Should I try out Star Trek Online?

[mr friendly guy]

Some weapons have radiant in their name and did some weird type of damage on top of their usual kind, so I assume those counted as "exotic" damage.

Radiant AP weapons are just normal anti-proton weapons, the "radiant" mod translates to "+10% critical severity and a chance on hit health buff", it reads "radiation damage" or "exotic damage" then it's exotic.

Anti-proton is kind of the default "exotic" when it comes to energy types but isn't the same as "exotic damage".

EDIT:I actually run an AP build on my science officer char, so I had check the radiant stuff.

Oops. Actually looked at the torps I have been collecting. I meant resonant torps, and I got confused with radiant torps.

[mr friendly guy]

What are the strengths of projectiles? I mean regular torps vs cluster torps vs mines.

I assume cluster torps are more numerous, but slower and vulnerable to Fire at Will. But is it possible to simply overwhelm fire at will? Say if you stuck 2 to 3 cluster torp launchers in your fore weapons. I have my eye on using the Breen transphasic torps (which was a reward for completing one of the Breen quests). I pretty much played it twice (the second time was much easier with my mark 14 gear and using my science powers more) so I have 2 of those. Since this weekend is cheap upgrade weekend, I upgraded both of them from Mk 12 to Mk14. Each one releases 10 transphasic torps, but less damage obviously than a standard one, but with 40% chance of shield penetration. Nasty weapon and that was what did me in during one of the Foundry shootout quests. Granted my hull was weaken from fighting 2 waves of 5 Tier 6 ships and he hit from behind so I didn't have a chance to activate evasive manouvres, but still impressive especially if several get through. Even more so since I upgraded it to Mk 14.

[Simon_Jester]

@Simon

Yes, you're most probably right. If dilithium costs were a problem. Although I was not sure how to get hold of superior upgrade items so I stuck with the basic as the Sol spacedock wasn't selling anything else.

You buy them on the Exchange, from people who make them themselves or get them as mission rewards.

If you're willing to spend piles of Zen to procure piles of dilithium, great- BUT you should at least get maximum return on investment. Basically, the facts are as follows:

-The Zen/dilithium exchange rate is about 230 to 240. Let's say 235 dilithium per Zen.
-The dilithium/EC exchange rate is iffier. You can easily convert EC into dilithium by buying contraband, and if we use contraband as the basis the exchange rate is about 100 EC per dilithium. Converting dilithium into EC directly is a bit more complicated, there are various ways to go about it... but for our purposes it doesn't matter. Especially not if there's a way to convert X Zen into 23500*X or more energy credits. Which there is, so you can go dilithium -> Zen -> EC.

Now, the question is, how much do the Superior upgrades cost on the Exchange?

As an example, suppose that for 80000 EC (equivalent to 800 dilithium) you buy a Superior upgrade that gives you the equivalent of 2.5 or so basic upgrades (which would cost 25000 EC, equivalent to 250 dilithium)

BUT, at the same time... the superior kit costs 1075 dilithium to activate, for a total cost of 1875 dilithium-equivalent. The 2.5 basic kits would, between them, cost 1750 dilithium to activate... totalling 2000 dilithium. So you come out ahead.

To nail it down precisely, if the cost of a Superior upgrade costs... no more than 96700 EC, in the long run, it is more cost-effective to spend your EC on Superior upgrades, and buy contraband to recoup your dilithium investment. Otherwise it is more cost-effective to buy Basic upgrade en masse.

The calculations change, of course, if you have a high R&D score in a the school in question and can make your own upgrade kits from what you just happen to have lying around anyway. However, you can generally sell the stuff it takes to make an upgrade kit on the Exchange for more than the price of the kit, for reasons I cannot quite figure out.

Since I started putting resources into our fleet, its gone from tier 6 to 9 in a few days. Still a long way to go before they get the abilities I want, such as adding more duty officers, adding extra traits and some elite gear. The good news is, there are people who have (maybe not as quick) spent more on the Fleet, so if we can recruit a few more spenders (particularly with regards to common duty officers) we can start building the good stuff.

Common duty officers have gotten really expensive lately, to the point where if you get that "recruit more colonists" duty officer mission it's more cost-effective to sell the colonists on the Exchange than to actively colonize anything.

