The story of Ahmed Mohamed and a clock

[Jub]

Could somebody explain to me where a meaningful amount of explosives could even fit into that clock?

[Kon_El]

Could somebody explain to me where a meaningful amount of explosives could even fit into that clock?

The "zero tolerance" policies at schools don't concern themselves with things like that. As long as a teacher or administrator think something looks like a weapon they have steps they are required to take. This has been out of hand for a while now.

[Simon_Jester]

Closed it looks like a pencil box. A very normal school item.

The only way anyone would have identified it as a 'maybe bomb' is if they opened it, at which point the lack of actual explosives or anything other than circuitry should have been a giveaway.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Could somebody explain to me where a meaningful amount of explosives could even fit into that clock?

There's a video that they show recruits in the academy of an officer disturbing a McDonalds lunch bag that had explosives in it. That officer was there one moment and then gone in the next. To best describe it imagine you're filming a person. You stop that film and remove that person and then continue filming. So, it'd be enough to kill someone pretty easily provided it was a bomb and not an obvious clock.

[Elheru Aran]

A small explosive that only kills a couple of people is bad enough. That pencil case is bigger than your average grenade, which is lethal enough (otherwise people wouldn't bother). 'Meaningful' doesn't necessarily mean 'blows up the entire block'.

Of course this whole situation is bullshit, but it's easy enough to see why a random box with random wiring might look suspicious to someone whose knowledge of bombs can be best derived from Hollywood bollocks... doesn't excuse how the kid was treated and the way they reacted to the situation.

[Mr Bean]

A small explosive that only kills a couple of people is bad enough. That pencil case is bigger than your average grenade, which is lethal enough (otherwise people wouldn't bother). 'Meaningful' doesn't necessarily mean 'blows up the entire block'.

Of course this whole situation is bullshit, but it's easy enough to see why a random box with random wiring might look suspicious to someone whose knowledge of bombs can be best derived from Hollywood bollocks... doesn't excuse how the kid was treated and the way they reacted to the situation.

And again does not justify it if they followed none of the "we believe it was a bomb" procedures
I'll keep damn repeating it until people pay fucking attention to it.

They called the cops and did little else on the list, let me link to the Virgina Winchester Public schools bomb threat policy because it's identical to every other school policy list I've ever seen because that all copy/paste USGOV policy recommendations. You can read it here

Of particular note is number six and number eight when it's just "a bomb threat" and not "reported bomb"

6. The building principal or designee must decide whether the building should be evacuated. If the caller provided a specific time when the device was to explode and was graphic concerning other details, the building should be immediately evacuated. The principal may establish a pre-arranged code with the faculty alerting them to have students get their coats. A further decision should be made as to whether the students should be allowed to locate their coats in case of cold or rainy weather. If it appears that the children will be required to remain outside for an extended period, arrangements should be made to identify the closest location to which the students could be evacuated. If buses are needed, a call must be made to the Coordinator of Transportation

8. The school principal is to request that police and fire department personnel inspect the building for the bomb.

Or here is Plymouth state suspicious package policy

Dealing with an Opened, Threatening Package or Envelope

If a threat is not identified or considered until after a package or envelope is open, it is most important to remain calm. By taking the following actions, you will limit the exposure of others to the potential danger and you will allow emergency personnel to treat you quicker, if necessary:

Move away from the package, but do not leave the area that you are in, unless the package contains a type of bomb or other explosive device.
Close any doors in the immediate area, and isolate yourself and anyone else that was in the immediate vicinity of the package. (This may mean a temporary quarantine type of arrangement for you and anyone else in the immediate room).
Do not allow any entry except by emergency response personnel.
Use the phone and dial 911. Follow all instructions from emergency personnel.
Turn off any window A/C units and fans.
Contact the Physical Plant and request that any air handling units not controlled locally be shut down.
Make a list of any others that may have come in contact with the package, including those that may have handled it but not opened it. Be prepared to share this information with emergency responders.

