Another perspective on the recent Supreme Court decision

[Zaune]

From The Daily Dot:

I'm queer and I'm against same-sex marriage

The United States Supreme Court is expected to rule on the constitutionality of states banning same-sex marriage any day now, and the landmark decision will undoubtedly trigger widespread celebration and everyone on Facebook changing their profile pic to some symbol of “equality.” As a queer person, I have an unpopular but not altogether unheard-of opinion on the matter: I’m against gay marriage.

OK, maybe “against” is a strong word, but saying it that way serves as a conversation starter. Of course, I’m supportive of every marginalized person living in the United States having the exact same rights and privileges as a straight, white, able-bodied cisgender male—the paragon of rights and privilege in our society. If a same-sex couple wants to contractually declare their relationship and file it on public record for the various benefits the U.S. government bestows upon married couples, then they should be able to do so.

My problem—and I’d wager to say the problem—is with how and why legalizing same-sex marriage has been arbitrarily thrust forward as the cornerstone of the “LGBT rights movement,” when there are so many other needs, namely protections regarding the right to basic human safety, that still evade the queer community.

Supporters of gay marriage are prioritizing the right to wed when, thanks to these handy equality maps from the Movement Advancement Project, we know that:

• only 19 states and Washington, D.C., have laws in place guarding against employment and housing discrimination on the basis of both sexual orientation and gender identity
• only 17 states + D.C. have non-discrimination laws in place that protect so-called “public accommodation” rights on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity—meaning that they “protect LGBT people from being unfairly refused service or entry to, or from facing discrimination in, places accessible to the public… including retail stores, restaurants, parks, hotels, doctors’ offices, and banks”
• only 35 states + D.C. have laws in place that give same-sex couples “equal or substantially equivalent standing to other family members” when it comes to medical decision-making
• only 15 states + DC cover sexual orientation and gender identity in their hate crime laws
• only seven states restrict discrimination on becoming foster/adoptive parents based on LGBT status

The right to same-sex marriage has taken precedence over the right to everything from employment and housing options for the LGBTQ+ community to literally existing in the public space without being murdered. How did this happen?

Well, pretty much the same way everything else in America happens. When the rights of a marginalized community come to the forefront of the national consciousness, they get there because they’ve been bolstered by people in power.

The most powerful members of a marginalized community tend to be the ones with the least intersectional identities, thereby making them more palatable for mainstream consumption. In the case of the LGBTQ+ rights movement, this means white cis gay men hold all the power, and the causes they choose to take up become the causes that get mainstream attention.

The right to same-sex marriage has taken precedence over the right to everything from employment and housing options for the LGBTQ+ community to literally existing in the public space without being murdered.
And we need look no further than the largest LGBT advocacy group and lobbying organization in the country to see a stark example of this problem. The Human Rights Campaign (HRC) has long been criticized within the queer community for leaving behind the trans population, women, and queer people of color in their myopic crusade for marriage equality. Last week, an internal report of the HRC conducted by outside consultants confirmed that staffers found the working environment to be “a white men’s club.”

“Leadership culture is experienced as homogenous—gay, white, male,” the report exclusively obtained by BuzzFeed states. “Exclusion was broad-based and hit all identity groups within HRC. A judgmental working environment, particularly concerning women and feminine-identified individuals, was highlighted in survey responses.”

Female staffers complained of sexism at the hands of gay male staffers; more than half of multiracial and Latino employees complained of unfair race-based treatment; 83 percent of genderqueer staffers felt they received unfair treatment based on their gender identity; and trans* staffers expressed a fear of coming out based on the HR department’s notoriously poor handling of transitions, name changes, and pronoun changes.

If these things are true about the most powerful LGBT rights organization in America, then it’s no surprise that their primary cause may not be representative of the most pressing needs of the LGBTQ+ community as a whole.

If privilege is a freshly baked pie of access, and every white cis straight man gets a whole pie, then a white cis gay man still gets much more pie than, say, a trans woman of color. This whole “most things white cis straight guys can do, white cis gay guys can also do” idea has one notable exception—getting married. Is it any coincidence then, that gay marriage has become the face of the mainstream LGBT rights movement?