[Lord Revan]

while it might be technically possible to overwhelm Fire at will it's viable to tbh, for example the Samsaar which I used to run (and probably switch back once I got the Nandi leveled up) uses a 4/4 config (aka 4 front and 4 aft weapon) if you use beams in every slot you got anywhere from 4 to 8 slots firing 4 beams each and it only takes 1 hit to kill a mine what the cluster torp warheads essentially are.

as a rule of thumb you shouldn't have more then 1 torp laucher per facing

[Simon_Jester]

On further analysis, at least for now, it turns out to be more cost-effective to spend your EC on Basic upgrades and enough contraband to make you back the dilithium you burn on the Basic upgrades.

This may not apply if dilithium is a limiting factor on your gameplay and you're actually spending all of it on other things every day.

[Simon_Jester]

Apologies and retraction:

It turns out Improved kits provide the best return on investment at the moment (note that this has nothing to do with the double upgrade points weekend bonus). Basically, I got the number of Tech Points associated with a Basic kit wrong.

The Improved kits provide 2.5 times as many Tech Points as the Basic ones. And you can buy an Improved Beam Weapon upgrade kit (just an example) for only a little more than 2.5 times as many energy credits as a Basic, and apply it to your equipment for vastly less than 2.5 times as much dilithium as a basic. So you save.

Superior kits would have the same advantage except that they're waaay more expensive on the Exchange.

Basically... ok. Did the algebra. Take the cost of the Superior kit. Subtract 135000 EC (to compensate for the dilithium cost). If the cost of the Superior kit is STILL three times the price of an Improved kit, and it sometimes if not always is...

Buy the Improved kits.

[Coaan]

Uh, Simon?

Dilithium is FAR harder to come by at end game with the daily cap if you are not prepared to buy it.

Your idea is backwards. This will save you EC, that's true but it will cost you up to three times the dilithium for every three kits. A superior kit costs 1k dilithium to apply. To match the tech points offered, you need three improved kits (15k techpoints total), which is 2700 dilithium.

For the same dilithium cost, you can get two superior kits (27k techpoints) for 300 more dilithium spent

It is a matter of priorities. One of these currencies is gated behind a limited daily supply, and one can be obtained by a drunk monkey with rudimentary knowledge of 'buy low, sell slightly higher'

EC is not a currency that is needed for literally everything at end game. Dilithium is, so do not waste it on anything other than superior upgrades.

[Coaan]

Stupid edit timeout

For the same dilithium cost, you can get two superior kits (27k techpoints) for 300 more dilithium spent

this is gibberish.

What I meant to say was it'll cost less dilithium to apply two superior kits than three improved, for more tech points. The only thing you spend more of is EC, which is easy to acquire.

[Simon_Jester]

Uh, Simon?

Dilithium is FAR harder to come by at end game with the daily cap if you are not prepared to buy it.

Your idea is backwards. This will save you EC, that's true but it will cost you up to three times the dilithium for every three kits. A superior kit costs 1k dilithium to apply. To match the tech points offered, you need three improved kits (15k techpoints total), which is 2700 dilithium.

For the same dilithium cost, you can get two superior kits (27k techpoints) for 300 more dilithium spent

It is a matter of priorities. One of these currencies is gated behind a limited daily supply, and one can be obtained by a drunk monkey with rudimentary knowledge of 'buy low, sell slightly higher'

EC is not a currency that is needed for literally everything at end game. Dilithium is, so do not waste it on anything other than superior upgrades.

Hm. Okay, to be fair, I'm not thinking about the cap, and am treating energy credits as interchangeable with dilithium.

You can in fact convert EC into dilithium by buying contraband, but that doesn't bypass the cap of 8000/day (or a little more if you can be bothered to visit a fleet dilithium mine that has the right upgrade, some do, some don't). The effective exchange rate this creates varies, but for pretty much the entire time I've been playing it's been oscillating between 90 and 110 EC per dilithium.

So I've been treating 100 EC as interchangeable with one dilithium, because on an average day of play, unless I deliberately go hunting for opportunities to max out dilithium production I don't even reach 8000 dilithium ore a day. And buying contraband gives me a very easy way to get up to that 'gate,' or closer to that 'gate,' than I would otherwise be.

So for me, saving 200000 EC really is about equivalent to saving 2000 dilithium, at least over the long haul. Because some day, the 5 Contraband I bought (or could have bought) with those energy credits will convert into 2000 dilithium that I otherwise simply would not have.

