Okay, I Get It Now

[Chris Parr]

In a straight up match the Federation would lose big time to the Empire. Really don't even need a fancy shmancy college degree to figure it out. Just look at the time lines. The Federation has had warp drive for, oh, three hundred years, while the Galaxy Far Far Away has had hyperdrives for over twenty five thousand years! I mean, the Federation going against the Empire would be like a bunch of primitives in dug out canoes going up against a fleet of Nimitz Class Aircraft Carriers!

So, unless the Federation is unbelievably lucky, they haven't got a hope of prevailing.

Of course, luck seems to be the Federation's stock in trade when it comes to overwhelming odds, so who knows?

[Lord Revan]

The problem with "luck" is that it's totally unpredictble and unrelible by its very nature.

The very defination of luck is a random event that changes things a certain way.

for purposes of a debate "luck" is non-factor as it cannot be relied to do anything either way.

For a crossover story luck can work but you have to do it just right or it will seem a writer's fiat and will make a boring story.

[Chris Parr]

Wasn't there some piece of technobabble that altered probability fields or something on an episode of DS9?

Oh wait, that didn't work quite right had had to be destroyed. Never mind.

[Simon_Jester]

Also, those were localized devices, not a civilization-wide luck enhancement (whatever that would mean).

[biostem]

When talking about entire faction vs faction battles, it is best to basically remove the "character shields" and special/hero units from each side. If you remove the Enterprise and/or the main cast, and remove any direct interference from the Emperor or Darth Vader, (heck, I'll even take out the super star destroyer), who would win?

You have to get rid of luck as part of how you consider such a match-up, and boil everything down to the barest essentials...

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't think you can really remove the heroes from a battle between whole factions, especially when the heroes are major players in those factions (for example, the Empire wouldn't even exist without Palpatine).

Maybe it simplifies things, but its not taking the full picture into account.

[Venator]

So, unless the Federation is unbelievably lucky, they haven't got a hope of prevailing.

Of course, luck seems to be the Federation's stock in trade when it comes to overwhelming odds, so who knows?

You have to get rid of luck as part of how you consider such a match-up, and boil everything down to the barest essentials...

The best example available is the Dominion War - when working on a scale larger than a single hero-shielded ship (or station), where things like troop capabilities and logistics become visible, and the Federation took a battering.

And the Empire has not just several times, or a dozen times, but literally millions of times the industrial and military capacity the Dominion had.

A great illustration of this is the second Death Star. They built it in six months. During the Dominion War, the Dominion built up a sizable fleet of large battleships and dreadnoughts to take on allied forces of the Alpha Quadrant. Given a similar length of time, the Empire built a moon-sized ship capable of instantly destroying worlds and probably outgunning every other ship in the galaxy simultaneously.

[Chris Parr]

Well, the Emperor may defeat himself, what with that temper and all. All that anger isn't good for a fellow, you know, he's liable to give himself a stroke if he doesn't watch it.

[The Romulan Republic]

So, unless the Federation is unbelievably lucky, they haven't got a hope of prevailing.

Of course, luck seems to be the Federation's stock in trade when it comes to overwhelming odds, so who knows?

You have to get rid of luck as part of how you consider such a match-up, and boil everything down to the barest essentials...

The best example available is the Dominion War - when working on a scale larger than a single hero-shielded ship (or station), where things like troop capabilities and logistics become visible, and the Federation took a battering.

And the Empire has not just several times, or a dozen times, but literally millions of times the industrial and military capacity the Dominion had.

A great illustration of this is the second Death Star. They built it in six months. During the Dominion War, the Dominion built up a sizable fleet of large battleships and dreadnoughts to take on allied forces of the Alpha Quadrant. Given a similar length of time, the Empire built a moon-sized ship capable of instantly destroying worlds and probably outgunning every other ship in the galaxy simultaneously.

To be fair, is the six months thing still canon what with the changes to canon of late?

[Chris Parr]

How do we know it was six months? I mean, the Empire might have started working on a new Death Star right after the old one was blown up, and according to what I just read on Wookiepedia, that's a four year gap between the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Endor, not six months.

Don't get me wrong, though, four years to build the second Death Star is still pretty impressive.

[Lord Revan]

Well, the Emperor may defeat himself, what with that temper and all. All that anger isn't good for a fellow, you know, he's liable to give himself a stroke if he doesn't watch it.

he might but that's still not something you want to rely on, after all Darth Vader survived burns that for all rights should have killed him before any help arrived not mention loosing 3 of his 4 limbs in the process.