It's not call the cops bring the "bomb" to them and arrest the kid
It was a fuckking clock and treated like it was a clock while everyone said "bomb" and said bomb to the media but you know what? They acted like it was a fucking clock not a fucking bomb. They did zero bomb related things and 100% it's a clock related things except the call the clocks on the kid for possessing a dangerous device IE a clock.

[Elheru Aran]

So their story is bullshit? Yeah, I think everybody with two brain cells to rub together knows that perfectly well.

[Mr Bean]

So their story is bullshit? Yeah, I think everybody with two brain cells to rub together knows that perfectly well.

Sorry Aran, not everyone has that many brain cells to rub together.

[Dominus Atheos]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/2 ... heir-enemy

It took a few days, but conservatives and Islamophobes have made Ahmed Mohamed their enemy

For nearly 48 hours after most of the country learned about the injustice experienced by 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed, America was a beautiful place.

President Obama reached out to him.

So did Facebook.

And Twitter.

And MIT.

And Microsoft.

And NASA.

Millions of general well-wishers saw the absurdity of interrogating, handcuffing, and arresting Mohamed for bringing a homemade clock to school, which administrators and police allege looked like a "hoax bomb." The charges were dropped and it appeared that we'd all witnessed the end of the worst episode of Mohamed's life.

How naive of us.

It just took Bristol and Sarah Palin a little while longer to think their hateful words through.

First Bristol piped up:

This is the kind of stuff Obama needs to STAY out of. This encourages more racial strife that is already going on with the “Black Lives Matter” crowd and encourages victimhood.

Then mom chimed in:

Yep, believing that’s a clock in a school pencil box is like believing Barack Obama is ruling over the most transparent administration in history. Right. That’s a clock, and I’m the Queen of England.

Then, Richard Dawkins weighed in on how this was likely all a deliberate plan orchestrated by Mohamed to get arrested on purpose, for profit.

Not to be outdone, Bill Maher (who hates anything connected to Islam) predictably came out and strongly defended Mohamed's arrest.

America loves a political football—even if it comes in the form of a 14-year-old boy who doesn't deserve any of this mess coming his way.

A conservative think tank (those exist?) is now saying that what Mohamed built was half of a bomb. By half, they mean the clock portion—which basically means that all clocks, according to their logic, are halfway to being bombs.

Ultimately, let's hope that Ahmed Mohamed's family and those around him somehow find a way for him to live as normal a teenage life as possible. Let's pray he moves forward, insulated from all of the hate and rhetoric, and surrounded by loving encouragement and support. It won't be easy, but it's what he deserves.

Yes, Richard Dawkins really said that.

https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/stat ... wsrc%5Etfw

Harry Stopes
‏@HarryStopes

Really @richarddawkins what do you think Ahmed's motives were?

Richard Dawkins
‏@RichardDawkins

@HarryStopes I don't know. Possibly wanted to be arrested? Police played into his hands? Anyway, now invited to White House, crowdfunded etc

[Gaidin]

Richard Dawkins, enough of an asshole even atheists want him to go to hell.

[TheFeniX]

Yep, believing that’s a clock in a school pencil box is like believing Barack Obama is ruling over the most transparent administration in history. Right. That’s a clock, and I’m the Queen of England.

I love it. Because it actually is a clock. Was Palin there to decry Christopher Kissinger's attempt on the lives of his classmates by saying "Right. That's a chicken finger, and I'm the Queen that place where you can see Russia from."?


Still relevant. Always relevant. The only problem is we now think of the children by treating any divergence of the status quo as the PLAN FOR ULTIMATE EVIL from these kids that we think are so stupid, naive, and pathetic, we have to protect them from themselves and making stupid decisions by charging them with felonies when the opportunity presents itself.

EDIT: For a guy who is more educated and intelligent than I'll ever be, Richard Dawkins is a fucking moron.

[Flagg]

At least Hitchens admitted he was a racist fighting a culture war/crusade (though never in those terms). When Dawkins dies I think I will actually go find his grave and piss on it. If not for his smarm, then for his textbook living caricature of an ivory tower douche.