For a determined player who puts in several hours of grinding or quasi-grinding end-game play every day, and foresees doing so for the indefinite future (I won't be able to, not after mid-August)... the rules are different.

Now, that said, my analysis isn't wrong as such except for the part where I treat 100 EC as being 'as good as' 1 dilithium. If that simply isn't true for you, and there are a number of reasons it might not be... then my analysis does not apply. It should have occurred to me to spell that out, because I am not a representative sample of the population.

For me, at current prices, I'm better off using more Improved kits. You're not, if you reliably hit the 8000 dilithium 'gate' on ore refining every day and expect to do so for the next several months.

[Coaan]

Once you pass 50, hitting cap with dilithium is ludicrously easy and there is no real way of increasing it past having spent a huge amount of time/money subbing.

Given the existance of the cap and just how *much* end game content relies on having dilithium to spend, I'm always going to treat dilithium as being far more valuable than it's market price in contraband

Depending on what kits you are wanting, I could probably start providing superior kits at material cost. It only costs me materials + 15k ec to build most of them (except cannon/projectile - don't have the skill for that)

If you can get me the materials I need, I'll make 'em at cost for you for a bit. It's not really hard to get your crafting up, it just takes time.

[Simon_Jester]

That's gracious of you, but I really am in a different position than you are due to the fact that there are going to be, starting in a few weeks, days where I can't play much or at all. Even knowing how stupidly easy it is to rack up a pile of dilithium with a few well-chosen 'grind' missions and turning in the marks from same and so on... it takes up time. Time I'm not spending playing story content or the missions I specifically enjoy the most.

Having contraband to turn in on days like that saves enough gameplay time that it actually does translate directly into more dilithium for me, so I am doing just fine.

You have excellent reasons to do things the way you do, and I very much thank you for an offer that would be extremely kind and helpful if I were in the same position you were.

I will also look into the cost of making my own kits- I can roll my own Superior Beam kits if nothing else- but the last time I checked, it honestly was cheaper for me to use Improveds, because for me it's actually economical to buy Contraband at 40000 EC per and redeem them at 400 dilithium per. If not today, then some time next month...

[Coaan]

Whatever floats your boat, but I think you'll regret it eventually given they are just not efficient in the long run.

As to my offer - this goes to anyone in this thread

If you wish superior upgrade kits for any r&d school and cannot yet create your own, just let me know what kits you are after through email in STO or PM on the forum, and we'll work out a deal. It'll be at cost, so at most it'll just cost some materials and maybe 15k EC.

It'll save about 200k per kit for most folk.

Edit - handle is @Mithaw in game

[Simon_Jester]

To be fair, spurred by your thoughts, I think I've worked out a... call it a 'gimmick' that gives me the best of both worlds.

However, it is still a part of my own economic reality that if I want to max out my dilithium income per year, expending 1000 dilithium now to save, say, 200000 energy credits, which I then redeem for roughly 2000 dilithium later, is actually a valid strategy.

[The Romulan Republic]

Getting back into this game after a fairly long absence, which means I'm in for a hideously long period of patching.

Since its been a while, I'm going to ask some questions that might have obvious answers/have been answered before- is their any way to get a tier six ship without paying actual money, and if so, what is the most expedient means to do so?

[RogueIce]

Since its been a while, I'm going to ask some questions that might have obvious answers/have been answered before- is their any way to get a tier six ship without paying actual money, and if so, what is the most expedient means to do so?

If you get enough EC for yourself, you can buy Master Keys and roll the dice on lockboxes. Alternatively just save up the EC and buy the ships directly off the Exchange.

There are also the Event Ships, which are T6 these days. So 14 days of grinding on one account, but then you get a discount for all of your other characters. Unfortunately you just missed the Summer Event, so you'll probably need to wait for the Winter Event. Then there's the Anniversary Event which comes about a month or so after the WE ends.

Also, there are Fleet T6 ships now so grinding your way to enough Fleet Credits and then dilithium->Zen or the EC to buy Fleet Modules is another route to take. And if you go the dilithium->Zen method you can get them off the C-Store directly.

Which is most expedient? Depends on your playstyle I guess. If you're willing to wait, the Event ships are probably the 'easiest' with making a couple hundred million EC or so to buy lockbox/Lobi ships off the Exchange coming in second.

