ghost that contained known Jedi. Which he might have if the Admiral would have allowed his tractor-beam operator to pick the right moment for capture.

[Lord Revan]

Spoiler

I think the point was to say "anyone can die" without killing of any of the main characters too early.
and also to show that yes that the Empire is a threat you should take seriously.

[Rogue 9]

Spoiler

Yes I know, it's just that I think it would have been more effective had they taken time to introduce these people before killing them; it has more impact that way.

Speaking of which, on what did Kanan base his assumption that the people of Tarkintown were taken captive rather than all killed? Because the latter is much, MUCH more Vader's M.O.

[Adam Reynolds]

Since when must theatre shields touch the ground? And if they do, how did the AT-ATs and other assorted imperial forces walk in under the Hoth one?

Because walkers have ground contact. This was directly shown in TPM with the battle droids penetrating the Gungan shield. It would explain why the Empire used walkers instead of repulsorcraft despite their weaknesses.

I thought this was obvious. In any case, this was what Brian based his concept on, a scene of Anakin and Ashoka explaining the weakness in droidika shields. And there is nothing indicating that capital ships have this weakness, especially when the DS2 shield shows that it can be done without this.

[Thanas]

Ahsoka did nothing, but that is to be expected since she got the shock of her life.

However, they redrew her in a way I do not care much for, she just looks very angular now, especially her face. Shame, since the other art stuff looked much better than Season 1.

EDIT: Oh and how is Vader a complete unknown in the galaxy at this point?

[Rogue 9]

Oh, and for the speculation upthread about what Vader would do with Ahsoka if he found her, that came up in the Rebels Recon thing they do after every episode, and Dave Filoni said that if there was a top five list of people Vader wants to kill, Obi-Wan tops the list and Yoda and Ahsoka are basically tied for second. So much for that idea.

[Anacronian]

It is a nice touch that Vader's voice does sound younger even though James Earl Jones have gotten older.

[FedRebel]

Spoiler

Speaking of which, on what did Kanan base his assumption that the people of Tarkintown were taken captive rather than all killed? Because the latter is much, MUCH more Vader's M.O.

he's trying to give hope, I'm willing to bet he senses the truth...and if Ezra and the others knew...it would cause great despair.

Oh, and for the speculation upthread about what Vader would do with Ahsoka if he found her, that came up in the Rebels Recon thing they do after every episode, and Dave Filoni said that if there was a top five list of people Vader wants to kill, Obi-Wan tops the list and Yoda and Ahsoka are basically tied for second. So much for that idea.

All I want to see/hear is..
Vader:"Hello...Snips"

What'd be a tad too dark of a concept would be if Vader turns Asoka and she becomes a recurring big bad until Kanan and Ezra turn her back in the final season...leading her to promptly sacrifice herself so the Ghost crew can escape.

[Thanas]

That would be rather fan-fiction-like.

[Zixinus]

To be honest, I don't think Vader would ever say that. He is no longer Anakin Skywalker, he is Darth Vader now. Notice he calls her "the apprentice" not "my apprentice". I think the habit of calling yourselves new names may be more than just a habit, it may have a reason for it. It may be a psychological trick to make the Sith gain greater control over themselves and their emotions, to cope the energies with the Dark Side gives them.

Asoka might ignite some sort of loyalty in Vader and I hope they manage to make it an interesting scene. It may echo what will happen in ROTJ.