And here’s the other thing about marriage equality: Marriage as an institution isn’t exactly on the progressive millennial radar. More and more, we see forward-thinking millennials (at their tamest) fighting the Wedding Industrial Complex, and (at their most radical) recognizing government-subsidized monogamy as a bullshit construct borne of a vested patriarchal interest in subjugating women.

Why should all the rights and benefits of legal marriage only be set aside for monogamous romantic couples? Aside from LGBTQ+ rights, what about the rights of people in poly partnerships, or those who have found non-romantic companionship, or those who have chosen their families in countless other ways?

White cis gay men hold all the power, and the causes they choose to take up become the causes that get mainstream attention.
We are statistically a queerer, more gender fluid, and less monogamous generation than any before ours. Jamming queer relationships into heteronormative, patriarchal molds is not equality, and it’s not helping the most disenfranchised, endangered members of our community live safer lives.

Plus, the be-all-end-all way in which the mainstream LGBT rights movement frames marriage equality gives straight allies the mistaken impression that federally recognized same-sex marriage = all the work of equality being done forever, when, as outlined above, it doesn’t really address many issues that could make a significant impact on the quality of a queer person’s life.

If the SCOTUS decision comes down outlawing bans on same-sex marriage at the state level, then I sort of dread the inevitable Facebook feed full of self-congratulatory “we did it!” posts from the same straight friends who still struggle with constantly misgendering my trans* friends.

So maybe, instead of jumping on the bandwagon in the case of good news, and changing your profile picture or posting the celebratory meme-du-jour or penning a tearful post about how proud you are of this great nation and its strides toward equality, you might stop and think about how useful the right to marry really is to the least powerful members of the LGBTQ+ community.

Maybe instead, you can use your feed to lend visibility to the great advocacy work of a trans teen, the wrongful conviction of a queer woman of color, or Michigan’s newly legalized discrimination against LGBT adoptions.

If the nation makes a stride in recognizing same-sex marriage, then above all, it’s still a stride that’s too little, too late. To celebrate it, as an ally, is to serve yourself a baking sheet full of proverbial cookies when there is so, so much more work to be done on behalf of the queer community. Your job as an ally is to keep making space, to keep using your privilege to amplify marginalized voices.

And your work never stops.

I don't agree with all of this, but there's some extremely good points in there. Especially the part where a lot of people are going to declare "Mission Accomplished" and pretend there isn't a huge amount more work to do. (See also this whole Confederate flag thing.)

[NoXion]

It's one thing to recognise that the accomplishment of equal marriage across the States is by no means the end of the struggle for equality; there is still a lot of work to do.

But to say that one is "against equality" especially when one is ostensibly not a bigot, strikes me as very poor rhetoric indeed. The facts speak for themselves, I don't think such gimmicks are necessary.

[Zaune]

It gets people's attention, though, I've got to give it that much.

[NoXion]

It gets people's attention, though, I've got to give it that much.

So would screaming "I'M A FUCKING FASCIST", but I don't think most reasonable people would be too mollified by subsequent explanations that "Actually I'm not a Fascist at all, I just wanted to draw your attention to to these worthy anti-Fascist campaigns". That's an extreme example but the logic seems to be the same.

[Gaidin]

He's not really screaming "I'm a fascist" so much as it sounds like an unpartnered(if I read correctly) homosexual with a re-prioritized list of issues.

[salm]

I think the article is in gereral rather silly but the article has a point with what it says about "how proud you are of this great nation". Stuff like that and "USA, USA" chants strike me as rather pathetic. You are praising the nation that until a couple of days ago didn´t even give you the right to marry and still has plenty of discriminatory issues to solve.

[Joun_Lord]

People are proud when the nation finally does the right thing. People want to feel good about this decision. While there is still plenty of work to do this ruling is a good step in the right direction and one people should feel proud about.

Just dumping on it, the people who feel good about it, and the nation its happening in seems counterproductive. Its a bit like electing Oblama. Its something people felt proud of, the nation was to the point atleast a little over half were willing to elect a funny named black man. Then people dumped on those that elected him, called them racist for voting for him even if they didn't vote for him because of his skin color (I didn't, I voted because the other guy was a whore and his VP pick was insane), told people they should be ashamed of themselves and the country because there is still bad shit with racism happening.