[The Romulan Republic]

Thanks. I'll probably wait until the winter event. My Sovereign still serves me fairly well.

Another question: Any recommendations for good foundry missions? I've only played a couple thus far and I'd like to try some more of them, but user-made material is often variable in terms of quality.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hmm. Tholians seemed a lot easier to fight than I recalled. Did they make them weaker or am I that much better at dealing with them, or what?

Anyway, its nice to take a break from the Vaadwaur war. I think I'll go hang out at Risa for a bit. Maybe drop by Vulcan or Starfleet Academy too.

[Simon_Jester]

Was it part of a Red Alert?

Proliferation of Tier 6 ships and increasingly high-damage builds has made the Tholian and Borg Red Alerts... very very easy.

[Coaan]

There are also the Event Ships, which are T6 these days. So 14 days of grinding on one account, but then you get a discount for all of your other characters. Unfortunately you just missed the Summer Event, so you'll probably need to wait for the Winter Event. Then there's the Anniversary Event which comes about a month or so after the WE ends.

Quick point, this not entirely correct. As of the summer event you only have to unlock event stuff on one character and then it's account wide. You don't get a discount, you get the thing for your account and just need to have the event store unlocked to access it.

As for which is easiest to acquire? I'd say that fleet ships are, so long as you are in a fully upgraded fleet. The fleet modules can be purchased from the exchange for grindy credits and are FAR cheaper than lockbox T6 ships on the exchange, and they're generally very solid ships that are upgraded because they are fleet vessels. The only downside to purchasing fleet ships is the lack of trait that t6 ships come with.

Event ships are certainly easy to get, the events themselves are just fairly rare and can't be relied on for a source of ships.

[Elheru Aran]

Especially since not everybody has the time to take two or three weeks to sit down and grind for 15-30 minutes every day. This is particularly worse in winter as a lot of people are out and about during the holidays.

[RogueIce]

Well, I did preface my comments with "this may depend on the player" essentially. The Events typically run for a month or so, and you only need to log in for 14 days. That's not terribly difficult for many but it may be for you. Everyone's different.

Fleet ships can be fairly easy...or not. It really depends on which Fleet you end up joining, what their holding levels are, what their policies for promotions and permissions to buy ships are, etc. Again, it could be fairly painless or it may be pain, and your chosen Fleet may not even have access to the ship you want.

Like me and my seemingly forever out of reach Fleet Sovereign-class cruiser...

(Although admittedly I'm having fun with the T6 Avenger and may run around with the Command BC as well, but I still want my Fleet Sovvie dammit!)

[mr friendly guy]

Thanks. I'll probably wait until the winter event. My Sovereign still serves me fairly well.

Another question: Any recommendations for good foundry missions? I've only played a couple thus far and I'd like to try some more of them, but user-made material is often variable in terms of quality.

The Purity series. Six episodes in all. It feels like you're playing a Star Trek episode.

There are also pure grinding quests, which are just blowing things up with some dilithium as prizes - eg King of kills and Dominion grinder.

[Simon_Jester]

[snip accidental copypasta from another thread, please delete this post]

[mr friendly guy]

STO has great potential for replay value. Trying out a different bridge crew is nice. I just love how my Andorian female in Vaadwaar / Federation hybrid clothes fly kicks a Klingon, while my Hierarchy officer with his cute potato head guns them down. Too bad my fleet is barely having enough exp to create a Tier II shipyard. I need at least a tier III before I can get that Dauntless and play a science vessel. On the plus side we seem to get lots of members. Hopefully this brings in new resources to speed things up.

[mr friendly guy]

How the hell are you supposed to fight an Iconian Herald, at least that one on the Iconian ship in the current featured episode? It basically resets its health after you die. To make matters worse, it seems to deliberately target you, and that makes no tactical sense (ie 4 of the away team are behind it, and I am in front). The combine weapons of my four members are way more than mine, and he takes flank damage.

Before someone says, then let your away team shoot him in the back while you act as a tank... that's all very well, but the AI forces them to follow me once I get a certain distance away. The Herald's attacks always have a big range so I get far away. The final time I tried setting rally points for my team, and then the Herald disappears. It says I haven't defeated it, but I go to do the next part of the quest. Just frustrating.

Its less bad in PvE, because he splits the targeting among all players.