will baghdad be like stalingrad?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-21 03:07pm

or like paris?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-21 03:09pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:or like paris?

Probably a lot more parisian. The majority of the Iraqi army is conscripts and I doubt they'll be willing to fight to the death for Saddam Hussien.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-21 03:09pm

Somewhere in between, leaning towards Paris. Stalingrad had pretty much everyone fighting the Germans, whereas Paris had only a few stalwart defenders. I expect a lot of Republican Guard opposition, but I doubt Joe Iraqi is going to be harassing the Coalition forces much.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-21 03:10pm

France taught them everything they know about warfare...

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-03-21 03:14pm

Very Paris, with some opposition from the Republican Guard units, who have the choice of fighting and dieing aginst the Americans, or be executed later as criminals by the liberated Iraqi populace.

Sucks to be them

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-03-21 03:15pm

Kind of a mix.
I expect some fighting and dead at the beginning, but a surrender shortly afterwards.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-03-21 03:57pm

The key difference between Baghdad and Stalingrad is this: The troops guarding the "City of Peace" will be composed of demoralized ad hoc units put together from retreating army soldiers, and some Ba'athist partisan militia, who might be tougher morale (doubtful, when they showed for solidarity just before the deadline, they started to disintegrate within hours) but are minimally trained and armed.

The people supposedly guarding Baghdad may be more dangerous to Saddam than us. They know they can't win, so they might try to buy some mercy by grabbing the rulers and then surrendering.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-21 04:28pm

I don't even think the Republican Guards will put up much resistance. Once Saddam is dead or deposed, they have no reason to protect him. It's far healthier for them to simply surrender and get a good position in the new government, since the old one is guaranteed to be toast.

Hell, the CIA has even been calling Iraqi generals on their cell phones and E-mailing them with surrender offers. I wonder if they use smilies in their E-mails.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-21 07:59pm

Well apparently an Iraqi commander has surrendered along with 8000 of is troops maybe more will do the same.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-03-21 08:00pm

The Iraqi military might go down with a whimper, not a bang

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-03-21 08:11pm

No, I don't think the troops will be numerous enough or motivated enough to make Baghdad like Stalingrad.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-03-22 02:12pm

Montcalm wrote:Well apparently an Iraqi commander has surrendered along with 8000 of is troops maybe more will do the same.

This is a big deal, even though it isn't that many troops. What it shows is that an entire division, soldiers and officers, is unwilling to fight for Saddam. It's rather rare for this sort of thing to happen, except in special cases (mass encirclement, national collapse), and with this happening without the division in question being significantly engaged, we can see that defeatism is VERY strong in the Iraqi army.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-22 02:15pm

It sounds like several other divisions may be surrendering completely.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-03-22 02:26pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:It sounds like several other divisions may be surrendering completely.

Shit. This is going to be even easier than I thought it might!

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-22 02:33pm

It will be over when they`ll get everyone in the republican guards.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-22 02:37pm

Maybe. But until a bridge is across the Euphrates I wouldn't be too optimistic. Supposedly a Republican Guard unit is on the far bank of one of the crossing sites. Around Basra a brigade of the Iraqi 6th Armored Division has given in, and the rest may be following. I can't recall the name of the other unit.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2003-03-22 02:38pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:The key difference between Baghdad and Stalingrad is this: The troops guarding the "City of Peace" will be composed of demoralized ad hoc units put together from retreating army soldiers, and some Ba'athist partisan militia, who might be tougher morale (doubtful, when they showed for solidarity just before the deadline, they started to disintegrate within hours) but are minimally trained and armed.

.......How is that different from Stalingrad again?

Remeber, the Russian army was at the end of it's tether, fighting for a person they didn't psarticularly like, when Stalingrad occured.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-03-22 10:42pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:or like paris?

Paris.

Maybe. But until a bridge is across the Euphrates I wouldn't be too optimistic.

Didn't they use a pair of bridges to cross the Euphrates already?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-22 10:46pm

Lonestar wrote:.......How is that different from Stalingrad again?

Remeber, the Russian army was at the end of it's tether, fighting for a person they didn't psarticularly like, when Stalingrad occured.

But the Russians were willing to fight their attackers. I'd wager most of those Iraqis are being made to fight and would just as happly surrender. They aren't going to lose their country unlike the Russians so there just isn't the motivation to fight a messy urban war to the death.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-22 10:47pm

We're over the Euphrates.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-22 10:50pm

fuck, even if they blew the bridges we could bring in some of those floating bridges that can handle tanks, or the ACEs would build a few bridges in short order.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-22 11:05pm

What was that quote about the Republican Guard?

"Ten foot tall desert warriors! Shoot fire from their eyes! Bullets bounce off their chests!

Oh, wait, no they don't..."

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-22 11:25pm

Republican Guard will fight a little harder. They're still totally outclassed, outgunned, and outnumbered.

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will baghdad be like stalingrad?

will baghdad be like stalingrad?

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