The excitement of voting for him evaporated and I'm sure some support for working towards greater goals did along with it. Nobody wants to do something like that when they are being bitched about because they haven't done enough yet, called bad people because they haven't made all the bad shit disappear at once.

Such things are generally incremental and done so over pretty hefty odds and opposition just as dedicated. One can feel proud they are making progress, proud the nation is improving even if it hasn't improved as much as one would like or is needed.

While the fight isn't over THIS mission is accomplished and one can build upon it and the pride it generates to greater accomplishments. Or bitch about it and demean those who found the fight to be worthy of being proud aboot and have people say fuck it, fight ain't worth it.

[Lord Pounder]

On the surface it looks like the writer is saying because he doesn't agree with marriage so fuck anyone who values it as a goal.

Reading deeper I think the writer misses a vital factoid. LGBT people have often, wrongly, been disregarded as being promiscuous and their relationships viewed as superficial and certainly more flawed than cis norm relationship. Being able to stand in front of your friends and family and publicly make that Declaration of Love is hugely important to making gay marriage lose the gay stigma and just become marriage.

I'm currently in a rare part of the UK run by bigoted assholes who even refuse to discuss the idea of marriage equality in parliament, despite the Republic of Ireland showing the world how it's done and putting it to public vote and seeing it pass by a significant majority (only one county out of 26 had a majority no vote). I'm currently in a very good loving relationship and we've discussed marriage. But I've vowed I will not marry until all my friends can.

America has a lot of fucked up employment laws and they absolutely need addressed. Supporting marriage equality is the vehicle that should be used to highlight these issues. It is Pride season and with the wave of momentum this has created it's time to strike while the iron is hot not shit on the parade.

[Gaidin]

America has a lot of fucked up employment laws and they absolutely need addressed. Supporting marriage equality is the vehicle that should be used to highlight these issues. It is Pride season and with the wave of momentum this has created it's time to strike while the iron is hot not shit on the parade.

I think that's pretty much the catch. The military action let it drive the marriage itself. And the marriage action might let it drive the rest if an obstacle starts showing. The different actions sort of basically put chips in the overall wall.

[salm]

People are proud when the nation finally does the right thing. People want to feel good about this decision. While there is still plenty of work to do this ruling is a good step in the right direction and one people should feel proud about.

Just dumping on it, the people who feel good about it, and the nation its happening in seems counterproductive. Its a bit like electing Oblama. Its something people felt proud of, the nation was to the point atleast a little over half were willing to elect a funny named black man. Then people dumped on those that elected him, called them racist for voting for him even if they didn't vote for him because of his skin color (I didn't, I voted because the other guy was a whore and his VP pick was insane), told people they should be ashamed of themselves and the country because there is still bad shit with racism happening.

The excitement of voting for him evaporated and I'm sure some support for working towards greater goals did along with it. Nobody wants to do something like that when they are being bitched about because they haven't done enough yet, called bad people because they haven't made all the bad shit disappear at once.

Such things are generally incremental and done so over pretty hefty odds and opposition just as dedicated. One can feel proud they are making progress, proud the nation is improving even if it hasn't improved as much as one would like or is needed.

While the fight isn't over THIS mission is accomplished and one can build upon it and the pride it generates to greater accomplishments. Or bitch about it and demean those who found the fight to be worthy of being proud aboot and have people say fuck it, fight ain't worth it.

Oh, I understand the mechanism behind it. I still find it rather silly.
Perhaps it´s just a cultural difference.

[Joun_Lord]

Oh, I understand the mechanism behind it. I still find it rather silly.
Perhaps it´s just a cultural difference.

Well clearly you ain't a proud American with a turgid freedum boner and some red white and blue balls of patriotism!

No but really, Americans seem to have pride in their nation that many Europeons I've spoken to seem to find alien. Even those that can be considered Patriots of their nations, go into national service and all that, find the American obsession of pride in ones nation even when its doing nothing to be proud about a bit odd. Like a German guy I talked to once who was a former Bundyswear that loved Germany but wasn't some flag waving sycophant, he'd speak ill of his country and admit shame in some of its actions. He in particular was quite angry about Germany's kowtowing to American interests over that Muslim German guy abducted by the CIA and sodomized at some black site.

