Glad I waited for the reviews on Aftermath

[RogueIce]

but what about Old Republic or Clone Wars stuff

The TV show is definitely in, but all the OR and other material is out.

Anyway I've come to believe for some time now they should've just done what Star Trek did: movies and TV only, everything else is explicitly "extra" and has no bearing on the filmed works.

I mean, technically that was sort of what the old system was like: C-Canon was below G- and T-Canon. Which of course didn't stop the EU fanboys pitching a fit over TCW retconning things, even though by the system-as-designed it was explicitly allowed to.

But then, Lucasfilm did pretty much hold the GTC tiers as being 'legitimate' canon (IIRC S did not generally make the cut, and N was explicitly non-canon) so there was that. Still, it would be so much better in the long run if they just adopted the Trek policy. Much less butthurt when a film or TV director - rightfully - gives no fucks about some comic most of the audience never read (in theory lol, TCW did show otherwise), and hopefully fewer convoluted continuity messes because TV shows and movies won't be quite as numerous as all the books, comics and games the licensing machine routinely shovels out.

[Adam Reynolds]

I mean, technically that was sort of what the old system was like: C-Canon was below G- and T-Canon. Which of course didn't stop the EU fanboys pitching a fit over TCW retconning things, even though by the system-as-designed it was explicitly allowed to.

The problem with the old-EU, unlike Star Trek novels, was that it was a house of cards. If one thing fell the entire framework would have fallen apart. Thus when Clone Wars makes Labyrinth of Evil impossible, when we see references in to those events in Darth Plagueis it also makes that novel impossible.

I would say that the majority of fans who criticized Clone Wars, like me, weren't just bothered that it contradicted the EU. We were bothered that many of the story ideas of Clone Wars were terrible and cheapened the films. While it is not to say that the EU didn't also do it, the examples from Clone Wars seemed worse to me(at least for the PT era).

We have Darth Maul brought back to life(always a terrible story concept). We have the feared droid general of the CIS doing worse in lightsaber combat than a bounty hunter and a pirate king. We have a conspiracy involving control chips for clones and the Jedi doing nothing. Considering that this immediately follows the the Jedi investigating Sifo-Dyas, learning that Dooku killed him and was Tyranus and thus hired Jango Fett. We have the leader of the CIS behind the clone army that is fighting them on top of control chips that can cause clones to attack Jedi and no one in the Jedi Council was concerned?

I'm not sure which version is better. The former mess was caused by a card game deciding that Ice cream machine guy was somehow important. On top of the mess of dozens of different authors with different ideas. The current mess was caused by a TV series that was never properly planned at all and was told out of order with no real sense of internal dating. At least in the old EU we could find the dates of when events came out easily enough.

[Joun_Lord]

but what about Old Republic or Clone Wars stuff

The TV show is definitely in, but all the OR and other material is out.

That does kinda suck because some of the Clone Wars comics and books were pretty good and alot of the Old Republic stuff was good. It must really suck for people playing TOR considering its now non-canon. But one of the reasons EU fanboys are probably pissed is because they feel they are being pissed on by Disney. Other then some minor things like that Rakghoul amulet that extends all the way to the Legacy comics, much of the new movies and probably canon will be touching or effecting anything done in those eras. The powers that be seem to have no interest in those time periods, I doubt we are going to see some Clone Wars era side movie or anything.

Pruning all the EU leaves alot of fans fed-up. A sentiment that will grow stronger when 10 or so years from now authors start sticking their dicks in those eras again with stories that are inevitably going to be just terrible.

Anyway I've come to believe for some time now they should've just done what Star Trek did: movies and TV only, everything else is explicitly "extra" and has no bearing on the filmed works.

I agree with that, the reason I'm not so torn up about the EU dying, but me from 10 years ago and Lucasfilms of the past would disagree. The problem with doing the Star Trek model is there is really no model, no structure, no reason for fans to get invested in what is more or less fan fiction in book form that has no bearing on the larger world or even on other books. Trek books probably don't make Paramount alot of money. LFL wanted fans to spend money, fans wanted more Star Wars, it seemed logical to try to make a cohesive universe that would draw in fans and have a strong connection to the films. Books and comics and games that didn't just do their own things as the Trek books do but part of a larger universe, a universe with structure.

Now it didn't always work, hence the need for over-riding levels of canon, but worked well enough to create a large and no doubt profitable universe beyond the films but still part of the films that a great many fans enjoyed for decades.

But whatever. I'm just personally glad that those things The Clone Wars tv show retconned are completely gone from Star Wars canon. Its sucks that stuff like the Thrawn books and Legacy comics are gone (but they were going to be gone either way) but its well worth it that shit, a fetid slurry of pure wet shit, like anything with Karen Traviss's name on it, Kyp Duron, the Crystal Star, and most of the rest of the New Republic era EU is flushed down the drain.

[Abacus]

I was hoping for a non-minimalist break up of the Empire akin to what happened after Alexander the Great died and you had the Successor States rise...you know, kind of like the EU Warlords era, before the Imperial Remnant rebuilt itself in the Outer Rim beneath Paelleon.