[Adam Reynolds]

At least Hitchens admitted he was a racist fighting a culture war/crusade (though never in those terms). When Dawkins dies I think I will actually go find his grave and piss on it. If not for his smarm, then for his textbook living caricature of an ivory tower douche.

The fundamental problem with both Dawkins and Hitchens is that while they often make reasonable arguments against religion in general, they are never ones that will be heard outside of groups that already agree with them. Both of them fall into two classes of individuals that are what most Christians think atheists are like anyway. We have the ivory tower intellectual and the caustic alcoholic. A far better atheist figure in America is former preacher Dan Barker, which means that his arguments will never be given the same weight in popular culture. Or Julia Sweeney's amusing audiobook, Letting Go of God, which has to be the funniest take on atheism that I have ever seen.

Her story oddly enough is similar to that of my mother. Julia's story was that she eventually went on a path towards atheism after receiving the teachings from Mormon missionaries. When she was a teenager, my sister gravitated towards several Mormons her age and decided that she wanted to convert to that church. When the missionaries came to give their teachings it eventually caused my mom to realize that she didn't believe in any religion.

[Adam Reynolds]

EDIT: For a guy who is more educated and intelligent than I'll ever be, Richard Dawkins is a fucking moron.

I think his problem is that the fame went to his head. He got so caught up in the culture wars that he lost objectivity on issues.

[salm]

You know, if Dawkins is right and Mohamed did this on puropose then Mohamed has earned every single dollar he can harvest from this. If you manage to game a misanthropic system like the US school system in such a way you deserve a medal.

[The Romulan Republic]

You know, if Dawkins is right and Mohamed did this on puropose then Mohamed has earned every single dollar he can harvest from this. If you manage to game a misanthropic system like the US school system in such a way you deserve a medal.

I don't think, based on what I've read about this case, that Mohamed intended anyone to think he had a bomb, but if, hypothetically, he did, are you really saying that you think a fucking bomb hoax is something one should be applauded and rewarded for? Bomb hoaxes are not a game.

[salm]

Yes. It would be like the satire magazine Titanic hoax bribing FIFA officials with black forrest ham and cuckoo clocks.
Using kafkaesque structures to defeat these structures is great.

[The Romulan Republic]

You do understand that perpetrating a bomb hoax is... um... terrorism? And that you are advocating it? And that such behaviour could simply encourage more fear and persecution of innocent people?

Jesus, some people are stupid assholes.

Edit: Of course, this is a moot point as far as this story is concerned. But the hypothetical is worth addressing.

Edit: Tweaked for full accuracy.

[Thanas]

^You're for real?

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, yeah. What of it? I object to someone saying that a kid pulling off a bomb hoax, hypothetically, would be an awesome thing that he should be rewarded for. I'm sorry if that offends you, or if I somehow misinterpreted what salm was saying (though I don't see how I could have), but I sincerely hope I'm not in the minority in having that opinion.

[salm]

You do understand that perpetrating a bomb hoax is... um... terrorism? And that you are advocating it? And that such behaviour could simply encourage more fear and persecution of innocent people?

Jesus, some people are stupid assholes.

Edit: Of course, this is a moot point as far as this story is concerned. But the hypothetical is worth addressing.

Edit: Tweaked for full accuracy.

The whole prerequisite for such an action being justified is that the system in place is absurd. Like this case shows the system in place IS absurd. Therefore it is absolutely fine to abuse the system. Just because the system calls it terrorism doesn´t mean that it actually is terrorism. In fact, in this particular case the system itself is the terrorist while our hypothetical clock inventor is the counter terrorist who unveils the horrible structures in place by using the system against itself.

