Why are astronomical coordinates so horrendously complex?

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

Post Reply
User avatar
NoXion
Padawan Learner
Posts: 306
Joined: 2005-04-21 01:38am
Location: Perfidious Albion

Why are astronomical coordinates so horrendously complex?

Post by NoXion »

OK, so I'm mucking about in Celestia trying to rename a star, but apparently it's not enough to just supply the new name in a supplementary .STC file, you have to also include all the positional data of the star in question within said file. Now, this wouldn't be so difficult if Celestia and/or astronomy had a remotely sensible coordinate system, or at least had only one such system and stuck to it. Instead I get this:

Code: Select all


Distance from Sol: 28.377 ly

Right Ascension: 6h 52m 18s
Declination: -5 Degrees 10' 25"

Ecliptic Longitude: 104.78 Degrees
Ecliptic Latitude: -27.94 Degrees

Galactic Longitude: 217.64 Degrees
Galactic Latitude: -2.16 Degrees

This is the positional data, as presented within my version of Celestia, for the star HIP 32984, also known as HD 50281 and SAO 133805 because hey, it wouldn't be astronomy without multiple confusing cataloging systems! Unfortunately I cannot simply cut+paste these values into the .STC file because according to this document I need to specify the RA and Dec in "fractional degrees". I looked on Google for some kind of conversion tool in some vain attempt to make my life easier but for some weird reason Google hasn't heard of fractional degrees and kept directing me to converters involving decimal degrees instead. Are these different names for the same thing?

I guess what I am looking for is an easy way (or at least a set of formulas I can write down and use) to convert between the various different astronomical coordinate systems. Annoyingly enough, .DSC files (which define the positions and properties of nebulae within Celestia) define Right Ascension in fractional Hours rather than fractional degrees, for no obvious good reason. This makes precise alignment of stars and nebulae within Celestia an irritating game of trial and error. Thanks Obama!

Any help would be appreciated. I don't expect many people here to have experience with Celestia, but since my precise problem is with celestial coordinates rather than with anything idiosyncratic to the program itself I'm hoping that someone here might be able to help. Thanks in advance and apologies to the mods if this thread could have been better placed.
Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker - Mikhail Bakunin
Capital is reckless of the health or length of life of the laborer, unless under compulsion from society - Karl Marx
Pollution is nothing but the resources we are not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value - R. Buckminster Fuller
The important thing is not to be human but to be humane - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky


Nova Mundi, my laughable attempt at an original worldbuilding/gameplay project
User avatar
madd0ct0r
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6259
Joined: 2008-03-14 07:47am

Re: Why are astronomical coordinates so horrendously complex

Post by madd0ct0r »

"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
User avatar
Terralthra
Requiescat in Pace
Posts: 4741
Joined: 2007-10-05 09:55pm
Location: San Francisco, California, United States

Re: Why are astronomical coordinates so horrendously complex

Post by Terralthra »

60 arc-minutes to a degree. 60 arc-seconds to an arc-minute. 30.5 degrees = 30 degrees, 30 minutes.
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10402
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: Why are astronomical coordinates so horrendously complex

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Hmm, I'm bookmarking that, that could prove very useful.

On the main issue, we have several different coordinate systems for different purposes. RA/Dec tells you where things are in the night sky regardless of where you are on Earth. It's also more useful than Ecliptic or Galactic longitude/latitude for locating extra-galactic objects, since they (obviously) aren't covered by the galactic coordinate ystem since they aren't in our galaxy.

Frankly though, RA/Dec is the basic, default coordinate system used by pretty much everyone in the astronomical community. Hell, we only briefly touched on galactic lat/long in my astronomy degree, a cursory glance at wikipedia suggests it's mostly used in regards to radio astronomy. It's quite a nifty system but it's nowhere near needed yet.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
SMJB
Padawan Learner
Posts: 186
Joined: 2013-06-16 08:56pm

Re: Why are astronomical coordinates so horrendously complex

Post by SMJB »

I didn't even know that the ecliptic and galactic systems were things until this very minute. Everything I've ever seen just used right ascension/declination.
Simon_Jester wrote:"WHERE IS YOUR MISSILEGOD NOW!?"
Starglider wrote:* Simon stared coldly across the table at the student, who had just finnished explaining the link between the certainty of young earth creation and the divinely ordained supremacy of the white race. "I am updating my P values", Simon said through thinned lips, "to a direction and degree you will find... most unfavourable."
Post Reply