[Abacus]

Also, it just makes me want to write a more competent story about the aftermath of Endor -- something non-minimalist and far more believable.

[Adam Reynolds]

I was hoping for a non-minimalist break up of the Empire akin to what happened after Alexander the Great died and you had the Successor States rise...you know, kind of like the EU Warlords era, before the Imperial Remnant rebuilt itself in the Outer Rim beneath Paelleon.

One problem with that idea is that Palpatine was effectively assassinated by the Rebel Alliance. Alexander the Great was not clearly assassinated by an enemy group. Thus it would be odd for the Empire to fragment in the same fashion.

In any event, clearly the Empire lacked a stable rule. The feeling I had in the OT was that the rule of the Empire was teetering. In ANH, with the immanent arrival of the Death Star, the Emperor was in a position in which he felt he could get away with disbanding the Imperial Senate, leaving control to regional governors. When the Rebel Alliance successfully destroyed the Death Star, they ended any chance of the Empire keeping systems in line through fear. It completely backfired. Worlds were eventually able to oppose the Empire in numbers sufficient to muster the fleet that was able defeat the Empire and kill the Emperor at Endor by the time of Return of the Jedi.

Going into The Empire Strikes Back, there seems to be a major military push by the Empire to make an example of the Rebel Alliance. To me, this indicates that they are almost desperate for a victory that will prove to the galaxy that the Empire is in control. This is followed by an extremely high risk plan by the Emperor to use the second Death Star and himself as bait to lure the entire Rebel Alliance into a trap and destroy them.

From what we see in the films, while the trappings of the Empire appear powerful, there are signs that the rule of the Empire is not nearly as absolute as it seems. My theory as to why is twofold. The first is that the Imperial military is actually quite small in absolute terms. The galaxy is very widespread and concentration of resources is a major one. In Clone Wars we see fleets of three Venator class vessels as the standard. While the Imperial fleet undoubtedly contains thousands of Star Destroyers, it has a problem concentrating the level of firepower necessary to penetrate planetary shielding. This leads to a second problem. If the Death Star is the only way to properly crack planetary shielding without a long and extended siege(as mentioned in ROTS), then it would make sense that without one the Empire would have problems. Worlds could openly rebel and get away with it. Mon Calamari appears to have done this.

What would be reasonable as an aftermath would be for the Imperial Senate to reconvene and for them to establish a New Republic. This loosely appears to have happened under the new continuity. Though there are obvious Imperial holdouts as we see from the trailers.

[Balrog]

I was hoping for a non-minimalist break up of the Empire akin to what happened after Alexander the Great died and you had the Successor States rise...you know, kind of like the EU Warlords era, before the Imperial Remnant rebuilt itself in the Outer Rim beneath Paelleon.

To be fair, there isn't anything as outright 'minimalist' as previous brainbugs like "3 million Clones," the book takes place mere months after the DSII, and among the high-ranking Imperials who gathered for the meeting about how to save the Empire there was the distinct impression that A) this was a secret meeting among a select few trusted individuals and B) the cracks had become visible and it was a matter of time before the Empire went all Successor States (though with walkers instead of 'Mechs...)

[Havok]

Did we really need to understand the life story of Porkins, the only Fat X-Wing Pilot?

Of course we did! We need hope.

[Havok]

My thought on this has always been, why wouldn't the Empire just revert to the Republic? It was only 6-7 years from the time the Emperor shut down the Senate and only 30+ years since the Emperor started the first Galactic Empire.

Aside from those Senators that died in the rebellion, it's not like planets and systems wouldn't remember how to govern as a group.Hell, most member systems and planets would probably have had Republic laws embedded into their own. Yes, the final group of Senators would have been fairly corrupt or just plain ineffective, but this would have been a prime opportunity to right the Republic. This was a system of government that had been around for a thousand years and after 37 years it's just completely forgotten? Doesn't jive.

[Abacus]

My thought on this has always been, why wouldn't the Empire just revert to the Republic? It was only 6-7 years from the time the Emperor shut down the Senate and only 30+ years since the Emperor started the first Galactic Empire.

Aside from those Senators that died in the rebellion, it's not like planets and systems wouldn't remember how to govern as a group.Hell, most member systems and planets would probably have had Republic laws embedded into their own. Yes, the final group of Senators would have been fairly corrupt or just plain ineffective, but this would have been a prime opportunity to right the Republic. This was a system of government that had been around for a thousand years and after 37 years it's just completely forgotten? Doesn't jive.

In my general opinion, this stems from the fact that more people were under the impression -- before the prequels -- that the Empire had been around for much longer than what Lucas showed us. Especially in the pre-prequel days, when the EU was all we had to go by. The full entrenchment across the galaxy of the Empire, the warlords, etc, all seemed to foreshadow the fact that the Empire had been around for a few decades -- at least 30 years -- before the Rebellion finally took the Emperor down at Endor.

I think it's a small, largely overlooked, side-effect of the minimalist view towards Star Wars.