[The Romulan Republic]

I agree, obviously that what the boy in this story did wasn't terrorism. He clearly had no intent to threaten anyone. If, however, he had done what he did with the intent to cause fear, to make people believe he had a bomb (as in this hypothetical)- well, frankly, I have no problem with calling it terrorism when someone threatens others with violence for the sake of advancing a political agenda. Even if the person didn't make an explicit threat, if it was their intent to cause fear of violence, then morally at least, I'd say it amounts to pretty much the same thing (I don't know if it does legally or not).

I don't make excuses for thinly veiled terrorism when its Right wing Tea Party shit bags doing it and I won't excuse it when anyone else does it, or when its advocates are people on the Left. I'd rather America not be a place where making bomb hoaxes is considered an acceptable way to advance a political agenda, no matter how otherwise benevolent that agenda may be. Especially when every incident is a potential excuse for further despotic crackdowns in the name of security.

[salm]

I agree, obviously that what the boy in this story did wasn't terrorism. He clearly had no intent to threaten anyone. If, however, he had done what he did with the intent to cause fear, to make people believe he had a bomb (as in this hypothetical)- well, frankly, I have no problem with calling it terrorism when someone threatens others with violence for the sake of advancing a political agenda. Even if the person didn't make an explicit threat, if it was their intent to cause fear of violence, then morally at least, I'd say it amounts to pretty much the same thing (I don't know if it does legally or not).

I don't make excuses for thinly veiled terrorism when its Right wing Tea Party shit bags doing it and I won't excuse it when anyone else does it, or when its advocates are people on the Left. I'd rather America not be a place where making bomb hoaxes is considered an acceptable way to advance a political agenda, no matter how otherwise benevolent that agenda may be. Especially when every incident is a potential excuse for further despotic crackdowns in the name of security.

I don´t see any fear in this hypothetical. It´s an act of civil disobediene in which the kid uses the silly governmental mechanisms in place to make the system act AS IF there was a threat when in reality everybody with more brain cells than a hen can see that there is no threat. Nobody was scared or else they´d have evacuated the school. They just went through with completely idiotic rules and in the end these rules were exposed as what they are. Fucking stupid. And the kid got a well deserved reward for exposing bad rules.
If the kid in the hypothetical intends to cause fear among people instead of intending to cause an unwarranted, silly reaction from an institutional mechanism, well, then that´s a completely different hypothetical.

Or to put it another way: Making a bomb hoax in a place where bomb hoax actually means bomb hoax that would be bad. Making a bomb hoax in a place where painting a pink bunny blue is considered a bomb hoax making a bomb hoax is absolutely fine as long as it is of the bunny painting type.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, obviously, if their was no intimidation/fear or harm to anyone, and no intent to cause either, I wouldn't call it terrorism. On that much, at least, we can agree. But any bomb hoax has the potential to cause panic, especially since not everyone has, to put it in your terms, "...more brain cells than a hen...", especially when it comes to terrorism and security. Its like the old example of shouting fire in a crowded theatre, only more so. Sure, its possible nothing really bad will happen, but its not something to play around with.

Hell, just in terms of self-interest, its a bad idea. The boy in this story is fortunate that things didn't turn out worse for him. He wouldn't be the first innocent person in the news to be beaten or shot by cops if things had gone just a little worse.

[salm]

Well, obviously, if their was no intimidation/fear or harm to anyone, and no intent to cause either, I wouldn't call it terrorism. On that much, at least, we can agree. But any bomb hoax has the potential to cause panic, especially since not everyone has, to put it in your terms, "...more brain cells than a hen...", especially when it comes to terrorism and security. Its like the old example of shouting fire in a crowded theatre, only more so. Sure, its possible nothing really bad will happen, but its not something to play around with.

No, it´s exactly NOT like shouting "fire". It´s like shouting "pretzel" and the safty mechanisms in place treating it AS IF it was "fire".

Hell, just in terms of self-interest, its a bad idea. The boy in this story is fortunate that things didn't turn out worse for him. He wouldn't be the first innocent person in the news to be beaten or shot by cops if things had gone just a little worse.

Civil disobedience carries a risk. This just means that his reward should be even bigger.