Americans tend to be unwilling to entertain any disruptions of the fantasy of American perfection. Some feel that any speaking of terrible things done by America is just because that person hates America and Americans (which for some it might be) much like how Christians do the same thing (I recently got banned from another board for calling out some orthodox dude as being incredibly prideful about how pious he was after being accused of hating Christians for it).

I personally find it odd that one would not have any pride in their country, even for the good, but yeah cultural differences.

[Lord Revan]

Americans pride for their nation is like a child's pride where if you're proud of something it must be the "best thing ever!" no arguments, while alot of European countries (or more exactly the people of those countries) have a more mature take about it where you can be proud to be citizen of (*insert country here*) and still admit there's faults in your nation of choice.

[loomer]

Unfortunately, Australia is increasingly skewing to the American model of national pride and patriotism. I'm damn proud to be Australian but also deeply ashamed of what my nation is doing, which the current government pretty much views as total disloyalty.

[Simon_Jester]

Americans pride for their nation is like a child's pride where if you're proud of something it must be the "best thing ever!" no arguments, while alot of European countries (or more exactly the people of those countries) have a more mature take about it where you can be proud to be citizen of (*insert country here*) and still admit there's faults in your nation of choice.

...I know lots of Americans who feel the latter way about the US.

The childlike version of patriotism exists, it's definitely a thing, but it's not a universal thing.

[Lord Revan]

Americans pride for their nation is like a child's pride where if you're proud of something it must be the "best thing ever!" no arguments, while alot of European countries (or more exactly the people of those countries) have a more mature take about it where you can be proud to be citizen of (*insert country here*) and still admit there's faults in your nation of choice.

...I know lots of Americans who feel the latter way about the US.

The childlike version of patriotism exists, it's definitely a thing, but it's not a universal thing.

Obviously it's not universal but you'll have to admit that an outsider(like myself) could be excused thinking it was universal seeing how vocal the childlike patriots are.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Obviously it's not universal but you'll have to admit that an outsider(like myself) could be excused thinking it was universal seeing how vocal the childlike patriots are.

It's like the same sex marriage issue. The majority of US citizens are not this childish, and are not opposed to same sex marriage; it's just that the segment of the population that is happens to be very, very loud (and, perhaps more importantly, often tacitly or openly supported by big business interests).

[Napoleon the Clown]

I'm sure we could create an entire thread about the nuances among the American population and their pride in the country. You've got the people that think the country can do no wrong, and anything that happens that they don't like is because America has been stolen by evil, awful whatevers. Then you've got those that recognize that the country has done good and bad both and that you can celebrate the good while demanding better.


As far as the blog post in the OP is concerned, I can think of a way that this helps transmen and transwomen out there. I have a pair of friends that benefited from legal recognition of same sex marriage, one of whom is a transwoman. Because the government views her as being legally male, her marriage is legally viewed as a same sex marriage. Vermont and Minnesota both recognized same sex marriage at the time. Due to health issues, she's unable to work a full-time job. Marriage, in this case one that the law views as same sex, has allowed her to be on a health plan that will cover the costs of transitioning as she desires. I'm going to speculate that she isn't the only person out there thus benefited. I will grant that making it easier to change your gender on legal documents is a must. Even still, this little bit of progress will help transmen and transwomen out there that love someone that the law considers the same sex.

There's still a long way to go, yes. But even this small step has huge gains. Frankly, it's immature to say "I hate this because it didn't accomplish everything." Far better to say that it isn't over yet and we should not stop working toward every additional bit of progress that can be had. There are still lots of people left out in the cold, and legal protections for gender identity and sexual orientation should be enacted. But I'm not gonna bemoan this happening while more is to be done. I'm going to be happy about each step of progress. In the real world it is usually a slow, arduous process. In my view, it would be a far better message to say that we need to keep fighting for equality because there's still work to be done.

[K. A. Pital]

Good comment, NtC. The best I've seen in this thread so far.

Yes, everything did not magically fix itself as a result of this decision. No, it is not a bad or insignificant decision. I think that underplaying the importance of marriage for the underclass and saying that this is a purely elite agenda is wrong. It is not "jamming the relationships" but giving more freedom to people in certain relationships. Maybe not the best kind of relationships - but certainly there's no way to go all the way back to walking marriages or group families without making normal relationships more inclusive.